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Thread: "Jihad" + Terror, what it means

  1. #1
    abu afak
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    "Jihad", Terror and Disinformation

    ""... "Jihad does not mean ‘holy war,’" says the IIIT flyer, which originally ran in USA Today. "Literally, jihad in Arabic means to strive, struggle and exert effort. It is a central and broad Islamic concept that includes struggle against evil inclinations within oneself, struggle to improve the quality of life in society, struggle in the battlefield for self defense or fighting against tyranny or oppression."

    This is the prevailing notion in academic circles today. Articulating the currently accepted orthodoxy, Duke University professor of Islamic studies Bruce Lawrence agreed that jihad doesn’t mean "holy war": he defines this all-important Islamic concept as "being a better student, a better colleague, a better business partner. Above all, to control one’s anger." To its credit, the flyer’s explanation goes farther than Lawrence by mentioning the battlefield, and in this it is more accurate than the professor’s preposterously innocuous farrago. Islamic theology distinguishes between the "greater jihad," which involves "struggle against evil inclinations within oneself," and the "lesser jihad," which is hinted at here as "struggle in the battlefield for self defense or fighting against tyranny or oppression."

    Still, left unmentioned is the fact that throughout history, Muslims have not stopped at self-defense or fighting against tyranny. "In premodern times," observes the noted scholar of Islam Daniel Pipes, "jihad meant mainly one thing among Sunni Muslims, then as now the Islamic majority. It meant the legal, compulsory, communal effort to expand the territories ruled by Muslims (known in Arabic as dar al-Islam) at the expense of territories ruled by non-Muslims (dar al-harb). In this prevailing conception, the purpose of jihad is political, not religious. It aims not so much to spread the Islamic faith as to extend sovereign Muslim power (though the former has often followed the latter). The goal is boldly offensive, and its ultimate intent is nothing less than to achieve Muslim dominion over the entire world."

    Pipes adds: "Jihad was no abstract obligation through the centuries, but a key aspect of Muslim life. . . . Within a century after the prophet’s death in 632, Muslim armies had reached as far as India in the east and Spain in the west. Though such a dramatic single expansion was never again to be repeated, important victories in subsequent centuries included the seventeen Indian campaigns of Mahmud of Ghazna (r. 998-1030), the battle of Manzikert opening Anatolia (1071), the conquest of Constantinople (1453), and the triumphs of Uthman dan Fodio in West Africa (1804-17). ......

    Has this changed? Certainly it’s quite different from the idea of jihad purveyed by Muslim groups and the major media today. But this older idea of jihad is alive and well in the Islamic world. One manual of Islamic law — said to conform "to the practice and faith of the orthodox Sunni Community" by Al-Azhar University of Cairo, Egypt, the oldest and most prestigious university in the Islamic world — calls jihad "a communal obligation" to "war against non-Muslims. . . . The caliph makes war upon Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians . . . until they become Muslim or else pay the non-Muslim poll tax . . . The caliph fights all other peoples until they become Muslim."

    Some Muslims assert that because there is no caliph today (the caliphate was abolished by the secular state of Turkey in 1924), there can be no jihad. That’s one reason why some radical Muslims urge that the caliphate must be restored. Says Britain’s Sheikh Omar Bakri: "The Muslim Ummah [worldwide Muslim community] has never before been in a position where we are divided into over 55 nations each with its own oppressive kufr [infidel] regime ruling above us. There is no doubt therefore that the vital issue for the Muslims today is to establish the Khilafah [caliphate]."

    Unfortunately, Osama bin Laden isn’t waiting for this restoration to declare jihad, and he is by no means isolated in this perspective in the Islamic world — witness the many terrorist groups around the world that rally under the name of jihad. Pipes asks, "And what about all the Muslims waging violent and aggressive jihads, under that very name and at this very moment, in Algeria, Egypt, Sudan, Chechnya, Kashmir, Mindanao, Ambon, and other places around the world? Have they not heard that jihad is a matter of controlling one’s anger?"

    3. Islam condemns terrorism. The "Q & A" asserts that "Islam does not support terrorism under any circumstances. Terrorism goes against every principle in Islam. If a Muslim engages in terrorism, he is not following Islam. He may be wrongly using the name of Islam for political or financial gain."

