Iraqi resistance against aggressors

[takeo]

Seems like the iraqi forces are defending their country and are determined to fight back the much stronger ennemy. 100's of 1000's of civilians have been trained to join the defense of Bagdad, and some volunteers for suicide-missions have been recruited as well. Iraqi will not give their country for free, aggressors will have to pay a price in blood for their crime. Hopefully the masterminds behind all this in the White House will not escape justice and retribution either.
POW should be held near civilian infrastructure, since bombing civilian infrastructure is forbidden by the Geneva-conventions, so it wouldn't be illegal to keep them there.

By the way, pentagon-sources confirmed Russia, not France, had exported hi-tech weapons to Iraq in order to be able to defend itself.

Up to 103 US Soldiers Killed Near Nasiriya: TV
Some 103 American soldiers were killed Sunday in a battle between US-British forces and Iraqi troops near Nasiriya in southern Iraq, Al-Arabia Satellite Channel said.



Some 103 American soldiers were killed Sunday in a battle between US-British forces and Iraqi troops near Nasiriya in southern Iraq, Al-Arabia Satellite Channel said.

The Dubai-based TV channel quoted Iranian sources as saying that the United States would be making a big mistake if they continue their campaign in such a manner.

The sources anticipated the Americans would attempt to launch an attack from another direction.

Deputy commander of US Gulf forces John Abizaid said at a Doha press conference that the coalition forces Sunday met with "toughest" resistance in the four-day campaign as 12 soldiers were listed missing in a battle with Iraq in Nasiriya, 375 km southeast of Baghdad.

He said some of the missing may have been those who appeared on the Arabic-language television network Al-Jazeera.

Abizaid said US Marines defeated an Iraqi attack Sunday "but sustained a number of killed and wounded in the sharpest engagement of the war thus far."

The Iraqi military said earlier on Sunday that 25 US and British soldiers were killed and dozens captured in fighting near Nasiriya.



Iraqi Forces Down 5 Planes, 2 Helicopters: Spokesman
Iraqi forces have shot down five planes and two helicopters of the US-led coalition forces since the war began on Thursday, an Iraqi military spokesman said Saturday.



Iraqi forces have shot down five planes and two helicopters of the US-led coalition forces since the war began on Thursday, an Iraqi military spokesman said Saturday.

The spokesman, Major General Hazim Rawi, told reporters that four of the five downed enemy planes were brought down in and around the Iraqi capital.

One helicopter was shot down in Muth, 280 kilometers south of Baghdad and the second helicopter was hit and fell to the ground in Mosul, 400 kilometers to the north of Baghdad.

Captured US soldiers from Texas, New Jersey
Al Jazeera TV on Sunday broadcast images of five prisoners, including two wounded, one of them a woman, saying they were from Texas and New Jersey.

Also shown on the television were several dead bodies, apparently of US soldiers killed in Iraq.

Three of the soldiers, captured alive by Iraqis, said they werefrom Texas, including the woman who identified herself as Shauna, aged 30, and one, a sergeant, from New Jersey. It was not immediately clear where the fifth prisoner was from.

The bodies shown were wearing bloodstained camouflage uniforms and some appeared to have bullet wounds to the head.

The sergeant and the woman said they were from the 507th Maintenance Company.

The sergeant and Shauna were shown being interviewed by Iraqi media, the captured woman soldier was wearing terrified expressionwhen interviewed, the Al Jazeera footage showed.

[Mediocrates]

Was the beginning of that post, the preaching part, part of that unattributed news byte?

[takeo]

nope, it was my own frustration of not being able to do something myself. But Iraqi's are doing a great job, both on the field and in propaganda. They'll loose anyway of course, but honorable, and inflidging heavy losses for the aggressors.

the quotes come from the people's daily.

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/20...4_113875.shtml

[Am Yisrael]

Just out of curiosity, takeo can you answer this, how many Iraqis have you met in your lifetime?

You do not distinguish between Saddams regime and Iraqi civilians from your post. Last week I met many Iraqis, some exiles, some not, from all different regions and backgrounds, and I can tell you that nearly all of them are dedicated to a US + UK war on Iraq. Some even have families in Iraq but they would still prefer Saddam gone then more terror.

[takeo]

Are those, by coincidence, Kurds?
You won't find a single Kurd defending Saddam, and a large share of the shiites and some sunnites do not like Sadam either.
I have met 100's of Iraqi's in Iraq, and a few here in France. Some do not like saddam very much, especially the ones living in exile. but all of them, except the Kurds, and certainly inside iraq, share a strong hate against the us.
according to journalists Saddam is quite popular in Bagdad and the northern regions of iraq (except where the kurds live) and has some followers in the south as well.
Opinions inside Iraq are very much divided concerning Saddam, but not concerning the us. patriottism and nationalism is very strong, and increasingly religion too (iraq was much more secular during the 80's). the US-actions during the last 10 years and the embargo pretty much helped Saddam to stay in power and refere to a foreign evil to explain all iraqi problems, while also more and more people became religious.
People are fed up with the us, all iraqi i met in iraq, both in private and in public, both adversaries and supporters of saddam, both shiites and sunnites, both Christians, atheists and fundamentalists. And Bush junior wasn't around to make an even bigger mess. I suppose today the hate is even stronger.
so it isn't exageerated saying that, faced with a much stronger ennemy, iraqi's are united.
By the way you will have to search very hard to find one man in neighbouring countries supporting this war, not even in Kouweit as it appears.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by takeo
Up to 103 US Soldiers Killed Near Nasiriya... Al-Arabia Satellite Channel said.

