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Thread: Oy Va Voy!!!!

  1. #1
    Senior Member Aliyah1995's Avatar
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    Oy Va Voy!!!!

    Read the article and the title of this thread will become self evident:

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...346942,00.html

    Coalition deal: Livni to serve as justice minister; head peace talks
    Nearly month after elections, PM finalizes first coalition deal; Hatnua leader to get justice portfolio, be in charge of peace talks with Palestinians
    Yuval Karni
    Published: 02.19.13, 17:53 / Israel News



    Nearly a month after the national elections, Likud-Beiteinu has finally sealed its first coalition agreement: Hatnua Chairwoman Tzipi Livni finalized a coalition agreement with Likud-Beiteinu on Tuesday. According to the agreement Livni will serve as justice minister in Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's third government and will also head the Israeli negotiation team during any future peace talks with the Palestinians. In addition, Livni will be a member of the prime minister's inner cabinet.

    Netanyahu will supervise over the negotiations, and any draft agreement will require the government's approval.

    Related stories:
    Likud: Bennet will bring about leftist gov't
    Livni returns to politics, unveils new party
    Yesh Atid's Piron: Alliance with Bennett 'apolitical'

    Fellow Hatnua member Amir Peretz, a former defense minister, will apparently receive the Environmental Protection portfolio. However, there is a small chance that Amram Mitzna, who is placed second on Hatnua's Knesset roster, will serve as Environmental Protection minister.



    First coalition deal. Livni and Netanyahu (Archive photo: Yaron Brener)

    The agreement between Livni and Netanyahu was reached without the knowledge of Hatnua faction members. Haim Ramon, Livni's political ally, was not informed of the deal.

    The PM and Livni are expected to release a short statement on the agreement at around 8 pm.

    According to the agreement, following the establishment of the next government, a team of ministers, headed by Netanyahu, will be set up to oversee the peace process. Livni, as well as the next defense and foreign ministers, will be a part of the team.

    The agreement states that once the government is established, "the prime minister and justice minister will work to resume the diplomatic process. In case an agreement is reached, it will be brought to the government and Knesset and, if the law requires, it will be put to a referendum."


    Livni is the first leader from the Left-Center bloc to sign a coalition agreement with Likud-Beiteinu. Her party won only six seats in the January 22 elections. Following the vote, Livni vowed not to join the government without other Left-Center factions.

    "Hatnua was the only party to wave the diplomatic flag in the elections," she said at the time, adding that the party would agree to be a part of the next government only if it will "lead the diplomatic process, as we promised during the election campaign."

    The 28 days given Netanyahu to form a government will be over in less than two weeks, but apart from the deal with Livni, no progress has been noted in the coalition negotiations.

    Sources within the Likud-Beiteinu negotiation team said that the PM is planning a breakthrough in the next few days so that agreements can be reached with the coalition partners before an extension is required.

    Concurrently, Lapid and Bennett stated that negotiations have stalled. "It's been a week since any significant negotiations have taken place," said Bennett.

    "Habayit Hayehudi has time, Israel doesn't. Our faction is interested to be in the government to serve, and we're interested in joining Netanyahu. The moment they decide to negotiate I believe an agreement can be reached within 24 hours."
    Too bad there is not a VOMIT icon!!!!
    "Study astronomy and physics if you desire to comprehend the relation between the world and G-d's management of it." - RaMBaM (Maimonides), Guide For The Perplexed

  2. #2
    Full Member pelsar's Avatar
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    Re: Oy Va Voy!!!!

    and this is just for fun

    Israel will award President Barack Obama the country's Presidential Medal of Distinction during his upcoming visit.
    Israeli President Shimon Peres' office said Monday that Obama will be recognized for his "unique and significant contribution to strengthening the State of Israel and the security of its citizens."



    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...#ixzz2LMlr1FJK


    Obama is getting a medal from us?...given that he's had a hand in the toppling of Kaddafi and the subsequent new weapons in gaza, the toppling of Mubarark and the MB taking over Egypt, Iran still playing hide and seek with their nuclear bombs to be, Syrian got the "fever" (babie assad should have listened to his dad, hama 1982)...

    and we're just so proud to give the guy a medal...isn't this the same guy who got the noble peace prize after like a day in office? the same guy who goes around the world assassinating anybody he feels like it?