    This assertion is closely allied to the differing explanations of the meaning of jihad. There is no necessary connection between jihad and terrorism, and indeed, many moderate Muslims declare that their extremist brethren who justify terrorism on Islamic grounds only do so by distorting the concept of jihad. "Jihad is misused," says an expert in PBS’s documentary, Muhammad: Legacy of a Prophet. "There is absolutely nothing in Islam that justifies, uh, the claim of Osama bin Laden, al Qaeda or other similar groups to kill innocent civilians. That is unequivocally a crime under Islamic law. Acts of terror violence that have occurred in the name of Islam are not only wrong, they are contrary to Islam."

    Once again, this is not as much of an open-and-shut case as these authorities would like us to believe. After all, no less an authority than George Bush’s "imam of peace," Sheikh Muhammad Sayyed Tantawi of Al-Azhar University, disagrees. Bush quoted him in late 2001 at the United Nations as saying that "terrorism is a disease, and that Islam prohibits killing innocent civilians." But evidently his definition of terrorism would differ from that of the average American: according to the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), last spring Tantawi called suicide bombing "the highest form of Jihad operations," and added that "every martyrdom operation against any Israeli, including children, women, and teenagers, is a legitimate act according to [Islamic] religious law, and an Islamic commandment."

    Tantawi is no isolated crank. He holds his position at Al-Azhar by the grace of the Egyptian government, and he uses that position to wield enormous influence in the Islamic world: the New York Times called Al-Azhar the "revered mosque, the distinguished university, the leading voice of the Sunni Muslim establishment. . . . It has sought to advise Muslims around the world that those who kill in the name of Islam are nothing more than heretics. It has sought to guide, to reassure Westerners against any clash of civilizations."

    Nor is Tantawi singular in his opinions. Abu Bakar Bashir, suspected mastermind of the 2002 terrorist bombings in Bali as well as bombings of churches in 2000, declared that "martyrs’ bombs are a noble thing, a jihad of high value if you are forced to do it. For instance, in Palestine there is no other way to defend yourself and defend Islam. All Ulamas [Muslim leaders] agree with martyrs’ bombs because we are forced to do it. There is no other way to defend ourselves and to defend Islam. . . . We are obliged to defend ourselves and attack people who attack Islam. In Islam there is no word for hands up, there is no word for surrender, there are only two things, win or die . . . if infidels do want to attack Islam, fight Islam, so we are instructed to fight them."

    Instructed by whom? Does Abu Bakar Bashir read the same Qur’an that moderate Muslims say condemns terrorism?

    After a shooting at a church in Pakistan, police detained another Muslim cleric, Mohammed Afzal, who is alleged to have told his people that "it is the duty of every good Muslim to kill Christians . . . You should attack Christians and not even have food until you have seen their dead bodies."

    Presumably Afzal would not consider Christians "innocent civilians." Osama and other Muslim extremists have maintained that the people killed in the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were not innocent, but complicit in what they imagine to be the American government’s worldwide oppression of Muslims. Consequently, they argue that they were fitting victims of jihad — even envisioned only as a struggle against "tyranny or oppression."

    Disquieting evidence indicates that such ideas are not restricted to obscure covens of ranting radicals, shunned by decent Muslims everywhere. According to MEMRI, "Mahmoud Al_Zahhar, a Hamas leader in Gaza, told the Israeli Arab weekly Kul Al_Arab, ‘Two days ago, in Alexandria, enrolment began for volunteers for martyrdom [operations]. Two thousand students from the University of Alexandria signed up to die a martyr’s death. This is the real Egyptian people.’"

    Two thousand students from one university? Didn’t these two thousand students know that "those who kill in the name of Islam are nothing more than heretics"? Didn’t they know that "terrorism goes against every principle in Islam"?

    The point is not that the moderates who wrote the flyer are wrong and that these radicals are right. The point is that these radical Muslims use the Qur’an and other core Islamic sources to justify their actions, and their exegesis is compelling enough to win over large numbers of Muslims. Moderate Muslims have thus far not been remotely successful in reading the radicals out of Islam. Certainly terrorism is not universally accepted in the Islamic world, but with terrorist groups rallying under the banner of jihad in all corners of the globe today, IIIT might have performed a valuable service by explaining how this violation of "every principle in Islam" came to be so widely accepted in the Muslim world......""

    From the Longer and Very Interesting http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...le.asp?ID=5502
    Last edited by abu afak; 01-16-2003 at 10:31 AM.

