Home | Hmmm ... Now here's point to ponder:Originally posted by Mehmet III
Today's Zionist Israelites came from Europe and settld in Palestine (Br. Mandate) 1919-present, so if they hadnt com first, the "terrorism" wud never hav started. So the oppression began befor the terrorism.
You say the Jews came from Europe to take over the land of Israel, and yet they are not native Europeans. How did they get to Europe in the first place and what was their nation of origin?
And notice that he puts terrorism in quotations.
Sad ..
-Immigration duznt always mean oppression, but it duz in this case.IT'S THERE FALT BECAUSE .. HRM... THEY WERE THERE!!!! 111 IMMIGRATION = OPPRESSION!!!!!! THROW ROCKs AT MY FACE!!!! WHAT FIRST ALIYAH ... NO JEW SET FOOT IN PALESTINE BEFORE 1919!!!!!11111 WHAT JEWS LIVING IN ARAB LANDSSSS ,,,, NOT LIEK THERE WERE 800,000 OF THEM OR ANYTHING .. !!111??!?!?!?!?!!!1111 THEY ALL CAEM FRUM EUROEPEE AND AER DECESCEND FRUM TEH KHAZARSSS!!!!
-Im not talking about those Jews that were ther originally, im talking about the majority who were immigrants.
-The point originally is that their coming instigated the violence, regardless of their 2000 year ago origin.Originally posted by JustPat
You say the Jews came from Europe to take over the land of Israel, and yet they are not native Europeans. How did they get to Europe in the first place and what was their nation of origin?
-And even so, if u can recreate a Jewish state on the basis that they were ther 2000 yrs ago, y not go bak 3000 yrs and create a Caananite state?
Do you know any other culture that can so pointedly trace its heritage and origin?Originally posted by Mehmet III
-Immigration duznt always mean oppression, but it duz in this case.
-Im not talking about those Jews that were ther originally, im talking about the majority who were immigrants.
-The point originally is that their coming instigated the violence, regardless of their 2000 year ago origin.
-And even so, if u can recreate a Jewish state on the basis that they were ther 2000 yrs ago, y not go bak 3000 yrs and create a Caananite state?
Your absolutely brilliant commentary has everyone riveted. We are glued to our seats, holding our breath, waiting for your next stunning revelation.Originally posted by Mehmet III
-Immigration duznt always mean oppression, but it duz in this case.
-Im not talking about those Jews that were ther originally, im talking about the majority who were immigrants.
-The point originally is that their coming instigated the violence, regardless of their 2000 year ago origin.
-And even so, if u can recreate a Jewish state on the basis that they were ther 2000 yrs ago, y not go bak 3000 yrs and create a Caananite state?
What will he say next?!
Hold the Presses !!
ChineseOriginally posted by JustPat
Do you know any other culture that can so pointedly trace its heritage and origin?
Please cite the example of the Chinese family that can trace its roots 3000 years to the man. Not who can generally speak, but who can say with certainty because of meticulous records of geneology and carefully, painfully accurate historical records. As you know, those who would be priests or High Priests not only had to be able to show technical qualification, but documented lineage.Originally posted by Mehmet III
Chinese
ok, no doubt that jews originally came from israel, BUT (here it is again) no doubt either that the indians lived in the US some 600 years ago and the yankees in europe... What i mean is that this kind of discussions about thinfs that happened centuries ago are interesting for archeologists or historians, not for contemporary political debate.
zionism was certainly an insane idea, but once people build their lifes in israel, there is no way back. Still, the issue of the palestinian refugees need to be resolved urgently.
the only libanese member of this forum will confirm you that lebanon is NOT under syrian occupation. there is a difference between military presence and occupation.Lebanon is tragically not a functioning democracy; but a nation under Syrian occupation- no different than Iraqi occupation of Kuwait until its US led liberation in 1991. Lebanon was not liberated from Syria because Lebanon has no oil, so the world choose to look the other way.
Israeli citizens, including Jews, Christian and Muslim, are all full Israeli citizens. 20%, or just over a million, of Israel’s population is Arab Muslims, not to be confused with those under occupation, and enjoy full legal equality. Naturally, citizenship bestows certain rights which noncitizens, by its very definition, do not (the Arabs in the occupied territories). Israel is not a colonial state and makes no claim to have or ever have any such colonies; for colonialism is an affront to everything Israeli society stands for. The occupied territories will remain under occupation until those under occupation end the hostilities and terrorism against Israel. Unfortunately, Israel unintentionally wound up unleashing ruthless tyrannical dictator (Arafat) over those in the occupied territories which has seriously deteriated the fate of those under occupation.
people in the occupied territory do not have the israeli citizenship, still the area belongs, according to israel, to israel, isn't that a bit a weird situation?
