Takeo's peace plan suggestion (ARCHIVE)

[takeo]

If I would be prime minister of Israel i could bring peace within one month, and unlike Sharon keep my promise.

first step: talks with Arafat in Jerusalem about the preparation of a peace-conference in Europe or Washington, with lots of international donors. Israel would withdraw its forces from all the territories belonging to the PA . Make your plans public about your intentions to stop all occupation.

second: stop terrorism: expose the plan to stop the occupation and secretly ask the approval of Hamas, PFLP and Jihad. Probably only Jihad, and perhaps hamas would refuse. If they refuse than joint actions between PA-police, israeli army and secret service, in cooperation with international forces (US and European) to dismantle all organisations who still commit violence and refuse to benefit from an amnesty if they give in their weapons (as happened in northern ireland). This would most probably make an end to at least 90% of the terrorist activities.

thirth: permanent withrawel from israeli forces and install international troops and protection to protect the borders of israel and the remaining colonists.

forth: peace-conforence in which israel offers a full independant palestinian state and promise to take in a certain number of refugees (not more than 1.5 million). in return Arafat should sign a peace-treaty with Israel, recognise it, promiise security-cooperation, and allows continued international presence at the borders. Most likely Arafat would accept. Jerusalem would be divided and the holy sites in Eastern Jerusalem brought under international protection and maintained by a board of jewish and Islamic clerics. Europe and the US will promise to take in the rest of the refugees and pay for the resettlements of jewish settlers and palestinian refugees within Israel.

Separate negotiations with Israel and Libanon: the Holan-heights and pre-1967 border in return for a peace-treaty and recognition of Israel. Syria promises to keep the Golan as a demilitarised region. Other Arab countries would be very tempted to recognise Israel as well and do business with it. Israel would recover very fast and instead of being a military middle-eastern power it would be an economic tiger of the middle-East.

Arafat and the PLO would be treated as heroes for bringing liberation (as in 1993) and the moderates would easily win the election.

All this is very realistic and it's a pity for te whole region Israel's leaders are such extremists.

[watcher]

You said, “If I would be prime minister of Israel i could bring peace within one month, and unlike Sharon keep my promise.
first step: talks with Arafat in Jerusalem about the preparation of a peace-conference in Europe or Washington, with lots of international donors. Israel would withdraw its forces from all the territories belonging to the PA . Make your plans public about your intentions to stop all occupation.”

Sharon can keep his promise but it goes both ways... “palestine” can’t keep up it’s end of the bargain, they’re acting as if they don’t desire a state just they way they were before Israel returned home. Israel does not occupy the surrounding countries so bringing up occupation of territories belonging to the “PA” is pointless.

You said, “second: stop terrorism: expose the plan to stop the occupation and secretly ask the approval of Hamas, PFLP and Jihad. Probably only Jihad, and perhaps hamas would refuse. If they refuse than joint actions between PA-police, israeli army and secret service, in cooperation with international forces (US and European) to dismantle all organisations who still commit violence and refuse to benefit from an amnesty if they give in their weapons (as happened in northern ireland). This would most probably make an end to at least 90% of the terrorist activities.”

It’s up to “palestine” to stop their terrorism and occupation in Israel, joint actions with the“PA” police is ridiculous they proven themselves worthless in protection of national interests.

You said, “thirth: permanent withrawel from israeli forces and install international troops and protection to protect the borders of israel and the remaining colonists.”

What withdrawal of Israeli forces? From their own land of Israel? If “palestinians” return to their homes in their countries there would be no need for international forces, although I doubt the violence would diminish Internat’l forces would not help much.