  3. #3
    Senior Member Aliyah1995's Avatar
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    Re: Oy Va Voy!!!!

    In all fairness, it was after 11 days....We need to stay as accurate as possible with our accountings
    "Study astronomy and physics if you desire to comprehend the relation between the world and G-d's management of it." - RaMBaM (Maimonides), Guide For The Perplexed

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    Senior Member NewsGuy's Avatar
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    Re: Oy Va Voy!!!!

    This isn't great news. It means that the coalition will be weaker than necessary. I would be amazed if Livni stays in for more than a year - assuming the coalition will even last that long.

    But the next step is for Shas to join the coalition. Or at a least, that's what the papers are reporting today, and Shas is expected to be joined by United Torah Judaism, meaning that only a about half of the religious students will join the IDF over the next 5 years.

    This weird and fragile coalition is the result of the stubbornness and lack of political experience of Yesh Atid's leaders who, together with Bennet's party, will have the great "honor" of sitting in the opposition powerless despite their enormous popularity. This is, of course, unless Lapid and Bennet come to their senses. Otherwise, Yesh Atid (there is a future) will be named Ein Atid (there is no future).
    "All we are saying is give peace a chance." - John Lennon

  5. #5
    Full Member pelsar's Avatar
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    Re: Oy Va Voy!!!!

    ok
    this is my take:
    1) voting in neophytes (Atid) may make one feel good, but its never a good idea, experience counts, even bad ones (one reason the IDF did not sack its officers after Lebanon 2006, was precisely because of that-we learn from our mistakes and successes and it makes us better professionals)

    2) there is no "peace talks" with the PA....we can hardly make peace with a dictatorship who's weak and may have their own arab spring- i believe everybody knows this in power, including livni

    3) we dont want all the hard core religious in the army....nachal haridi is not much of a fighting unit. If they come in numbers somebodies culture is going to have to change, either the IDFs or the incoming religious with their myriad of rules and interpretations and powerful rabbis (good by to the skilled females soldiers and good bye to "red cheese")

    4) it looks like its the classic with right wing and religious parties in, left out..(vs left in with religious and right out)

  6. #6
    Senior Member Aliyah1995's Avatar
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    Re: Oy Va Voy!!!!

    NewsGuy-

    But the next step is for Shas to join the coalition. Or at a least, that's what the papers are reporting today, and Shas is expected to be joined by United Torah Judaism, meaning that only a about half of the religious students will join the IDF over the next 5 years.
    Please G-d NO!!!! At any rate: 31+11+7 = 49. Bibi would still need another 11. If he doesn't get the other 11 from Yesh Atid or Bayit HaYehudi, then where will they come from? Yakimovich already said no. Meretz will DEFINITELY refuse. They are true to their ideology and, for that, I respect them (unlike the Livni, Shas et al that would sell their own mothers for a Ministerial position). So, there is some silver lining. Bibi will need at least Yesh Atid or Bayit HaYehudi (if not both).

    It will be interesting to see how this pans out. I might have another day off from work sooner than I thought
    "Study astronomy and physics if you desire to comprehend the relation between the world and G-d's management of it." - RaMBaM (Maimonides), Guide For The Perplexed

  7. #7
    Senior Member Aliyah1995's Avatar
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    Re: Oy Va Voy!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by pelsar View Post
    ok
    this is my take:
    1) voting in neophytes (Atid) may make one feel good, but its never a good idea, experience counts, even bad ones (one reason the IDF did not sack its officers after Lebanon 2006, was precisely because of that-we learn from our mistakes and successes and it makes us better professionals)

    2) there is no "peace talks" with the PA....we can hardly make peace with a dictatorship who's weak and may have their own arab spring- i believe everybody knows this in power, including livni

    3) we dont want all the hard core religious in the army....nachal haridi is not much of a fighting unit. If they come in numbers somebodies culture is going to have to change, either the IDFs or the incoming religious with their myriad of rules and interpretations and powerful rabbis (good by to the skilled females soldiers and good bye to "red cheese")

    4) it looks like its the classic with right wing and religious parties in, left out..(vs left in with religious and right out)
    1) There is something to what you say. But, on the other hand, nobody lives forever. We need some young blood in the Knesset. Recycling politicians gets kind of nauseating after a while. I think we should give Lapid a chance (granted not to be PM mind you, but to be a minister of some sort).

