History of The Sudan

[abu afak]

Originally posted by andak01
Get it out of your system Abu. Photos of bloody corpses is kind of Al Jazeeresque, but then if they can do it, why shouldn't you?

This one is just representative... and I'll Grant 'Al jazeeraesque'

But then, I just speak for me... and Al-Jazeera is Trying to Inflame and incite 30+Million Viewers. .. A Fact, >I< also brought here recently.

However, I won't let Your minutia/defelection-attempts distract from The Butcherous Jihad in The Sudan, for which you (like every other string) are trying to minimize, explain away, and whitewash. (and I will continue dissemination after this post)

You are correctly becoming known on this board for just that... Laughable apologism.. and as such, are part of the problem .. Islamic Jihad, It's condoning, and it's apologism; Instead of the needed acknowledgement, rejection, reformation, and emergence from it's Current trend of primitive religionist warfare.

Would love to here from any forthright Moslem (non-apologist) who can acknowledge there is a problem and what should be done about It, from within or from without Islam.

[reason]

Originally posted by abu afak
This one is just representative... and I'll Grant 'Al jazeeraesque'

But then, I just speak for me... and Al-Jazeera is Trying to Inflame and incite 30+Million Viewers. .. A Fact, >I< also brought here recently.

However, I won't let Your minutia/defelection-attempts distract from The Butcherous Jihad in The Sudan, for which you (like every other string) are trying to minimize, explain away, and whitewash. (and I will continue dissemination after this post)

You are correctly becoming known on this board for just that... Laughable apologism.. and as such, are part of the problem .. Islamic Jihad, It's condoning, and it's apologism; Instead of the needed acknowledgement, rejection, reformation, and emergence from it's Current trend of primitive religionist warfare.

Would love to here from any forthright Moslem (non-apologist) who can acknowledge there is a problem and what should be done about It, from within or from without Islam.

I have always said that Modern Muslims should be held accountable for these acts of barbarity. I have posted my opinion in previous posts. I also said that the Muslims should come out and condone these acts, because they are being done in the name of Allah.BUT I believe that Islam is innocent of these ignorant zealots, I as a Muslim believe that what the people practice is not Islam. That is why I take upon myself to condone these acts because they are being made in my name.

Islam is a peaceful religion, what terrorists do is not Islam.

[andak01]

Reason,

Abu won't give you that option of saying that anything is unIslamic or that you don't agree with it. So I am caught in the difficult position of actually trying to find out what is going on. Thanks to Abu's quick paste finger, I am getting the Christian missionary side of things pretty clearly. I don't have any intention of whitewashing. If 2,000,000 Christians were killed by bloodthirsty Muslim scum, so be it. But it would seem that there were other factors in play. Where there are oil companies and Russian and Israeli arms involved, it sounds more like more of the same post cold war . And I am just waiting for something to break out in Niger or Chad where the latest pipeline is going through. It's an amazing coincidence that we don't seem to give a rip about any of these places until there is an oil pipeline.

P.S. Don't even dare to say that Islam is a religion of peace around here. That is not an allowable option. Anything short of walking into Hezbollah headquarters and getting yourself killed is ignoring the issues. It isn't enough that we raise our children to be tolerant, that they can be the future, we must stop everything and go after people that America's best spies haven't even been able to identify.

And whatever you do, don't let Abu in on our secret world plot and how we plan to treat the unbelievers as outlined in Surah Kafiroon:

Kul ya ayuhah al kafiroon
La abadu ma ta'abadoon
Wala antum abadoona ma abud
Wala anna abadoon ma abadtum
Wala antum abadoona ma abud
Laykum deenikum waliya deen.

[abu afak]

Originally posted by reason
I have always said that Modern Muslims should be held accountable for these acts of barbarity. I have posted my opinion in previous posts. I also said that the Muslims should come out and condone these acts, because they are being done in the name of Allah.BUT I believe that Islam is innocent of these ignorant zealots, I as a Muslim believe that what the people practice is not Islam. That is why I take upon myself to condone these acts because they are being made in my name.