  2. #2
    andak01
    Guest

    Re: "Jihad", Terror and Disinformation

    This is the same Daniel Pipes that calls your estimate of 6 million American Muslims a hoax. Well, it happens to be my estimate as well, 6 to 7 million.

    Disquieting evidence indicates that such ideas are not restricted to obscure covens of ranting radicals, shunned by decent Muslims everywhere. According to MEMRI, "Mahmoud Al_Zahhar, a Hamas leader in Gaza, told the Israeli Arab weekly Kul Al_Arab, ‘Two days ago, in Alexandria, enrolment began for volunteers for martyrdom [operations]. Two thousand students from the University of Alexandria signed up to die a martyr’s death. This is the real Egyptian people.’"
    Mr. Pipes is getting his news from MEMRI. He cannot be faulted for that. Tom Friedman has also mentioned MEMRI as a source. MEMRI doesn't lie, it just makes sure to diseminate only those clippings which are most damaging to the image of Arabs while ignoring anything positive. It's no wonder that our news sources, reliant as they are on translations, fall prey to this sort of spin.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/...773258,00.html

    Evidence from Memri's website also casts doubt on its non-partisan status. Besides supporting liberal democracy, civil society, and the free market, the institute also emphasises "the continuing relevance of Zionism to the Jewish people and to the state of Israel". Brian Whitaker, The Guardian

  3. #3
    Frans_1
    Guest
    I like it when people complain about Memri's reporting The more bitter the complaint, the more better . They are always forced cover their posterior by first acknowledging Memri's accuracy, but Memri's very accuracy shows it's actually untrustable since it is too accurate. So it must be that the British media must be trusted for it's impartiality because of it's inaccuracy in reporting

    I think that particular Guardian "investigation" unintentionally reveals a deep insecurity and anxiety in the viciously anti-Israel British media at large. (Bless 'em. Really)

    What does it say of the person who kills the messenger because the unwanted message is the responsiblity of the one who delivers the news ?
    Last edited by Frans_1; 01-17-2003 at 06:09 AM.

  4. #4
    andak01
    Guest
    [i]...but Memri's very accuracy shows it's actually untrustable since it is too accurate. So it must be that the British media must be trusted for it's impartiality because of it's inaccuracy in reporting
    Accuracy in translation doesn't mean that they give an accurate picture of what's actually going on. I recall that Lyndon LaRouche used to have two guys standing in front of my workplace everyday handing out pamplets. If a news camera had come and filmed them or some reporter had written about them, it would have appeared as 'LaRouche Supporters Meet in Front of Corporate Headquarters'. If you put a camera on someone, you add importance to their message. In the case of MEMRI, they are translating the most radical comments of radical people and passing distributing them without comment. This leads to the view that there aren't any other voices out there.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    To be fair though the 'Arab Press' or that part of it which is published in English in al Hayat al Quds or 'Arabnews.com'....

    or:

    http://www.mideastweb.org/mewnewslinks.html
    http://www.masnet.org/newstand.htm
    http://www.mevic.org/menanews.html


    and so on are unapologetically frank about their agendas. Which is fine as far as it goes. Let's just recognize that for the most part press is an organ of the state and is constructed by opinion leaders for consumption across as broad a spectrum as possible. No one would for example actually accuse Fox News in the US as being 'Fair and Balanced' as opposed to say, the Christian Science Monitor (which really is for the most part) any more than someone would accuse National Review as offering a credible forum to non Conservative viewpoints.

  6. #6
    abu afak
    Guest

    Re: Re: "Jihad", Terror and Disinformation

    Originally posted by andak01
    This is the same Daniel Pipes that calls your estimate of 6 million American Muslims a hoax. Well, it happens to be my estimate as well, 6 to 7 million.
    Wait a minute my two-faced friend

    YOU said, and YOU used, in explaining why Muslims haven't had a National demonstration, Pipes' figure of 1.8-2 million Muslims. Now you want to call this estimate untrue for the sake of a different argument.!!

    YOU brought up Pipes and YOU used his number! NOT ME

    I used 6 Million, NOT YOU! You used the lower Pipes number to try and excuse away America's unpatriotic Muslims. I allowed it for the sake of argument and buried you anyway, as there were still plenty to have a national Demonstration.

    This is Preposterous Duplicity and typical andak/Arab

    Unbelievable.
    Last edited by abu afak; 01-17-2003 at 10:51 AM.