Also you said, “forth: peace-conforence in which israel offers a full independant palestinian state and promise to take in a certain number of refugees (not more than 1.5 million). in return Arafat should sign a peace-treaty with Israel, recognise it, promiise security-cooperation, and allows continued international presence at the borders. Most likely Arafat would accept. Jerusalem would be divided and the holy sites in Eastern Jerusalem brought under international protection and maintained by a board of jewish and Islamic clerics. Europe and the US will promise to take in the rest of the refugees and pay for the resettlements of jewish settlers and palestinian refugees within Israel.
Separate negotiations with Israel and Libanon: the Holan-heights and pre-1967 border in return for a peace-treaty and recognition of Israel. Syria promises to keep the Golan as a demilitarised region”.

I Don’t know the exact count of the refugees still out there that are of Israel in the end of this diaspora, if “palestinians” so desire to create their state they can start a huge one in any of their other countries if not create a state in each of those countries they’re from., Israel would recognize each and every one. They could also fully enjoy their holy sites instead of pilfering and pillaging what belongs to Israel.

Finally you said, “Other Arab countries would be very tempted to recognise Israel as well and do business with it. Israel would recover very fast and instead of being a military middle-eastern power it would be an economic tiger of the middle-East.
Arafat and the PLO would be treated as heroes for bringing liberation (as in 1993) and the moderates would easily win the election.
All this is very realistic and it's a pity for te whole region Israel's leaders are such extremists."

We see how the other countries recognize Israel, and how they do their business.
It’s impossible to view terrorists as heroes unless by being a terrorist or supporter of terrorism.
All this is reality, and it’s a pity the whole greater region is filled with Islamic extremists.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by takeo

first step: talks with Arafat in Jerusalem about the preparation of a peace-conference in Europe or Washington, with lots of international donors. Israel would withdraw its forces from all the territories belonging to the PA . Make your plans public about your intentions to stop all occupation.

second: stop terrorism: expose the plan to stop the occupation and secretly ask the approval of Hamas, PFLP and Jihad. Probably only Jihad, and perhaps hamas would refuse. If they refuse than joint actions between PA-police, israeli army and secret service, in cooperation with international forces (US and European) to dismantle all organisations who still commit violence and refuse to benefit from an amnesty if they give in their weapons (as happened in northern ireland). This would most probably make an end to at least 90% of the terrorist activities.


All this is very realistic and it's a pity for te whole region Israel's leaders are such extremists.

Lots of interesting points Takeo. I'm impressed. It's a good plan, although I personally don't agree with a good part of it.

You should know that all the steps you suggest in your first and second points were already taken by Israel in the last decade.

The main problem is that things get stuck in your second point, because the Palestinians have never stopped terrorism. That is what derailed the various peace plans that were agreed on.

There was never a mechanism in place to penalize the Palestinians for never keeping their part of the bargain.

I will respond to your other points in the next day or so.

[victot]

that's a good plan more or less;
but the refegee thing is no good... israel would like no longer be israel if they took in so many refugees...
i dont suppose you could get iraq to compensate all the iraqi jews property it siezed way back when... heh
but the refugee thing, it's unfortunate, maybe they could be compensated or something else instead... but israel should remain mainly a jewish state, i think

[JustSad]

Sounds good Takeo.
But i have one vital addition. Israel should of course dismantle the jewish settlements in the occupied territories. These villages are in fact illegal and forbidden by several UN-resoltutions.

[takeo]