Islam is a peaceful religion, what terrorists do is not Islam.

I think you mean 'condemn' where you say 'condone'.

Assuming that, I appreciate your statement.

So you condemn these 'ignorant zealot terrorists'.. But I'm never sure who that includes...And Even on Osama I'm not sure how many Muslims, especially Arabs share your feelings. Indeed, In much of the Arab World there is Denial he is even responsible for 9/11. (Thus more condoning)... This recent Poll from 'Moderate' Kuwait where 75% Think Osama is a Hero

http://www.ramadhan.org/home/categor...D=5051&TagID=2

And I think you were saying you condemn the Islamic Government of Sudan too ... But this doesn't seem to be a hot topic for condemnation when Arab/Islamic countries meet, and it's been going on for 20 years with 2 million Christians and animists Dead and 4-5,00,000 Displaced and maybe 100,000 in Slavery.

Of course Zealotry is not confined to Osama, or even just the Sudan, or the bloody rest of North Africa; Non-Moslem Minorities are systematically persecuted in Most Muslim Nations.. Like Indonesia (here's how angry Indonesian Mulims are/AREN'T at the arrest of one of the Bali Bombers
( http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/...080786304.html ) , Pakistan, Egypt, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc ...

and you don't want to be caught even having a private Christian Service in Saudi Arabia either.

also see ht*tp://www.conservativetruth.org/archives/tombarrett/12-16-01.shtml (remove asterisk)


Within the Mideast itself, Christians have been purged almost out of existance, most recently by the Palestinian Authority just since their control in 1994.

Alas we're not talking a 'few zealots' here, but Religous Persecution and condoning by Most Islamic nations against their minorities. Most of this religous Persecution continues Condoned and UNcondemned as we post; and above is just a Very Partial List.

So whoever was included in your condemnation, I appreciate it, ... but there are so many 'Zealots' and condoners of Zealots (in fact, a majority)
That maybe they're Right about Islam and you're wrong...

Otherwise what IS happening, Wouldn't be

[andak01]

Here are some links about the Great Nile Oil Project. You mentioned it in your own post and one would guess that it is one of the main sources of income for the very brutal regiem that you and I both abhor.

http://www.sudan.net/news/posted/6438.html
http://www.oilandgasinternational.co...ws/sudan4.html

http://www.oilandgasinternational.co...ews/sudan4.gif

Do you think we could draw a map to the center of this religious pogram?

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/2...0302381600.htm

He said OVL would pay interest on $720 million from September 1 till the payment was made.

OVL would also make cash payments to Talisman, for whatever share it was ultimately able to buy in February.

The investment would give India nearly three million tonnes of crude oil annually from the field which now produces 12 million tonnes.

[andak01]

http://www.atlapedia.com/online/countries/sudan.htm

In Aug. 1991 there was a split in the SPLA along tribal lines which led to more violent fighting near the towns of Bor and Kangor.

Were these tribes of Christians or tribes of Muslims?

In Feb. 1991 the government announced the introduction of a federal system of government in an attempt to end the country's civil war, although it was rejected by the SPLA leader Col. John Garang.

In March 1992 the government assisted with Iranian troops launched an offensive against the SPLA rebels, although it remained unsuccessful in breaking the siege of Juba.

Are these the innocent Christians you are referring to? Well armed rebels that the government is unable to break?

http://www.westheights.org/sudan/sudan_basic_info.asp

Sudan has been involved in a civil war for many years. Rebels have been fighting for more autonomy for black African south Sudan from the mostly Muslim, Arabist north since 1983. The conflict is fuelled by religion, oil, ethnicity and ideology.

