And Now, Back To The War Front With France

[MichaelC]

Vandals Burn Statue of Liberty Replica in France

Wednesday, March 26, 2003
AP

BORDEAUX, France — Vandals in southwest Bordeaux torched a replica of the Statue of Liberty and cracked the pedestal of a plaque honoring victims of the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.

The crowned head of the 8-foot-tall statue was blackened by fire and its eyes were marked with red paint, apparently to symbolize tears of blood, an official at the mayor's office said.
The statue and the Sept. 11 plaque are beside each other in a square near the city center.
The mayor of the southwestern city, Alain Juppe, condemned Wednesday's pre-dawn attack, saying the statue's message is especially pertinent in wartime.
"At a time when the world is living a major conflict, it is more important than ever to remain watchful of the values of peace and liberty," said Juppe, a former prime minister.
The Lady Liberty standing in New York Harbor was a gift from France to the United States commemorating freedom and friendship between the nations. It was made by Frederic-Auguste Bartholdi and dedicated in 1886.
Today, tensions between France and the United States have flared over the war in Iraq. French people overwhelmingly oppose the U.S.-led conflict and President Jacques Chirac angered many Americans by trying to slow the U.S. drive to war.
In France, vandals have ransacked McDonald's restaurants in Paris and Strasbourg, targeting the fast food chain as a symbol of American influence.
Cafeterias in the U.S. House of Representatives subsequently changed their menus to read "freedom fries" instead of French fries and "freedom toast" instead of French toast.
Lawmakers also introduced bills preventing France from participating in any postwar reconstruction projects.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,82245,00.html

[humus_sapiens]

France is Almost Finished (By Guy Milliere)
FrontPageMagazine.com | April 10, 2003

Little by little, the French government tries to change its behavior. The smell of Allied victory wafting out of Bhagdad maybe? You can expect Chirac and Villepin to say: we have always loved the United States. We are your friends, no hard feelings... I just hope nobody will believe it in the United States. If within a few days, Chirac and Villepin say this, think about it: it’s ALL about the money. They want to try to keep some of their Iraqi contracts intact. They want the United States to go back to the United Nations where they can again paralyze you with their vetoes and their counter-proposals.

I'm sorry to say it, but nothing good for the U.S. can come from France now.

Some day in the future this may change, but the French will have to learn their lessons the hard way. They have to feel the pain, unlike the citizens of Poland. The Polish see what they owe to the United States. A little more than ten years ago, they were under the rule of a communist dictatorship and they remember it is thanks to the United States that they were freed from that nightmare. The French people will have to see what a nightmare looks like before you can take their apologies seriously.

Be patient, the nightmare is almost upon us.

Economically speaking, France is decaying, full speed. Unemployment is officially around ten per cent. If you add the people who have never worked and so are not counted for the statistics, and also add the students who study nothing useful, the right number would be way above fifteen per cent. Growth rate is now officially around one per cent, and it includes government activities: if the government component was not included, it would be easy to see that France is in depression. Her population is growing old, and no money is available to take care of the large number of senior citizens in the years to come. The greater part of young people are Muslim, not integrated with French society, and almost illiterate.

In fact, the only things that are growing in France right now are crime and Islamism. Some readers have been amazed by the fact that teenaged girls and young women in many city districts have to wear the Islamic veil if they do not want to be harassed, but it gets worse. A few weeks ago, a young Arab burnt a teenaged girl alive in the suburbs of Paris. He was convicted of murder, but he became a hero and an example for other young Arabs living in the same kind of areas. Two month ago, ten Arab men who raped another teenaged girl in another district were convicted and condemned to spend five years in jail. Yes, just five years. Their families left the court of justice shouting to the journalists it was unfair and they would look out for revenge. Eight days later, the court was burnt down during the night. The teenaged girl and her family have had to leave Paris, and hide in another part of the country.

I have written columns in the French press concerning what’s happening. The response has been death threats, with color pictures of slit throats, anti-Semitic insults. There were Muslims in France thirty years ago, but they were not like the Muslims of today. They were moderate, they did not feel they could wield decisive political power in France, they did not think they were at war against western civilization. Now it’s clear that they think they are at war. Very few people are in jail in France (France does not have enough jails), but more than sixty per cent of the convicts are Muslims, and Islamist imams visit them on a weekly basis. My wife was born in a Muslim family. She’s not a Muslim anymore, and because she left Islam, she risks being killed if she says it openly. My wife’s mother is still Muslim, but she is a moderate, and she’s afraid to be considered a traitor by the much more radical Muslims that are spreading throughout France.

Within twenty years, Muslims will be a majority in France. And if nothing changes, they will be radical Muslims.

The French government takes care of the present: it knows it cannot take care of the future because there is no future. The French government acts like a traitor to its old allies for many reasons: because it has no principles, because it needs money, but especially because it is afraid of bloody riots. France is not a sovereign nation anymore: it’s partly ruled by the mob, partly ruled from the outside by corrupting Muslim tyrants. But don’t worry, France also has no importance anymore: it can still bark, but it’s bite is more like a nip.