watcher, if you consider that Israel doesnt occupy any territories and that all palestinians are just foreign squatters, than further discussion is pointless.
Victot, Israel will remain a predominantly Jewish country, even after the refugees came back. Even if all the refugees would return (very doubtfull) they would still largely be outnumbered by the Jewish Israeli.
The question of Jews in Arab countries could eventually be linked to the question of returning palestinians. In fact those two historical events were always linked together.
Justsad, i agree with you that the Israeli settlements were illegal to all international conventions and should be removed to territory inside pre-1967 Israel(as i stated in "my" plan), however with mutual compromise some solution can be found that some settlements close to the borders of Israel could be incorporated(in return for some predominantly Palestinian inhabited areas in Israel near the border).
Newsguy, i'm really impressed too that you are not too critical to such a plan, didn't you say that any negotiation with Arafat is out of the question and that Westbank and Gaza belong to Israel? Anyway it prooves that you are more reasonable than many others on this board.
However the Oslo-agreements were not exactly the same (too vague and no penalisation on BOTH sides what should happen if one of the two parties don't commit themselves to previous commitments, which Netanyahu abused to slow down or even block the process) . That is why international presence is very important, they can force Arafat to act and if he can't they could do it themselves, international military presence will also force Israel to hold to its commitments, whatever government is elected. Besides, i think, in fact i'm sure, if israel retreats completely from the occupied territories and a solution for the refugees is found, 95% of the Palestinians wouldnt have any more reason or the will to fight Israel, they would be more interested in reestablishing their lifes in this improoved climate. Hamas and other groups would have the choice: cooperate or being destroyed by the PA (and/or international/israeli troops), and few people would care. (in 1993 you could see as well new palestinian hope and the popularity of hamas was less than 10%, only 10% abstained from the vote as hamas asked).

[victot]

err, the refugee thing i still think is no good... unless very few refugees returned, its no good.
also, i dont understand takeo, what do you mean by the arab jews could be linked to the palestinian thing?
i heard that when iraq wouldnt let its jews take their property with them when they left persecution to escape to israel, the overall money they lost, equals the financial distruction of the palestinians at the hands of the israelis. i dont think it should be brushed aside, as a point...
also, i think it's quite unfair of you to call all of israel's leaders such extremists; they're dealing with people who strongly want israel to die... and are giving up land which their ancesters spent the last 2000 years praying over...
barak offered jerusalem to the palestinians, and the palestinians still revolted. do you comprehend the importance of jerusalem to judaism? do you understand the magnitude of it? if the palestinians are still going to be mad and die to kill israelis either way, why should the jewish leaders be so prompt to make deals?

[takeo]

the Jews evicted from Iraq or Morocco (and a few other countries, still many Jews still live in Morocco and a few even in Iraq) were mostly expelled after the war of 1949, after which Israel refused the refugees to return home. i don't know how many people were banned from the Arab countries, but i doubt it were more than the number of Palestinians that were banned from returning home. Anyway, if the palestinians will return as stipulated by the UN-resolutions than the other etnic cleansing should legally be reversed too(or if the Jews don't want to return compansation). I read in Le Monde Diplomatique that many Arab countries prepared to do that if Israel admits them back.
Anyway the return of the refugees is a UN-resolution and can't be denied, besides the refugee-camps will remain a problem as long as there isn't a solution and the inhabitants have no intention to go somewhere else as where they or their family were born. And it certainly won't change the Jewish majority in Israel. Creating an etnic pure state can not be a good reason to deny people the right to return.
I know the importance of Jerusalem to the Israeli people but as well to the Palestinians it is very important, that's why both the city as the religious monuments have to be divided or maintained together. The current leaders of Israel are extremists because they don't want to search a solution because they believe that the Westbank and gaza should stay with Israel (or at least a state completely military dominated by Israel WITH settlements and WITHOUT a solution for the refugees nor for Jerusalem) and that the palestinians should have no rights at all. (just read this board...). With such a vision of course there will never be peace.
(even you were labelled an Arab because you even doubted at Sharon, that is typical for extremism)
Whatever israel offered in Camp David, it was much less than required by the UN-resolutions, and despite Oslo the settlements were growing and the end of the occupation was nowhere in sight by 1999, the year palestine should declare its independance....

[NewsGuy]

"watcher, if you consider that Israel doesnt occupy any territories and that all palestinians are just foreign squatters, than further discussion is pointless."

This is true factually, but nonetheless it sadly seems that these Arab squatters will wind up with part of the Jewish homeland.


"Victot, Israel will remain a predominantly Jewish country, even after the refugees came back. Even if all the refugees would return (very doubtfull) they would still largely be outnumbered by the Jewish Israeli."

Not true. The Arabs, already plagued by overpopulation, would outnumber the Jews in about 10-15 years, at which point, I would expect a civil war to result, making the current violence between Israelis and Arabs look like nothing more than a shouting match between kids.


