Proposal: Jews, Muslims to Split Temple Mount Prayer

[Reffo]

sharonbn

Here is my last attempt to put some perspective about the words in my first post that seem to upset you so much.
Yes, a left winger like Moshe Dayan had the greatest responsibility for adopting that policy of letting the Waqf dictate that there should be no Jewish prayers at the Temple Mount. And yes, I think he made a mistake for pushing that policy. But no, I do NOT hate Moshe Dayan for it because he was only human and humans make mistakes. But Dayan also did many things right and there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that whatever he did, he had Israel's best interests at his heart. That's why I don't hate him for any mistakes that he may have made.

As for the sarcasm in my first post (yes it WAS sarcasm, sharonbn), please don't pretend that leftists don't accuse us right wingers of lack of humanity and even racism. Yes, even leftists like you sharonbn. So I thought it was a good context to remind you of that. In the context of banning Jewish prayers at Judaism's holiest site. Because that too smacks of inhumanity but the silence of left wingers in general about the ban on freedom of worship for Jews (those who want to pray there) is deafening.

[dayag]

Let's get back to talking about the actual issues and not each other. Thanks!

[Reffo]

Let's get back to talking about the actual issues and not each other. Thanks!

I thought in my post above I was talking about the history of this issue, as well as responding to sharonbn's accusations about "my hate filled" post.

In any case, I am all for your suggestion but it takes two to tango.

[sharonbn]

Moshe Dayan, and indeed much of labor party leaders at the time (not incl' PM Levy Eshkol), were as much "leftists" as Bibi Netanyahu, or Ariel Sharon, or Menachem Begin. They wholeheartedly believed in "greater" Israel and all that...
He simply followed the Israeli (and int'l) law of protecting holy sites.

but I DO NOT want to get into another futile historical debate with Reffo, so let's drop it.

[Reffo]

Mapai was not a leftist party? Interesting ...

He simply followed the Israeli (and int'l) law of protecting holy sites

Prohibiting Jews, those Jews who want to, from praying at Judaism's holiest site is international law? Interesting ...

[sharonbn]

Mapai was leftist in its social-economic policy, not in its diplomatic one.
What we call "left wing" today (two state solution based on green line borders) was radical left back in the "glorious" days before 1973...

in 1967 (and indeed to this date), the temple mount was a Islamic holy site, with mosques and Islamic temples on it. Jews were allowed to visit the site but not to pray there.

[dayag]

Mapai was not a leftist party? Interesting ...

Prohibiting Jews, those Jews who want to, from praying at Judaism's holiest site is international law? Interesting ...

I was going to ask the same question.

[Reffo]

Mapai was leftist in its social-economic policy, not in its diplomatic one.
What we call "left wing" today (two state solution based on green line borders) was radical left back in the "glorious" days before 1973...

True and in those days Moshe Dayan was part of Mapai which was most definitely leftist even if leftists in those days were less prepared to gamble with Israel's security. I guess that's why the Israeli voters were more prepared to vote for leftist parties in those days.

in 1967 (and indeed to this date), the temple mount was a Islamic holy site, with mosques and Islamic temples on it. Jews were allowed to visit the site but not to pray there.

It was and still is Judaism's holiest site so Jews (those who want to) should have been and still should be allowed to pray somewhere on that site. Jewish prayers are not a desecration of Muslim holy sites and I am not aware of any international law which says that people should not be allowed to pray in sites that they consider holy. Even if other religious groups consider that site holy.

So Dayan did what he did not because of International laws, nor Israeli laws. He did it because he wanted to stop Arab nationalists from exploiting the issue to incite "the mobs" using religious supremacist sentiments.

[Sylvia]

"What we call "left wing" today (two state solution based on green line borders) was radical left back in the "glorious" days before 1973"

What did you think they meant by "Partition" if not two states? That's the foundation of the State and mainstream as early as the 1930s.

On the leftist side, there were those like Yehuda Magnes who wanted a bi-national State (one State) and even asked the US to impose economic sanctions on Israel with the founding of the state. In addition, there were the rightwingers so-called the Canaanites who also wanted a one state for all.

What we see today are only (badly) recycled old ideas. The only thing that has ever produced results are negotiations, and it was only after negotiations and Sadat visit in the 70s that they started talking about "autonomy" for Palestinians. It wasn't done before that because the "enemy" were 23 Arab countries.
Context's a bitch.

[Reffo]

"What we call "left wing" today (two state solution based on green line borders) was radical left back in the "glorious" days before 1973"

What did you think they meant by "Partition" if not two states? That's the foundation of the State and mainstream as early as the 1930s.

On the leftist side, there were those like Yehuda Magnes who wanted a bi-national State (one State) and even asked the US to impose economic sanctions on Israel with the founding of the state. In addition, there were the rightwingers so-called the Canaanites who also wanted a one state for all.

What we see today are only (badly) recycled old ideas. The only thing that has ever produced results are negotiations, and it was only after negotiations and Sadat visit in the 70s that they started talking about "autonomy" for Palestinians. It wasn't done before that because the "enemy" were 23 Arab countries.
Context's a bitch.

Well said Sylvia.

I should have reminded sharonbn of those facts too. But frankly, some on the left nowdays have managed to bamboozle even people like me to forget that the Jewish people accepted the UN partition proposal in 1947. The Arabs were the ones to reject what indeed was the original two state solution.