  7. #7
    andak01
    Guest

    Re: Re: Re: "Jihad", Terror and Disinformation

    Originally posted by abu afak
    [B]Wait a minute my two-faced friend
    You already started in a previous post by calling me a liar. So now I'm two-faced? What does that make me, a double liar?

    Daniel Pipes, your 'respected expert' on Islam, is a hate monger. I think you and I both know that his estimate of the number of Muslims in the US is way low. He stated it that way in order to reduce our seeming importance. Because if Muslims in America are such a small number, they are easier to marginalize. Make no mistake, that is his agenda. If the world believes what you believe, that the hijackers are representative of the Muslim world at large, then the call will go forth to destroy all of us. Fortunately, clearer heads prevail. That call, a call from which there can be no turning back, is a declaration of holy war by non-Muslims against Muslims. That is the realization of the Dar Al Harb writ large by stupid intolerance. George Bush and the leaders of the western world, to their credit have decided not to travel that road. Whether the war against terrorism is a war for oil or a personal vendetta against Saddam or something else, one thing it is not is a holy war against Islam.

    This is Preposterous Duplicity and typical andak/Arab
    OK, so now Arabs are all liars. I knew your true face would come forth eventually. You assumed I was a liar by virtue of my religion and now you assume I am an Arab by virtue of my religion. I guess we all look alike to you. This is definitely an improvement over the usual cut and paste.

  8. #8
    abu afak
    Guest

    Re: Re: Re: Re: "Jihad", Terror and Disinformation

    Originally posted by andak01
    You already started in a previous post by calling me a liar. So now I'm two-faced? What does that make me, a double liar?

    Daniel Pipes, your 'respected expert' on Islam, is a hate monger. I think you and I both know that his estimate of the number of Muslims in the US is way low. He stated it that way in order to reduce our seeming importance. Because if Muslims in America are such a small number, they are easier to marginalize. Make no mistake, that is his agenda. If the world believes what you believe, that the hijackers are representative of the Muslim world at large, then the call will go forth to destroy all of us. Fortunately, clearer heads prevail. That call, a call from which there can be no turning back, is a declaration of holy war by non-Muslims against Muslims. That is the realization of the Dar Al Harb writ large by stupid intolerance. George Bush and the leaders of the western world, to their credit have decided not to travel that road. Whether the war against terrorism is a war for oil or a personal vendetta against Saddam or something else, one thing it is not is a holy war against Islam.



    OK, so now Arabs are all liars. I knew your true face would come forth eventually. You assumed I was a liar by virtue of my religion and now you assume I am an Arab by virtue of my religion. I guess we all look alike to you. This is definitely an improvement over the usual cut and paste.
    YOU used Pipes... to make YOUR argument.

    YOU brought his number AND link into the discussion to Justify YOUR Lame Excuse! ('that were too few Muslims for a patriotic National demonstration of support for the USA' !! LOL)

    What do you call someone who uses a source he knows (or wrongly thinks) is a Lie? Then in the next post, to justify something else, THEN says it's wrong! (YIKES)

    Like I said.... You're a disastrous Defender of Arabs/Islam... Please call CAIR and have them send someone....

    Your Spiked Shoes are putting Large holes in the Hull while you work futilely to plug pinholes with your Hands.

    Glug Glug
    Last edited by abu afak; 01-17-2003 at 01:20 PM.

  9. #9
    andak01
    Guest

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "Jihad", Terror and Disinformation

    And what happens glug, glug if we lose? Are you calling for our extermination?

  10. #10
    abu afak
    Guest

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "Jihad", Terror and Disinformation

    Originally posted by andak01
    And what happens glug, glug if we lose? Are you calling for our extermination?
    If you 'lose', you'll proably get offered a state Yet again.

    and reject it, yet again. LOL

    Apparently the world feels there's no territorial penalty for trying to wipe someone else out 3 times from that same territory.


    What would have happened Isreal lost in '48, '67 0r '73.. HMMM?
    ....

    And you haven't answered on your hypocritical, two-faced use of Pipes ... Slime ball

  11. #11
    andak01
    Guest

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "Jihad", Terror and Disinformation

    Originally posted by abu afak
    If you 'lose', you'll proably get offered a state Yet again.

    and reject it, yet again. LOL

    Apparently the world feels there's no territorial penalty for trying to wipe someone else out 3 times from that same territory.