[abu afak]

I'm waiting for 'reason' to respond
(The poster And the noun)

[andak01]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists...234228,00.html

A year or two later, Robert Maker, my former research assistant in Sudan, a sweet-tempered teacher who joined the southern rebel army, was killed in action by Sudan government troops.

http://www.dfa.gov.za/docs/pq271a.htm

Negotiations Between the Government of Sudan (GoS) and the Sudanese People's Liberation Movement/Army (SPLM/A)

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/spla.htm

The principal insurgent faction is the Sudan People's Liberation Movement (SPLM), a body created by the Sudan People's Liberation Army (SPLA). The SPLA was formed in 1983 when Lieutenant Colonel John Garang of the SPAF was sent to quell a mutiny in Bor of 500 southern troops who were resisting orders to be rotated to the north. Instead of ending the mutiny, Garang encouraged mutinies in other garrisons and set himself at the head of the rebellion against the Khartoum government. Garang, a Dinka born into a Christian family, had studied at Grinnell College, Iowa, and later returned to the United States to take a company commanders' course at Fort Benning, Georgia, and again to earn advanced economics degrees at Iowa State University. By 1986 the SPLA was estimated to have 12,500 adherents organized into twelve battalions and equipped with small arms and a few mortars. By 1989 the SPLA's strength had reached 20,000 to 30,000; by 1991 it was estimated at 50,000 to 60,000.

Since 1983, the SPLA has been divided into 3 main factions: the SPLA Torit faction led by John Garang; the SPLA Bahr-al-Ghazal faction led by Carabino Kuany Bol; and the South Sudan Independence Movement led by Rick Machar. These internal divisions have intensified fighting in the south, hampering any potential peace settlement. The SPLA remains the principal military force in the insurgency.

In April 1997 the South Sudan Independence Movement/Army (SSIM/A), which broke away from the SPLA, and several smaller southern factions concluded a peace agreement with the Government. These former insurgent elements then formed the United Democratic Salvation Front (UDSF). However, the SPLM, its armed wing, the SPLM/A, and most independent analysts have regarded the April 21 Agreement as a tactical government effort to enlist southerners on its side. The SPLM/A and its northern allies in the National Democratic Alliance (NDA) carried out successful military offensives in areas along the borders with Ethiopia and Eritrea and in large parts of the south during the year. Neither side appears to have the ability to win the war militarily.

In 1996 the US government decided to send nearly $20 million of military equipment through the 'front-line' states of Ethiopia, Eritrea and Uganda to help the Sudanese opposition overthrow the Khartoum regime. US officials denied that the military aid for the SPLA and the Sudanese Allied Forces (SAF), described as 'non-lethal' -- including radios, uniforms, boots and tents -- was targeted at Sudan. The Pentagon and CIA considered Sudan to be second only to Iran as a staging ground for international terrorism. CIA Director John Deutch made a 3-day visit to the Ethiopian capital in April 1996, where he noted that funds had been significantly increased for a more activist policy including preemptive strikes against terrorists and their sponsors. Reportedly several Operational Detachments-Alpha (also called A-Teams) of the US army were operating in support of the SPLA.

[andak01]

Now take this map and put it on top of the one posted earlier and you will see how closely the battle lines run to the end of the oil pipeline.

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/ssudan2.gif

And the CIA is already involved in this religious dispute. Why weren't they involved in Gujarat? Simple answer, no oil.

Afghanistan - Soviet Union = Mujjahhiddeen freedom fighters backed by the US heroically battling against the Russians to free our oil.

Afghanistan - United States = Mujja...er, Taliban jihadists fighting a holy war to stop the Unical pipeline. They were good enough for Enron to bring to Houston, but when they wouldn't play our game, they became jihadists and their weapons of choice? Supplied by Russia.

Sudan - United States = Russian backed Government troops fighting to capture the oil from CIA backed freedom fighters. Sound familiar?

So we see that whoever defends our frickin oil is a freedom fighter and whoever takes it is a terrorist. The Northern Alliance in Afghanistan, despite their miserable human rights record became the freedom fighters there as soon as they were on our side. The Taliban became terrorists as soon as they went up against us.