"The question of Jews in Arab countries could eventually be linked to the question of returning palestinians. In fact those two historical events were always linked together. "

Right, they should be linked, although I highly doubt that the Jews will ever be compensated for the Jewish property stolen by the Arab countries who ethnically cleaned their Jewish citizens.

I think that any ME resolution will only be designed to be a one-way street to hand over Jewish land to Palestinian enemies, and not to bring justice to Jews victimed by Arabs.



"didn't you say that any negotiation with Arafat is out of the question and that Westbank and Gaza belong to Israel? "

Well, Arafat is certainly a mass murderer who should be taken out and shot to benefit the entire world. But as befitting the Palestinian people, a mass murderer is exactly who best represents them at the moment.

So, if it takes dealing with Arafat to achieve a state of non-war and a total separation from the Palestinians, then I support it, having no other choice.

And certainly, the West Bank and Gaza are part of the jewish homeland and should never be handed over to the Arabs. The best solution by far would be to transfer the Palestinians back to their first palestinian state of Jordan, or any other Arab country they came from.

However, I recognize that the world being dependent on Arab oil, will force Israel to reward Arab terrorism with Jewish land, and so I need to be pragmatic and support a solution that will being an end to the death of innocent Jews (and Arabs for that matter).


But the main reasons that your plan will not work, is that I highly doubt that there will be an end to Arab terrorism, IMHO, becuase the Jihad against non-Muslims, as well as ethnic cleansing are very much admired in the Arab culture, and so, it is doubtful that progress can ever never be made until there is a major shift in the Arab culture.

Also, just as importantly, there is no situation in which millions of Arabs can be allowed to settle in Israel. They will outnumber the Israeli population in a matter of a few years and start a violent civil war that could destroy the Jewish people.

So any plan that includes the calculated destruction of Israel, by forcing millions of Palestinian enemies into its midst, cannot ever be accpeted.

[victot]

sometimes i see these arguments that israel is violating all these un resolutions and what not... though i do think un's law is important, it shouldn't be the end all determinant of what is fair, and how country's should behave. it's like, if the zionoist movement would have started up 100 years ago, it would have all been ok?
there are MANY arab countries which are almost exclusively arab...
i think it might be more racist to say that the planet earth's 13 million jews should be forced to split their only country with a people who has what... 80 million arabs? and how many arab countries?
israel represents about one 800th of the middle east... let the jews frikkin have their part of it to do as they will.
here, i got these zionism is not racism arguments from some zionism site; tell me if you think they are irrelevant or untrue:

-History has demonstrated the need to ensure Jewish security through a national homeland. Zionism recognizes that Jewishness is defined by shared origin, religion, culture and history.

-The realization of the Zionist dream is exemplified by more than four million Jews, from more than 100 countries, including dark-skinned Jews from Ethiopia, Yemen and India, who are Israeli citizens. Approximately 1,000,000 Muslim and Christian Arabs, Druze, Baha'is, Circassians and other ethnic groups also are represented in Israel's population.

-The Arab states define citizenship strictly by native parentage. It is almost impossible to become a naturalized citizen in many Arab states, especially Algeria, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Several Arab nations have laws that facilitate the naturalization of foreign Arabs, with the specific exception of Palestinians. Jordan, on the other hand, instituted its own "law of return" in 1954, according citizenship to all former residents of Palestine, except for Jews.

-The presence of thousands of black Jews in Israel is the best refutation of the calumny against Zionism. In a series of historic airlifts, labeled Moses (1984), Joshua (1985) and Solomon (1991), Israel rescued almost 42,000 members of the ancient Ethiopian Jewish community.

