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Thread: Muslim Hypocrisy

  1. #1
    abu afak
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    Muslim Hypocrisy

    Muslim Hypocrisy

    Commentary, by John Aravosis


    Why is it that some in the Middle East, and their allies in Europe, feel that it's immoral for the US to help Muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq, but a moral imperative for America to liberate Muslims in Palestine? This Muslim double standard has been at the forefront of criticism of the US during the war against the Taleban and Al-Qaeda, and the intellectual paucity underlying it is getting to be too much to take.

    Yes, there are reasons one could be opposed to the war in Afghanistan. But the ones being given by America's foes and friends alike are pretty transparent.

    The fact remains that a Muslim government (the Taleban), with the help of over 10,000 Arabs (also Muslims), subjugated nearly 25 million Muslim Afghanis for the past five years. Where is the Middle Eastern and European angst about that oppression of Muslims? Then there is the daily killing of Muslims, by Muslims, in Kashmir and on the Indian/Pakistani border. Where is the Muslim world's outrage about that ongoing atrocity? Or how about Saddam Hussein's ongoing slaughter of his own people - the man even used chemical weapons against his own Muslim towns. Is there Middle Eastern and European outrage about that little travesty? And how about Iraq's ongoing harassment of Muslim Kuwait, and the fact that there are still Kuwaitis missing from the Gulf War over ten years ago. Any consternation about those suffering Muslims?

    No, the suffering Muslims that Middle Easterners and Europeans fret about are the Afghani Muslims the US government is actually in the process of saving. They're not concerned about those same Muslim women and children being oppressed under a brutal dictatorship. No, that was fine. But once the US comes in and liberates those same Muslims, suddenly America is the bad guy.

    The situation gets even better when you throw Israel into the equation. The same detractors, while not wanting to outright condone the September 11 attacks on America (that would be too intellectually honest), love to throw around the opinion that America got what it deserved, or at the very least, America must understand that its policies in the Middle East have fueled terror.

    Now let's look a little closer at that canard. When the US gets involved to save Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, Kuwait and Kosovo, we're blamed for it. But when we don't get involved to help Muslims in Palestine, rather than being lauded for finally not getting involved, we're again blamed. In addition to that damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't hypocrisy, the anti-Americans don't quite seem to understand the logical extension of their argument. If it's ok for the Palestinians to kill Americans and Europeans who don't support them enough, then isn't it ok for Israelis to launch terror attacks against the French, the Greeks and other world powers who don't support Israel enough. I mean, fair is fair. And while we're at it, under the same logic, the Afghan people and the Iraqi people, and the Kuwaitis and Kosovars too, now have free license to blow up innocent civilians in the Arab world and Europe - since those governments and peoples didn't do nearly enough to help liberate those Muslims while they were oppressed. The rule this crowd would like to have us follow is that if you don't help a particular group of people to their satisfaction, they have the right to blow up thousands of your innocent women and children. Lovely. And they call our position immoral.

    But, of course, you won't hear that kind of admission out of the hate-America-first crowd, because their anger and opposition isn't based on logic - it's based on bigotry. They simply hate America for being America, and always will, regardless of its policies.

    http://uspolitics.about.com/library/.../aa010302a.htm

  2. #2
    andak01
    Guest
    Bravo. More claptrap from the master of cut and paste.

    How about this. America is the ally of the Mujjahiddeen 'freedom fighters' against the commies. When these same 'freedom fighters' (Bin Laden among them) are abandonned and become anti-American (most particularly, anti-American business interest) Taliban, they also magically transform into terrorists. We don't really ever have to explain the connection between the Taliban and Al Qaida, because the Taliban are evaporated before they get their day in court.