[...]

The Iraqi military said earlier on Sunday that 25 US and British soldiers were killed and dozens captured in fighting near Nasiriya.

[...]

Iraqi forces have shot down five planes and two helicopters of the US-led coalition forces since the war began on Thursday, an Iraqi military spokesman said Saturday.

Very impressive and, of course, highly reliable sources... Today, 103, but who knows, maybe by tomorrow your sources will announce that 250,000 American troops were killed, all by Iraqi farmers armed with nothing but their turbans.

But the Chinese Communist magazine you linked to is really the ultimate masterpiece of the reliable information you quote, takeo. "People's Daily Online." Heh.

I really didn't know that such a thing still exists after the fall of Communism, but there it is, you found it.

So far as the handful of casualties, it would be good to remember that it was solely due to U.S. forces' overly trusting nature and desire to act humanely to their enemies. They were fooled by Iraqi soldiers pretending to surrender, and apparently 4 Americans were killed and 5 taken as POWs by Iraqi forces.

I would say that the Iraqis who shot the American POWs in the head at close range and those who were questioning the American POWs, as well as those Arab savages dancing around the downed helicopter won't be around to celebrate for too much longer.

[MichaelC]

Originally posted by takeo
nope, it was my own frustration of not being able to do something myself.

I understand that there are still some who are planning to enter iraq to act as human shields.

Given your dedication to the cause, I encourage every one of us here at the Forum to take up a collection in order to provide you with one way airfare to carry you to the land of your heroic dreams.

Talk is cheap. You want to do something? So do something. Don't just stand there muttering incoherently.

Should you, unfortunately, survive, I'm sure that your valiant brothers in arms will provide for your return fare. Oh...just a minute, they'll be "toast" soon (that's American idiom) and probably not able to spare a dime.

Still, I encourage you to put your own money where your mouth is.

[takeo]

the people's daily is actually the official newspaper of the most inhabited state on earth and second economical and thirth military worldpower... not really a marginal newspaper... it is also one of the most important online-newspapers.

By the way, concerning credibility, i think the us has very little left after the numerous lies coming from from the white house, such as "tareq asis fled the country" "we conquered southern iraq", etc.


so actually you expect the iraqi to conform to the geneva-conventions while you yourself do not feel obliged to do so (not really a surprise considering your views on the palestinian-israeli conflict).

but your right newsguy, Iraqi (indeed they are Arab too, surprise!) will not wellcome us-"liberators" and will fight the aggressors as the palestinians are fighting the israeli occupiers.
So what's your next proposal, now that it becomes clear that the "liberation"- is based on nothing and iraqi do not feel liberated at all, rid iraq of "arabs" and adhere it to Eretz Israel (after all, you could make some historical claims, abraham was originally from iraq) and "transfer" the iraqi "back to the desert" where they all came from according to you.

[takeo]

mickael, i believe you, you know what "toast" means, after all you have been in Vietnam, and likely toasted quite some villagers who's only crime it was to defend their country or to have communist sympathies. indeed, conventions of Geneva...

iraq hasn't tortured the us-invaders who invaded and destroyed their country, including civilian infrastructure, they behaved more decent and civilised than the aggressors. Bush urging the iraqi to respect international law and conventions, how cynical can one be? He really lost the tiniest bit of credibility he still had all over the world.


i'm not an iraqi, so i will not offer my life for iraq, but i really wished that our president made some stronger statement by sending troops to iraq(followed by Russia and China) before the us could start the invasion. It would have prevented an aggression against iraq. france should also have provided the iraqi with anti-tank grenades and hi-tech conventional weapons as the Russians did. in order to be able to defend themselves.

your rethorics are childish, not anyone in here defending the us-position is prepared to die for bush either.

[cerulean]

Originally posted by NewsGuy
So far as the handful of casualties, it would be good to remember that it was solely due to U.S. forces' overly trusting nature and desire to act humanely to their enemies. They were fooled by Iraqi soldiers pretending to surrender, and apparently 4 Americans were killed and 5 taken as POWs by Iraqi forces.

Boy, does this sound familiar to anyone who's seen or read accounts of the IDF in Jenin and elsewhere in the West Bank and Gaza.

[takeo]

indeed, the similarity is striking. in both cases an imperialist nation invaded another country or another region in violation of international law and opposed by the local inhabitants, who do not accept the occupation and fight back.

Weapons of mass desztruction haven't found yet, iraqi's willing to sacrifice their life to stop the aggression more than enough. perhaps a new reason to legitimise the assault and continued occupation of iraq, "terrorism against "liberating-troops"(wether the iraqi want to be liberated or not seems not to be very important)?