-To single out Jewish self-determination for condemnation is itself a form of racism. "A world that closed its doors to Jews who sought escape from Hitler's ovens lacks the moral standing to complain about Israel's giving preference to Jews," wrote noted civil rights lawyer Alan Dershowitz.


if the palestinians have control over the west bank and gaza, they'll have thier own free homeland, which they as a people can thrive in, (as long as they don't mess with israel, heh)
also, i still maintain that jerusalem really isnt that important to muslims... it has nowhere near the importance jeruslaem has to jews. i consider myself to be relatively left wing as far as the middle east situation goes... but seriously, it is unfair to equate the importance of jerusalem to Muslims with the importance of jerusalem to jews.

[takeo]

"This is true factually, but nonetheless it sadly seems that these Arab squatters will wind up with part of the Jewish homeland. "

So in fact you agree with Watcher in theory, but you're more realistic to accpet that Israel can never live in peace if it continues occupying the Westbank and gaza?
Well, that's a start, however in fact you still deny that the palestinian people lived in what is now Israel and you deny them the right as a people, the only reason why you support a peaceful solution is because you fear worldcondamnation and Arab violence. This seems like good PR for Hamas!
but the real reason why the whole world is against Israel is not Arab petrol(that has been there since the 50's) but the illegitimate occupation that was perceived by the whole world as illegal and fascist. Whatever that Jews lived there 2000 years ago and have some religious buildings there, the christians have a lot of religious buildings too in jerusalem yet they don't want to politically claim jerusalem! (they did 1000 year ago).
The fact is that the Al-aqsa mosque is since many years on the temple mount is a living testimony of the importance of jerusalem for the Muslims (and in the time it was build nobody had ever heard of zionism) . It doesn't mean that you have a religious monument there that you have the right to politically occupy it, certainly not according modern standards. fact is that Jerusalem was for many years the capital of the Palestinian people and for centuries more Palestinians live there than Jews. Of course that doesn't mean Jerusalem can exclusively be claimed by the Palestinians, western jerusalem is a recognised part of Israel, but Eastern Jerusalem is not, it has been taken by greedy Israel in 1967, the beginning of a lot of trouble.
About the question of the refugees: you agree that the Jews fleeing from Arab countries as a result of etnic cleansing should be compensated AND that the two matters are linked, yet you don't come to the logical conclusion that also Palestinians were etnically cleansed and need to have the right to return if they wish so. This is not only a un-resolution, according to the Geneva-conventions or a precondition for peace, but as well it would be justice. whatever how many Arabs there are on the world, Palestinians are a little people as well, and whereas Jews can also find safe refuge in the US, France, in fact a lot of countries where they lived for centuries, the palestinians are newcomers in the regions they fled to and are not integrated.
And yes zionism in its concept is racist, whatever the fact that Israel rescued Ethiopians (even this was a racist act, ethiopian Jews ere rescued, their Christian or Muslim neighbours could starve to death!) one has to be of the jewish race to immigrate to Israel. Just imagine the US making laws that one need to be Christian and western-European to make a chance to immigrate!
But if it was only immigration-policy, unfortunately the palestinians are no immigrants (at least not since the latest centuries or millenium) but the people who live there. In every democratic Western country (with the exception of Israel) only one principle is important to become civilian: "how long have you or your family stayed here?"
And please leave the Shoah out of this, it is not because you have been victim of a murder that you have the right to murder someone else! also the gypsies and communists and yehova-witnesses and gays, and members of the resistance etc were victim, do they all have the right to take the land of another people because of this?
Besides the idea that Pals will outnumber jews in a few decades is not true, you just have to know some math! even if they have a much higher birthrate due to poverty, once they have a higher living standard their birthrate will slow down too, as happened with the Israeli Palestinians. Any middle eastern resolution will and did condamn people who didn't act according to the Geneva-conventions and other international laws, it also condamned Hamas and co. fo attackin civilians.
the reason violence doesn't end is because israeli and some people like you, are not committed to the peace-process but only do it out of fear, and would like to reverse the clock whenever possible(as did Netanyahu). With such kind of duality the palestinians will gain nothing, and a surpressed people will turn to violence, that's just human, not especially Arab or palestinian!(i gave you dosens of examples).