    Don't get me wrong. The Taliban were rats. But then, so were the Northern Alliance. Also, it isn't often mentioned that the Northern Alliance is also a Muslim government. So for all the propaganda of casting off the burkas, women in Afghanistan under the Northern Alliance are more subject to abuses than they were under the Taliban. In fact the sale of Burkas was increasing in some areas.

    http://www.labournet.net/other/0111/wluiran1.html
    http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/03/pashtest030702.htm
    http://www.hrw.org/press/2001/10/afghan1006.htm

    It might also be worth mentioning that the world was rather silent as the US sold weapons to both Iraq and Iran a few years back to use for their mutual distruction. Now Bush says he will go nuclear if Saddam attempts to touch a hair on Israel's scalp. This is an epidemic of people on both sides playing God and deciding which human lives are worth more than which others.

    Of course you won't hear this kind of logic from the hate Muslims first crowd.

  3. #3
    abu afak
    Guest

    Re: Muslim Hypocrisy

    Originally posted by andak01
    Bravo. More claptrap from the master of cut and paste.

    How about this. America is the ally of the Mujjahiddeen 'freedom fighters' against the commies. When these same 'freedom fighters' (Bin Laden among them) are abandonned and become anti-American...
    There you have it, Master and Disingenuous Liar of Israel Forum.

    In his own words.

    We abandoned bin Laden? We were just next on his list... Always were... He resented his own Saudi Governement even allowing US Troops there for Saudis own defense.. and started Bombing us.

    We responded.

    Yet another example of Muslim Hypocrisy/Delusion/Partiality.. right here on this board
    Last edited by abu afak; 02-23-2003 at 09:46 PM.

  4. #4
    andak01
    Guest
    Yet another example of rampant Islamophobia. When the American government leaves Saddam room to mop up the Kurds after leading them to believe they were getting their own state, it isn't called Christian or even American hypocrasy. But when a Muslim STATE, run by a secular dictator that may or may not represent the will of the people does something, it's Muslim hypocracy. You have to stick that religious stamp on there even though many of these rulers are only using religion as a shield to hold back the wrath of their people.

    Perfect evidence is Turkey. Everyone is going to proclaim that they are a secular state and better than the rest if they assist us against Saddam. They'll be pariahs and labeled a Muslim state if they don't. The fact of the matter is religion doesn't even figure into their decision one way or another. They are afraid of losing territory to the Kurd, etc.

  5. #5
    andak01
    Guest
    BTW monitors, I'm a little tired of being called a liar every time I state my opinion. But, understandably after about the hundredth time, I get a little hot around the collar. I will try not allow that to slip into my communication with some of your more reasonable posters.

  6. #6
    abu afak
    Guest

    Re: Re: Muslim Hypocrisy

    Originally posted by andak01
    Bravo. More claptrap from the master of cut and paste.

    How about this. America is the ally of the Mujjahiddeen 'freedom fighters' against the commies. When these same 'freedom fighters' (Bin Laden among them) are abandonned and become anti-American...

    In his own words.

    Now add 'bin Laden Apologist' to his LONG list of Apologism, you-too-isms, and just plain Lies.

    We abandoned bin Laden? We were just next on his list... Always were... He resented his own Saudi Governement even allowing US Troops there for Saudis own defense.. and started Bombing us.

    We responded.

    Yet another example of Muslim Hypocrisy/Delusion/Partiality.. right here on this board.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    I think you are both committing sophistry. OBL had his own agenda and didn't suddenly have an epiphany who his real enemies were.

    And truthfully I have no idea why Turkey would resist a war any more than the citizens of France. Suffice it to say they have their own reasons that have to do with things other than Islam. Even here we have our own classical Stalinists who parrot the 'US and all of its allies are our implacable enemies' line. It really doesn't matter the substance, whatever it is, they're against it.

    So is there hypocrisy - oh yeah more than enough. The muslims, the Tikkun jews, the apocalyptic evangochristianialists, the communists, the postcolonialists. They all want to tell you the good reasons why someone's supposed to kill you.

  8. #8
    humus_sapiens
    Guest
    I totally loved the article.

    I am curious. Why don't we hear the supposedly peaceful moderate Muslims actually fighting the terror? At best, what I saw was plain PR.

