Even law abiding citizens don't like to be economically disadvantaged particularly if neither they nor the country that they are loyal to and love won't get the peace that supposedly they would get in return for unilateral withdrawal. And worse, they would actually get more violence in return from the Arabs.Originally Posted by watOn
You know watOn, unlike some people on this forum (and elsewhere), I actually respect Ehud Barak. I actually think that he had no choice but to offer the peace deal that he offered Arafat in 2001. I also think that he had to unilaterally withdraw from Lebanon. Why? Because he had to give peace a chance. But he should now know better. His sacrifices did not bear fruit and they actually backfired. He brought violence, extreme violence onto the heads of Israelis in return, not peace. Only subsequent firm action by successive Israeli leaders brought the situation under control. Not Barak's gestures. So he should have learnt from those outcomes. Wasn't Einstein who said that the first sign of madness is to repeatedly do the same things while expecting different outcomes?Interestingly I am not the only one advocating this: ....
I rather side with the sentiments of Gideon Sa'ar and Danny Dayan (your own quote) ...
Also responding to Barak's comments, Education Minister Gideon Sa'ar severely criticized the defense minister, saying that his "position did not represent the government's position, one that is in a clear minority both in the government and in the coalition."
"It's strange how some people are willing to toy with such a dangerous notion after the utter failure of [Israel's] unilateral disengagement from the Gaza Strip," Sa'ar added.
In another response to Barak's comment, the head of the Yesha Settlement Council Danny Dayan said that "anyone speaking about a unilateral withdrawal from the West Bank seven years after the catastrophe of the disengagement is a lost cause."
"Barak has learned nothing from his own mistake in Lebanon and from [former Prime Minister Ariel] Sharon's in Gaza. The 94-MK coalition needs to be used to bolster Israel, not to weaken it."Ok, we disagree on this one too. With good will on both sides, they could have a workable sovereign state of their own. But like I said, and you keep on ignoring my point, even if you are right, they could rejoin Jordan (instead of Israel). It would make much more sense because Jordan already has a large Palestinian population, the Jordanians are fellow Arabs and fellow Muslims. That would work much better for all sides unless their real aim is the destruction of Israel as a Jewish state. In which case, becoming part of Jordan would not suit them. But if that's the case, why should we, you and I care?Originally Posted by watOn
Look watOn, I already acknowledged that my position carries risks too but IMO, it is a smaller risk than what you advocate.Originally Posted by watOn
My problem with your position is that you seem to feel that EVERYTHING is up to Israel. That Israel should think for the Arabs too. Look watOn, the Palestinian Arabs are adults. They have been offered two comprehensive peace deals which would have given them their own state on 97% of the West Bank, just in the last decade. Instead of accepting, they chose the path of violence (as always) and no compromise. And it's still not too late to get a similar deal, even if not with Netanyahu, but now the onus is on them to take the initiative. They really need to bite the bullet (pardon the pun) and show that they really do want peace. Take a leaf out of Sadat's book and declare openly that they are prepared to reconize Israel as the nation state for and of the Jewish people and that they no longer demand the right of return. I believe that if Abbas would do that, Netanyahu too would be forced to make concessions. Otherwise he would lose the next elections (which are about 1 year away) and his successor would compromise.
But if Abbas continues on his current non compromising path, he will cause his people to miss this opportunity too and who should be to blame for that? Everybody else but not them? Give me a break already ...
Tell me watOn, were you, yes YOU, ever offered opportunities and you made the mistake of ignoring those opportunities? I know I am guilty and I am sure you too made the same mistake. Who did you blame when you realised your mistake? Who did hou expect to fix up the mess? Surely not someone else? Surely you blamed yourself and you had to deal with your own mess, NO?! In the same way, If the Palestinians keep on making their usual mistake of not willing to compromise, they will have to deal with their own mess at the end, not Israel. So whether the land that they would have would constitute a viable state or not, Israel will NOT be the one who would pick up the pieces for them by making them Israeli citizens. The Palestinian Arabs would have to deal with THEIR own mess. And if they would choose the violent path again, Israel can dish it out at least as well as they can so that won't be a viable solution for them.