    2) Agreed

    3) Don't know. I have friends who served in Nachal Haredi and it was hardly a slacker unit. Also, about 60% of the unit was really kippah seruga (knitted kippa) and they did everything any of the other infantry units did. I do agree that the "sucker" movement better be careful or they might actually get what they wish for (i.e. having Haredi officers over them). That being said, the burden of security/national service needs to be balanced more fairly, not to mention integrating into the work force.

    4) See my last post. The numbers don't add up. Likud/Beitenu+Livni+Shas+UTJ=49. Bibi will need either Labor or Yesh Atid and/or Bayit Hayehudi. So you could very well have left and religious in the coalition together.
    "Study astronomy and physics if you desire to comprehend the relation between the world and G-d's management of it." - RaMBaM (Maimonides), Guide For The Perplexed

  8. #8
    Full Member pelsar's Avatar
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    Re: Oy Va Voy!!!!

    so what do we get...a coalition that consists of almost every party?.......great govt system, we got going on in this country.

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    Senior Member NewsGuy's Avatar
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    Re: Oy Va Voy!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aliyah1995 View Post
    NewsGuy-



    Please G-d NO!!!! At any rate: 31+11+7 = 49. Bibi would still need another 11. If he doesn't get the other 11 from Yesh Atid or Bayit HaYehudi, then where will they come from? Yakimovich already said no. Meretz will DEFINITELY refuse. They are true to their ideology and, for that, I respect them (unlike the Livni, Shas et al that would sell their own mothers for a Ministerial position). So, there is some silver lining. Bibi will need at least Yesh Atid or Bayit HaYehudi (if not both).

    It will be interesting to see how this pans out. I might have another day off from work sooner than I thought
    I forget the exact math, but I read a few days ago that there was some speculation that Bibi might form a "minority" coalition with 57 mandates. The rationale would be that the Arab parties would not join Yesh Atid/Yisrael Beiteinu in voting. So even with 57, Bibi could rule. I think that's a terrible idea, but maybe it's one that's being floated to pressure Yesh Atid to drop some of their more inflexible demands and join a wide coalition.

    I get the impression that Netanyahu is expecting some major shifts in the Middle East and knows that he will need very broad domestic support for the concessions that he will be forced to make by the Obama regime. On the other hand, I would be shocked if any of Bibi's so-called political allies would be dependable in a pinch. Every politician is just out for themself and the money they hope to extort from the Israeli taxpayer. Sorry, but that's been the track record for many decades.
    "All we are saying is give peace a chance." - John Lennon

  10. #10
    Senior Member Aliyah1995's Avatar
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    Re: Oy Va Voy!!!!

    I also remember hearing about Bibi being able to form a coalition with 57 seats. I DOUBT that is what he wants though. Having a coalition that is about as strong as a house of cards would not be worth it for any leader IMO. I think, one way or another, Bibi will need at least Yeish Atid or Bayit Hayehudi. Today I read in the Hebrew version of the Jerusalem Post (sorry no link) that Bennett said "we will not enter [into the coalition] without Lapid", so the bond between Bennett and Lapid seems to be holding up for now. I would hope that some of the more hawkish members of the Likud (Danny Danon, Moshe Feiglin, etc.) would threaten to bolt if Bibi/Livni even thought about kicking more Jews out of their homes (especially from the blocs).

    We shall see....
    "Study astronomy and physics if you desire to comprehend the relation between the world and G-d's management of it." - RaMBaM (Maimonides), Guide For The Perplexed

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