    Where are the Muslim Pipes, Horowitzes, Dershowitzes, Emersons, Farahs, or at least Toms Friedmans? It is easy to fill the whole page with similar names, but you won't find many Mulsim names there.

    For the sake of this particular discussion, I'd like to leave aside offensive, defensive and apologetical articles, please.

    Their voice is also heard loud and clear when they talk about alleged profiling, fear, or their human rights.

  9. #9
    andak01
    Guest
    You mean Muslims who say that Islam is nothing more than an evil worldwide plot? Where are the Jews who quote the Elder's of Zion? Where are the Jewish Holocaust denyers?

  10. #10
    andak01
    Guest
    Originally posted by humus_sapiens
    I am curious. Why don't we hear the supposedly peaceful moderate Muslims actually fighting the terror? At best, what I saw was plain PR.
    http://quickstart.clari.net/qs_se/we....R6IU_CDL.html
    Yemeni forces launched a hunt for al-Qaeda gunmen Saturday after a policeman and a suspect died in a shootout with the wanted terror network believed to have blown up a French supertanker, officials said.
    I don't know, why do you suppose?

  11. #11
    abu afak
    Guest
    Originally posted by humus_sapiens
    I totally loved the article.

    I am curious. Why don't we hear the supposedly peaceful moderate Muslims actually fighting the terror? At best, what I saw was plain PR.

    Where are the Muslim Pipes, Horowitzes, Dershowitzes, Emersons, Farahs, or at least Toms Friedmans? It is easy to fill the whole page with similar names, but you won't find many Mulsim names there.

    For the sake of this particular discussion, I'd like to leave aside offensive, defensive and apologetical articles, please.

    Their voice is also heard loud and clear when they talk about alleged profiling, fear, or their human rights.
    Well Fouad Ajami is about the best and most notable in this country..

    After that.. It's very thin.

    As for Muslims even speaking up it's super-rare, as for them Doing something about their religion on the Rampage... it's hopeless.
    The West and the many affected/infected parts of the Third World, will have to defend themselves from these 10th century Tribalists and their Co-religionists who not only refuse to act, but to continue to even deny their is a problem. A significant portion of the whole religion doesn't even think bin Laden committed 9/11.

    Perhaps the forced installation of Democracy into places like Iraq will help. But probably not alot. Majority Muslim states have a way of becoming oppressive regardless of the form of Government.

  12. #12
    andak01
    Guest
    And of course that never happens anywhere else? Of the 250 or so nations of the world, how many would not be considered oppressive by American standards?

  13. #13
    abu afak
    Guest
    Originally posted by andak01
    And of course that never happens anywhere else? Of the 250 or so nations of the world, how many would not be considered oppressive by American standards?
    Originally posted by abu afak


    As for Muslims even speaking up it's super-rare, as for them Doing something about their religion on the Rampage... it's hopeless.
    The West and the many affected/infected parts of the Third World, will have to defend themselves from these 10th century Tribalists and their Co-religionists who not only refuse to act, but to continue to even deny their is a problem. A significant portion of the whole religion doesn't even think bin Laden committed 9/1

    >>CONTINUE TO EVEN DENY THERE IS A PROBLEM......<<

  14. #14
    andak01
    Guest
    As for Muslims even speaking up it's super-rare, as for them Doing something about their religion on the Rampage... it's hopeless.


    http://www.israelforum.com/board/sho...&threadid=2497

    And yet here we have examples of Muslims risking their lives against the terrorists in Kuwait, in Pakistan, in Yemen. Cooperating on a national level in Morocco. There are Muslim informants in America that have stopped over 100 attacks this year, according to the FBI's own assessment. How long do you think you will have to lie before it becomes the truth? Isn't having a shootout with terrorists when a Muslim policeman is killed doing something? Isn't sentencing Daniel Pearl's murderers to death under Shari'a law in Pakistan doing something? Isn't turning in a bomber before he can strike doing something?

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