All about Fear

Twister · 02-12-2002, 04:16 AM

Violence is the most recognizeable sign of fear.
Fear is what this long war is all about. There is just no trust from all sides. Palestinians don't trust Israeli's and the other way around. And why should they? Palestinians think that Israeli's don't want peace and Israeli's think the same of the Palestinians. And honoustly, I think both sides like war. They enjoy living and murdering for their own country, they are just too proud. The power of the blue and white flag of Israel lives in the Israel hearts and the black, white, green and red in the hearts of the Palestinians. And they're both afraid of losing. It's a naieve thought that war -and warfeelings- is the solution in this matter. If Arafat is in power to stop the terrorist-actions, he should do so. Likewise, Israel should retreat all military units. AND THEN START TALKING PEACE. If Sharon starts with retreating, the rest of the world would consider him the most wise and strongest of both. If Arafat stops all terrorist activity, he's the hero. And if there are people who do not agree, they should think of what more important for them: their country or their life. And if they choose their country, let's go to a real dilemma: your country or the world.

**NewsGuy** · 02-12-2002, 08:16 AM

Twister,

"Violence is the most recognizeable sign of fear."

There are many causes for violence, like criminal or random or self-defense, religious extremism, or even just plain insanity . Why are you jumping to the concluson of fear?

"And they're both afraid of losing. It's a naieve thought that war -and warfeelings- is the solution in this matter. If Arafat is in power to stop the terrorist-actions, he should do so. Likewise, Israel should retreat all military units. AND THEN START TALKING PEACE."

I have noticed that many Europeans are maybe more focused on the philosophy and less focused on the reality.

I think that everyone agrees that if the sides wouldn't fight, then of course there wouldn't be any fighting.

This may be a true, but it has no relation to the facts of the conflict, which is that for nearly fifty years the Arabs have started 5 wars to try to destroy Israel and mass murder all Jews living there. In the past decade there have been peace talks and negotiations, and in all cases, Israel demanded only an end to terrorism, and the Arabs refused this simple demand, and so the fighting goes on.

You see, it's not like some civilized dispute beween Sweden and Denmark, for example, where everyone writes nice letters and makes some nice speeches, then everyone shakes hands and it's all over.

In the Middle East, there exists an Arab culture, which is poverty-stricken, with a high amount of illiteracy, overpopulation, public corruption, Islamic extremism and brutal dictatorships. So this makes the entire framework of the conflict very different from what you're accustomed to, and unfortunately, the solution isn't as easy as saying that "everyone should just stop fighting"

"If Sharon starts with retreating, the rest of the world would consider him the most wise and strongest of both. If Arafat stops all terrorist activity, he's the hero."

You may be surprised to know that Sharon has withdrawn Israeli troops from Palestinian-controlled areas several times in the past year alone. In each occasion, Arafat only increased the Arab terrorism.

watcher · 02-12-2002, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Twister
...And honoustly, I think both sides like war. They enjoy living and murdering for their own country, they are just too proud. The power of the blue and white flag of Israel lives in the Israel hearts and the black, white, green and red in the hearts of the Palestinians. And they're both afraid of losing. It's a naieve thought that war -and warfeelings- is the solution in this matter...

If you feel Israel want's war you must consider the history books... Is it a war hungry nation that has so many countless millions of citizens mass murdered at the hands of soldiers in the various countries Israel has been shipped to? Is it a war hungry country who bent over backwards for these foriegners in the borders of Israel to achieve peace while still being slaughtered? Is it a war hungry nation whose topmost word is Shalom which means much more than peace? Also there's what Newsguy brought up about the arabs... what happened to them? do you know?
Not many history books there in amsterdam?

No not so fearful in Israel too used to being preyed upon by the war hungry... Just slowing down the slaughter of Israel still waiting for the day when peace arrives.

Twister · 02-12-2002, 11:46 PM

In any newspaper in Europe of the last few weeks, one can read issues about the war around Israel. There is too many recent information so the common European doesn't read those newspaper-articles anymore, they don't care about what happens and lose track of the reality. "If they would just stop, then it's all over" is the dominant paradigm here.
Thanx for your reactions. I'll go read history books (I think they exist here) and I'll be back with an other simple solution....

I'll be back

Twister

**NewsGuy** · 02-15-2002, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by Twister
There is too many recent information so the common European doesn't read those newspaper-articles anymore, they don't care about what happens and lose track of the reality.

Well said, Twister.

watcher · 02-19-2002, 02:37 PM

Twister · 02-28-2002, 12:43 AM

Don't know if any of you ever visit this thread any more but on my tour of duty (learning and studying about the issue) I foud 2 sites you should see:

This one is of the Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace. It contains a study about Palestinian schoolbooks. Under 'reports'.

And this one made me sick. It's Palestinian propaganda and it is ONLY FOR PEOPLE ABOVE 18 YEARS AND WHO HAD BREAKFAST ALREADY. BECAUSE IT'S MADE BY PEOPLE WITH SICK MINDS.

victot · 02-28-2002, 03:19 AM

whoa, that second slide show you linked us to really gave a stupendous view of the complexeties involved in this situation, the photos were a very fair and accurate representation of what is going on there, and the whole thing did not unreasonably villafy israel with its sarcastic cynisism. I mean people in the israeli army, they see children playing, and they say, let's kill them! they're a good target! (cough, cough suicide bomber)
the whole thing was so true-to-life, accurate and fair, that i feel the artform of showing out of context photos with sarcastic comments from people who have everythign to gain by overly villafying their enemy, explaining what's going on is the most true-to-life artform there is!

-everyday, just miles away from thier houses, the israeli government puts guns and bombs into the hands of ordinairy men and women, and then teaches them to fight and kill.
the israeli government calls it "the army" but a more alarmest name for it would be the KILLBOT FACTORY!!!!

**NewsGuy** · 02-28-2002, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by Twister
Don't know if any of you ever visit this thread any more but on my tour of duty (learning and studying about the issue) I foud 2 sites you should see:

This one is of the Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace. It contains a study about Palestinian schoolbooks. Under 'reports'.

And this one made me sick. It's Palestinian propaganda and it is ONLY FOR PEOPLE ABOVE 18 YEARS AND WHO HAD BREAKFAST ALREADY. BECAUSE IT'S MADE BY PEOPLE WITH SICK MINDS.

Thanks for hese good links, Twister.

Although they are from opposite points of view, the first link you provided which shows the hatred and incitement to violence that happens in palestinians schools is exactly what causes the gruesome results shown in your second link.

It is a very big problem that the Palestinians treat their children like garbage and force them to go out and throw firebombs in an attempt to murder Israeli soldiers, who then respond by defending their lives.

The Israelimposition is that "Palestinian children are sent into the streets to throw rocks, firebombs, and even grenades at Israeli soldiers. They are taught in their schools and mosques to hate Israelis and Jews. They are urged by television advertisements to "drop your toys and take up arms". They are trained in special summer camps to be "holy warriors" in the Jihad against Israel and the Jews. It is no surprise then that they are among the casualties in the wake of violent clashes between Palestinian mobs and Israeli soldiers...

understanding the propaganda value of well-publicized child casualties to their political cause, the Palestinian Authority actively encourages the participation of children in violence. It has even taken to providing transportation for children to violent flashpoints. Armed Palestinian policemen and members of the Fatah militia, the Tanzim, often stand just behind this human shield of juvenile 'martyrs' and direct gunfire at Israeli soldiers, knowing they can further exploit the children's wounds for their propaganda purposes, should Israeli soldiers have to defend themselves."

I am truly very sorry for the poor Palestinian children whose parents hate them so much so as to send them out to participate in dangerous violence.