"Victot, Israel will remain a predominantly Jewish country, even after the refugees came back. Even if all the refugees would return (very doubtfull) they would still largely be outnumbered by the Jewish Israeli."

Not true. The Arabs, already plagued by overpopulation, would outnumber the Jews in about 10-15 years, at which point, I would expect a civil war to result, making the current violence between Israelis and Arabs look like nothing more than a shouting match between kids.


"The question of Jews in Arab countries could eventually be linked to the question of returning palestinians. In fact those two historical events were always linked together. "

Right, they should be linked, although I highly doubt that the Jews will ever be compensated for the Jewish property stolen by the Arab countries who ethnically cleaned their Jewish citizens.

"I think that any ME resolution will only be designed to be a one-way street to hand over Jewish land to Palestinian enemies, and not to bring justice to Jews victimed by Arabs. "

This is BS, even the US signed most of the 80's and 90 resolutions/. it only wants to install international law, as it did in Indonesia and else where.




"Well, Arafat is certainly a mass murderer who should be taken out and shot to benefit the entire world. But as befitting the Palestinian people, a mass murderer is exactly who best represents them at the moment. "

arafat said exactly the same about Shaon

So, if it takes dealing with Arafat to achieve a state of non-war and a total separation from the Palestinians, then I support it, having no other choice.

And certainly, the West Bank and Gaza are part of the jewish homeland and should never be handed over to the Arabs. The best solution by far would be to transfer the Palestinians back to their first palestinian state of Jordan, or any other Arab country they came from.

"However, I recognize that the world being dependent on Arab oil, will force Israel to reward Arab terrorism with Jewish land, and so I need to be pragmatic and support a solution that will being an end to the death of innocent Jews (and Arabs for that matter).
about the etnicity of Arafat countries...
this is not completely true, as in Marocco the majority of the population is berber!
. The best solution by far would be to transfer the Palestinians back to their first palestinian state of Jordan, or any other Arab country they came from.

"However, I recognize that the world being dependent on Arab oil, will force Israel to reward Arab terrorism with Jewish land, and so I need to be pragmatic and support a solution that will being an end to the death of innocent Jews (and Arabs for that matter).
about the etnicity of Arafat countries...
this is not completely true, as in Marocco the majority of the population is berber!

Peace will only happen if israel is REALLY committing itseld to condamn the withdawel and accomplying the un-seleution,
Arafat isn't born in Morocco

[cerulean]

Originally posted by takeo
Arafat isn't born in Morocco

Of course not. He was born in Cairo.

[NewsGuy]

" the only reason why you support a peaceful solution is because you fear worldcondamnation and Arab violence. This seems like good PR for Hamas!"

No, Arab violence can be defeated quickly with a military solution. Based on that alone, Israel would not need to give away even an inch of its land.

The only factors that will unfortunately force Israel to hand over parts of the Jewish homeland to the Arabs, is European slavery to Arab oil, and the fact the Arab and Muslim countries are excellent weapons clients for Russia, and China.

These factors will make sure that large parts of the world will disregard their moral values and choose Arab oil and money over truth and justice.


"but the real reason why the whole world is against Israel is not Arab petrol(that has been there since the 50's) but the illegitimate occupation that was perceived by the whole world as illegal and fascist."

No, it is Arab oil and weapons deals, and the fact that tiny Israel is too small to provide a big enough consumer base for foreign products.

So far as I know, the Europeans, Russia and China never did anything out of moratlity alone. It was always self-interest, and today their self-interest lies with the Arabs.



"The fact is that the Al-aqsa mosque is since many years on the temple mount is a living testimony of the importance of jerusalem for the Muslims"

In Israel's history, it made two HUGE mistakes:

1. Ben Gurion let the Arab population remain inside Israel, instead of sending them back to where they belong, i.e., in Jordan and Saudi Arabia mostly.

2. Israel left the mosque standing on holy Jewish ground.

Now, Israel may pay the price forever for these mistakes.