End the hostilities? All right, but when will israel end the hostilities towards the palestinians, and stop occupying its territory? You see it's both sides who have legitimate reasons to fight eachother, and as long as one side waits for a sign of the other side nothing will happen.israel is the stronger and more devellopped of the two fighting parties, it should take some initiative...
Arafat is the legitimate and elected leader of the palestinian people, who by the way condamned all terrorist attacks. you'll have to negociate with him, like it or not.
1) Arafat does not condemn terror attacks without making a statement condemning Israelis for the terror attacks against them.Arafat is the legitimate and elected leader of the palestinian people, who by the way condamned all terrorist attacks. you'll have to negociate with him, like it or not. [/B]
2) The current Israeli government is not going to negotiate with Arafat. Id prefer he die before Israel starts negotiating again. Negotiating with Arafat is like trying to talk and have intelligent converstaions with a duck. Arafat likes to quack.
Well no, since the Jewish immigrants didn't oppress anybody but bought their own land and items and used them. The oppression began after 1967, when the leaders of Israel fell "in love" with the newly conquered biblical lands and the Palestinian people's identities were being molded into semi-Israelis. Oslo ended the oppression to begin process of building a Palestinian state. That failed. The whole process has yet to begin again and the "oppression" today is simply fighting terrorism which has brought all prospects for a Palestian state of a mere idea.Originally posted by Mehmet III
Today's Zionist Israelites came from Europe and settld in Palestine (Br. Mandate) 1919-present, so if they hadnt com first, the "terrorism" wud never hav started. So the oppression began befor the terrorism.
takeo:
I only read his columns and would be interested to read his works.
he's not evenhanded according to me, altough he has an ability to examinate the positions of the other side as well.
Eh? Again it seems that you don't know what you're talking about. Friedman is a semi-pro-Arab who wishes well for the Arab people and wants to see the oppressive Arab regimes vanish from the face of the earth. He also acknowledges the oppression of the Palestinians that took place between 1967 and the end of his book understanding why the Intifada took place. He also understands the Israeli position very well. One reason for all of this is that he knows people from both sides and knows really for who they are: human.
Tom Friedman is an example of a good reporter. He is definately one to rely on.
Originally posted by takeo
.
Arafat is the legitimate and elected leader of the palestinian people, who by the way condamned all terrorist attacks. you'll have to negociate with him, like it or not.
And the tooth fairy is a man.
-first, u cite a 3000 yr documented genealogy of JewsOriginally posted by JustPat
Please cite the example of the Chinese family that can trace its roots 3000 years to the man. Not who can generally speak, but who can say with certainty because of meticulous records of geneology and carefully, painfully accurate historical records. As you know, those who would be priests or High Priests not only had to be able to show technical qualification, but documented lineage.
-second, history is much mor than just genealogy
-third, wats ur point?
-no, wen Jews first came they bought land legally. however, this land already had inhabitants working it and the landlords were absent so Jews buying land effectively kikd out the arab ppl.Well no, since the Jewish immigrants didn't oppress anybody but bought their own land and items and used them. The oppression began after 1967, when the leaders of Israel fell "in love" with the newly conquered biblical lands and the Palestinian people's identities were being molded into semi-Israelis. Oslo ended the oppression to begin process of building a Palestinian state. That failed. The whole process has yet to begin again and the "oppression" today is simply fighting terrorism which has brought all prospects for a Palestian state of a mere idea.
-wen israel was declared a state and the pals wudnt recognize it (pals still made up most of the population of new Israel), they had to b dealt with, and so this started the formal oppression.
-the suicide bombings and intifada never began until after the 1967 war
This bizarre and contorted view of history is a testament to the educational system in Turkey. It seems that you terminated your schooling at some point, perhaps at the elementary level.Originally posted by Mehmet III
no, wen Jews first came they bought land legally. however, this land already had inhabitants working it and the landlords were absent so Jews buying land effectively kikd out the arab ppl.
-wen israel was declared a state and the pals wudnt recognize it (pals still made up most of the population of new Israel), they had to b dealt with, and so this started the formal oppression.
-the suicide bombings and intifada never began until after the 1967 war
His flimsy knowledge of history sure is a problem. I recommend that he get some further lessons on this subject.
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