[MichaelC]

Originally posted by takeo
mickael, i believe you, you know what "toast" means, after all you have been in Vietnam, and likely toasted quite some villagers who's only crime it was to defend their country or to have communist sympathies. indeed, conventions of Geneva...

For all you know, I was a medic while in Vietnam, who spent the entire tour tending to the care of the injured South Vietnamese. Your presumptuous statements of what people may or may not have been involved in only serve to illustrate how ill aimed and scatter shot your rhetoric is.

Originally posted by takeo
iraq hasn't tortured the us-invaders who invaded and destroyed their country, including civilian infrastructure, they behaved more decent and civilised than the aggressors.

I know you're pals with the iraqis, what with all the cheerleading you do on the sidelines (but conveniently, far from the action) for the death of Americans, but HOW could an effete and confused man such as yourself, so far from the scene, have any intel at all.

More hot air from france!

[...]

i'm not an iraqi, so i will not offer my life for iraq,

You have in your own words said that you were frustrated because you couldn't do something. Unlike you, I do not put words into the mouths of others. You said it. But I know...that like so much of what you post, it's just HOT AIR. Empty words that apparently mean nothing to your own self, which is pretty much what they mean to the rest of us.

but i really wished that our president made some stronger statement by sending troops to iraq(followed by Russia and China)

I will have to note this day on the calendar. With the exception of China, with whom I have no particular axe to grind at the moment, I am in agreement with you. (I feel like washing my mouth out with soap!!)

I sincerely would like to see both france and russia get the ass kicking that they deserve. I despise france for all the reasons that are commonly discussed here, and russia appears to be sinking back into the gutter from which they had emerged in recent years. You have such a WIERD and wholly bizarre brain if you think french troops would do anything but swoon when faced with American combat troops.

I heard a story yesterday that told of a German officer and a french officer meeting under a white flag on a battlefield. After discussing an exchange of wounded, the french officer asked the German why they wore such brilliantly hued red uniform jackets. The German officer replied, "That is so that when we are wounded the blood will be concealed and we may soldier on without discouraging the men.

The french officer nodded sagely, immediately grasping the efficacy of the tactic and walked away, muttering to himself, " I must find some brown trousers.".

That sums up the french military for a good deal of the people of the world.

[...]

[takeo]

For all you know, I was a medic while in Vietnam, who spent the entire tour tending to the care of the injured South Vietnamese. Your presumptuous statements of what people may or may not have been involved in only serve to illustrate how ill aimed and scatter shot your rhetoric is.

OK, perhaps you didn't make the toasts, your colleagues did. I have travelled exstensively in Laos and cambodia and briefly in Vietnam and the stories are still horrifying, the bombs are still very real, many unexploded, especially in Xieng Khouang.

I know you're pals with the iraqis, what with all the cheerleading you do on the sidelines (but conveniently, far from the action) for the death of Americans, but HOW could an effete and confused man such as yourself, so far from the scene, have any intel at all.

More hot air from france!

intelligence about what? I just based myself, as you did, on the images.

You have in your own words said that you were frustrated because you couldn't do something. Unlike you, I do not put words into the mouths of others. You said it. But I know...that like so much of what you post, it's just HOT AIR. Empty words that apparently mean nothing to your own self, which is pretty much what they mean to the rest of us.

hot air, perhaps, as it's only rethorics, that's why this is a forum and not a battlefield.

I will have to note this day on the calendar. With the exception of China, with whom I have no particular axe to grind at the moment, I am in agreement with you. (I feel like washing my mouth out with soap!!)

you should worry more about china, the only powerfull communist country left, and the only one challenging the position of the us as worldpower. Guess why bush doesn't attack North-Korea?

I sincerely would like to see both france and russia get the ass kicking that they deserve. I despise france for all the reasons that are commonly discussed here, and russia appears to be sinking back into the gutter from which they had emerged in recent years. You have such a WIERD and wholly bizarre brain if you think french troops would do anything but swoon when faced with American combat troops.

How pretentious. the US can't even crush poor countries with a deplorable army such as iraq and vietnam, how would you kick russia and France? Both countries have the capability to turn your dear country in a nuclear wasteland, and for sure russia will not hesitate to do so once their country gets attacked. even Bush isn't dumb and extremist enough to challenge Russia or France militarily. Attacking Iraq with French or russian troops present could easily lead to WWIII, and would lead to enormous us-casualties, as we have everything the iraqi lack, such as nukes, submareens, sattelites, long-ranging rockets, hi-tech, and lots of well equiped well trained troops.

And why would you like to attack France or Russia, because we disagreed with Bush? How democratic...

[MichaelC]

Originally posted by takeo
Attacking Iraq with French or russian troops present could easily lead to WWIII, and would lead to enormous us-casualties, as we have everything the iraqi lack, such as nukes, submareens, sattelites, long-ranging rockets, hi-tech, and lots of well equiped well trained troops.

The french, like yourself, are "legends in their own minds."

The humorous anecdote that I posted above sums up french "valor"

[takeo]

so far the us prooved they can (barely) win against small, poor thirthworld countries. "legends in their own mind"?