"fact is that Jerusalem was for many years the capital of the Palestinian people and for centuries more Palestinians live there than Jews."

That has never been the case. The "Palestinians" never had ownership over any of Israel and certainly not over Jerusalem. The land always belonged to others.



"About the question of the refugees: you agree that the Jews fleeing from Arab countries as a result of etnic cleansing should be compensated AND that the two matters are linked, yet you don't come to the logical conclusion that also Palestinians were etnically cleansed and need to have the right to return if they wish so."

No, I don't come to that solution at all. Most of the Palestinians voluntarily ran away from Israel when the Arab armies in 1948 instructed all Arabs to leave so that the invading Arab armies could massacre everyone in sight without harming their brothers.

Then, a great number more of the Arabs left after Israel won the war, because they mistakenly figured that Israel would treat them the same way the Arabs treated the Jews. So, for those Arab cowards who voluntarily abandoned their homes, I see no reason to compensate them or allow them to return.

Also, I personally think that the issue of the refugees should be linked in that the Jewish refugees from Arab countries should simply stay in Israel, and the Arab refugees should stay in the Arab countries they went to, and let's call it even and move on.

And, btw - why do you think that there has never been a UN resolution to compensate the Jewish refugees who were ethnically cleansed from Arab countries? Kind of curious, no? This just shows that all these UN resolutions have always been biased against Jews, and should be disregarded completely as a mark of shame for the world.

[L@mplighterM]

Skitz!

[takeo]

How possibly can you agree with any peace-plan (and the one i proposed) if this are your opinions?

"In Israel's history, it made two HUGE mistakes:

1. Ben Gurion let the Arab population remain inside Israel, instead of sending them back to where they belong, i.e., in Jordan and Saudi Arabia mostly.

2. Israel left the mosque standing on holy Jewish ground. "

in fact this are more negev-lomplighter remarks, both fascist, utterly backwards and fundamentalist. For you too the palestinians are less than animals and shouldn't have any rights at all, you even deny that they ever lived there (of course they didn't have political power, but they lived there, as a people, even that was not allowed by Israel).
And if this is your definition of refugees, cowards, than all Jewish refugees are cowards too and in fact all refugees everywhere in the world.
Not only do this words show no mercy at all for the palestinians, you clearly don't believe in the right of human equality, human respect and human rights, you are not better than Hitler and Bin Laden, and you show that you are not at all better than Hamas, and a lot worse than Arafat, who accepts Jewish presence in the region and condams attacks on civilians. Of course if this are your positions, than any discussion is indeed senceless, than only war will remain as the viable option, a war Israel will certainly loose (and yes we are going to sell weapons to the Arabs, as long as Israel thinks Eretz israel is for the jews and the Palestinians should ****. ), it would be just too easy if only Israel got all the weapons from their dear US-friends, it was too much like that in the past and it stimulated Israel to launch the 1967 war.
And you will never be able to destroy the palestinians, unless you kill them all, so the war will go on. And sooner or later the Arab neighbours will be strong enough to interfere themselves. It would be the worst possible outcome and so much easier if some reasonable Israeli pm really believes that Palestinians have rights to and deserve their own state, not only say this for the purpose of retorics (indeed, how can i explain that you support a peace-plan and a palestinian state and some hours later call for the total genocide against the palestinians and destruction of Mosques?). Of course such reactions will provoke even more violent Arab reactions, than you can complain how barbarian the Arabs are, take even harder actions against the Arabs, these one too replying with brutal atrocities, and the circle of violence slowly destroys everything.
The UN isn't an anti-israeli body but an organisation to the principles that were embraced after the war by the people who defeated the nazi's and saved the Jewish people from nazism.
Israel time after time behaved as it was still the 19th century and colonisation and expulsion were still acceptable, so that provoked some heavy reactions, its war in 1955 even provoked hostile reactions from the US (but France, that at that time had its own colonial wars in Algeria and Vietnam, supported israel at that time)