    What would have happened Isreal lost in '48, '67 0r '73.. HMMM?
    ....

    And you haven't answered on your hypocritical, two-faced use of Pipes ... Slime ball
    Well I'm not a Palestinian, so I'm not in search of a state. I'm not an Arab, so racial profiling doesn't work with me. And I don't have to answer anything at all to someone who calls me a liar and a slimeball. I wouldn't go so far as to call you a troll, because you really seem to believe in your line of hatred. Good luck.

  12. #12
    abu afak
    Guest

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "Jihad", Terror and Disinformation

    YOU used Pipes... to make YOUR argument.

    YOU brought his number AND link into the discussion to Justify YOUR Lame Excuse! ('that were too few Muslims for a patriotic National demonstration of support for the USA' !! LOL)

    What do you call someone who uses a source he knows (or wrongly thinks) is a Lie? Then in the next post, to justify something else, THEN says it's wrong! (YIKES)

    Like I said.... You're a disastrous Defender of Arabs/Islam... Please call CAIR and have them send someone....

    Your Spiked Shoes are putting Large holes in the Hull while you work futilely to plug pinholes with your Hands.

    Glug Glug
    Last edited by abu afak; 01-17-2003 at 03:56 PM.

  13. #13
    Frans_1
    Guest
    >>> Accuracy in translation doesn't mean that they give an accurate picture of what's actually going on.

    thats the problem. An accurate picture (or view) depends on things other than accurate reporting ?

    as to whether something is "damaging" or "radical", it's entirely subjective. Memri's stated agenda is not to publish, in it's opinion, the "worst" about the Arab press. If you don't like it's reporting, you can infer that. Maybe it actually presents the best side....

    but on the other hand,

    just makes sure to diseminate only those clippings which are most damaging to the image of (Arabs) while ignoring anything positive
    is not the basic problem with the European/British media and academia's dishonest reporting on Israel. Whereas you can still, arguably, claim that is Memri's problem.

    Under that guideline of accurate view, how would one report on eg Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan during WW2 or Rwanda? Eg, just because the Japanese imperial army was slaughtering 300,000 unarmed Chinese in Nanjing doesn't mean there wasn't a lot positive going for it or even that it was a bad thing! It may be unfairly damaging to the Japanese image without also reporting on the atrocities committed by the unarmed Chinese!

    But it begs the question of why, if Memri is supposedly accurate, the mainstream press, especially the British Media so studiously avoid such reports. I really want to hear an answer to this one.
    Last edited by Frans_1; 01-17-2003 at 04:44 PM.

  14. #14
    andak01
    Guest
    Under that guideline of accurate view, how would one report on eg Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan during WW2 or Rwanda?
    We're not talking about Nazi Germany, we are talking about the hundreds of millions that make up the Arab world. And the accuracy mentioned, once again is only accuracy of translation.

    Simple example.

    Qur'an Surah Taubah 9:5

    ...fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them...

    Accurate right? So Muslims can kill all infidels?

    also 9:5
    but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them:

    Accurate right? So Muslims can kill all infidels who don't convert?

    9:6
    If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure.

    Accurate right? So Muslims can't kill infidels who are even willing to hear the word of Allah?

    But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them,

    Accurate right? So Muslims can't kill any infidels before the forbidden months are past? What forbidden months?

    9:1 A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-

    9:2 Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.

    9:3 And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.


    Accurate right? This is a historic reference to a specific event. The Infidels mentioned in the text were the Qaraish of Mecca. They are already dead. So saying that this quote is a general prescription for killing Infidels is a lie. In the first example, we come away with the conclusion that Muslims are enjoined by the Qur'an to kill all Infidels. That, based on a fragment taken out of context is an accurate conclusion. But if we read the entire passage, the meaning is nowhere near that. So translating accurately does not include putting things in context. And putting things in context is the duty of an ethical journalist.

  15. #15
    Frans_1
    Guest
    If you look at the first 5 verses you just provided, then,

    In the first example, we come away with the conclusion that Muslims are enjoined by the Qur'an to kill all Infidels. That, based on a fragment taken out of context is an accurate conclusion.
    who is we ? it is not possible to jump to such a conclusion and say that that is the accurate conclusion which is drawn by others.


    but
    We're not talking about Nazi Germany,
    we are not talking about the Koran either, we were talking about Memri's reporting.

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