[andak01]

http://www.aboutsudan.com/delegation...egislators.htm

Muriel Mirak-Weisbach
Executive Intelligence Review, Oct. 11, 1996, pp. 58-69

In its continuing plot to break up Sudan and unleash genocidal warfare throughout the Horn of Africa, British intelligence has been waging an international campaign, alleging that the Khartoum government has been guilty of wide-ranging human rights violations, from forced Islamization and persecution of Christians, to child abduction, genocide, and slavery. In the forefront of the British crusade to slap United Nations Security Council sanctions against Sudan, has been Christian Solidarity International (CSI), run by Speaker of the House of Lords Baroness Caroline Cox. Together with other British intelligence front organizations, such as Amnesty International, CSI has issued reports which have claimed to document cases of slavery. Cox's CSI deployed two journalists from the Baltimore Sun last April, to go with her to rebel-held territory in southern Sudan, where a mock transaction was orchestrated, whereby the journalists "purchased" a slave and set him free.

It was on the basis of this cheap Hollywood set-up, chronicled three days running with color pictures, and soul-searching personal accounts by one of the two Sun correspondents, an African-American, that authoritative political forces, such as the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) and the leader of the Congressional Black Caucus, Rep. Donald Payne (D-N.J.), presented resolutions calling for sanctions against Sudan. The NAACP resolution was rushed through approval at the eleventh hour of the organization's annual convention as an "emergency resolution," without any debate; to become binding, it must be approved by the executive in an upcoming session in October. Representative Payne's bill, H.R. 3766, has been referred to the House Banking Committee. In November, the case of Sudan is up for review by the UN Security Council, and the decision to extend an aviation ban and other economic sanctions will be taken. Although the action in the UN, initiated by the British in January, is officially based on charges that Sudan has been harboring three Ethiopians suspected of having been involved in the attempted assassination of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak last year, the moves by the NAACP and Congress are to be exploited, to drum up political and emotional support for sanctions.

In the entire charade orchestrated by Cox, a systematic effort has been mounted to find African-American spokesmen who would raise charges of slavery against Sudan, because it could be expected otherwise that leading African-Americans would protest against any U.S. decision to support sanctions against an African nation. In fact, Nation of Islam Minister Louis Farrakhan, following a trip to Africa which included a stop in Sudan earlier this year, denied the slavery charges, and challenged the press to go and document its wild accusations. In response to the Nation of Islam leader's ch0enge, Cox and her sidekick John Eibner concocted the slave transaction for the Baltimore Sun.

Although official invitations were issued by Sudan's Ambassador to the United States Mahdi Ibrahim Mohamed, to members of Congress, including several representatives of the Congressional Black Caucus, none of them agreed to travel to the country and see for himself.

Instead, on the initiative of the Schiller Institute, a delegation of four U.S. elected officials took the time and trouble to go to Sudan, and conduct a thorough fact-finding mission, to determine whether or not there were any substance to the grave charges. Their verdict: The charges are unfounded. Thus, the only delegation of American elected officials thus far to examine the evidence has come out with findings that refute the lies of Cox et al. This will force the responsible parties in the NAACP as well as the Congressional Black (continued in link above)

[abu afak]

I'm still waiting for 'reason' to respond
(The poster And/Or the noun)

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by reason
Islam is a peaceful religion, what terrorists do is not Islam.

(Welcome to my world)


The goals and aims of the two are, for the most part, to the rest of the world, indistinguishable from one another.

[andak01]

Originally posted by Mediocrates
(Welcome to my world)


The goals and aims of the two are, for the most part, to the rest of the world, indistinguishable from one another.

That would be the rest of the world, not including people who agree with Bush, Clinton and Oprah and others that Islam is a religion of peace? Speak for yourself.

[Mediocrates]

you sound positively zionist!

[Micah]

haha!