France is almost finished. The nightmare is almost here. France has to know the horrors of the nightmare if you want her to have a chance to wake up. Sure, you may find some exceptions to the rule. France has some decent intellectuals: but they have about the same access to the mainstream media that dissenters had in the Soviet Union twenty years ago. France has bold politicians: one, maybe two if I want to be extremely generous. France still has genuine journalists: you could count them on the fingers of one hand. For the next years, come to France if you want, visit old monuments, but do not expect to be understood or appreciated by the locals. Behave as you would in a third world country; soon France will be a third world country. Perhaps it will wake up with a start, but who knows? Right now, if you read the polls, only 53% of the French hope the U.S. army will defeat Saddam: the rest hope the United States will be defeated and Saddam will win...

Do you really want France to have a word to say in the re-building of Iraq after Saddam is defeated?

[mimil]

Originally posted by humus_sapiens

Economically speaking, France is decaying, full speed. Unemployment is officially around ten per cent. If you add the people who have never worked and so are not counted for the statistics, and also add the students who study nothing useful, the right number would be way above fifteen per cent. Growth rate is now officially around one per cent, and it includes government activities: if the government component was not included, it would be easy to see that France is in depression. Her population is growing old, and no money is available to take care of the large number of senior citizens in the years to come. The greater part of young people are Muslim, not integrated with French society, and almost illiterate.

First error, French economy is no longer dependant of French business only, and it is even truer since the introduction of the Euro currency. As long as Europe survives, France will also. France has a major position in the European union, it is part of the glue that permit the system to survive, it is geographically, politically, culturally and economically a central piece and will remain one unless the whole of Europe collapses.

Originally posted by humus_sapiens

Economically speaking, France is decaying, full speed. Unemployment is officially around ten per cent. If you add the people who have never worked and so are not counted for the statistics, and also add the students who study nothing useful, the right number would be way above fifteen per cent. Growth rate is now officially around one per cent, and it includes government activities: if the government component was not included, it would be easy to see that France is in depression. Her population is growing old, and no money is available to take care of the large number of senior citizens in the years to come. The greater part of young people are Muslim, not integrated with French society, and almost illiterate.

Have a closer look at US economy for start. Compare this with Japan. Then have a look at Great Britain, look a little what is happening in Germany and then reconsider what you just stated about France.

Originally posted by humus_sapiens

In fact, the only things that are growing in France right now are crime and Islamism. Some readers have been amazed by the fact that teenaged girls and young women in many city districts have to wear the Islamic veil if they do not want to be harassed, but it gets worse. A few weeks ago, a young Arab burnt a teenaged girl alive in the suburbs of Paris. He was convicted of murder, but he became a hero and an example for other young Arabs living in the same kind of areas. Two month ago, ten Arab men who raped another teenaged girl in another district were convicted and condemned to spend five years in jail. Yes, just five years. Their families left the court of justice shouting to the journalists it was unfair and they would look out for revenge. Eight days later, the court was burnt down during the night. The teenaged girl and her family have had to leave Paris, and hide in another part of the country.

What is that suppose to be? Another attempt to demonize the Arab population? Continue on this path and we will soon have a couple of other nut leaders who will attempt to purify all this.

Originally posted by humus_sapiens
Within twenty years, Muslims will be a majority in France. And if nothing changes, they will be radical Muslims.

Maybe it’s been too long I haven’t been to France to notice that trend. There is a difference between radical Muslim and street crime.

Originally posted by humus_sapiens
The French government takes care of the present: it knows it cannot take care of the future because there is no future. The French government acts like a traitor to its old allies for many reasons: because it has no principles, because it needs money, but especially because it is afraid of bloody riots. France is not a sovereign nation anymore: it’s partly ruled by the mob, partly ruled from the outside by corrupting Muslim tyrants. But don’t worry, France also has no importance anymore: it can still bark, but it’s bite is more like a nip.

You are actually playing their game, French would love to be seen as a country that can no longer act, as it is the furthest from the truth and will enable them to continue acting without notice. They somehow manage to raise the entire public opinion against the US, and a whole bunch of leaders also, what about that for a nip.

Originally posted by humus_sapiens
France is almost finished. The nightmare is almost here. France has to know the horrors of the nightmare if you want her to have a chance to wake up. Sure, you may find some exceptions to the rule. France has some decent intellectuals: but they have about the same access to the mainstream media that dissenters had in the Soviet Union twenty years ago. France has bold politicians: one, maybe two if I want to be extremely generous. France still has genuine journalists: you could count them on the fingers of one hand. For the next years, come to France if you want, visit old monuments, but do not expect to be understood or appreciated by the locals. Behave as you would in a third world country; soon France will be a third world country. Perhaps it will wake up with a start, but who knows? Right now, if you read the polls, only 53% of the French hope the U.S. army will defeat Saddam: the rest hope the United States will be defeated and Saddam will win...

Do you really want France to have a word to say in the re-building of Iraq after Saddam is defeated?

53% of the population is openly saying FU America, it’s a little different. As a matter of fact, France will be around for a very long time, and you will have to get use to it regardless of how much you don’t like it. They won’t help in rebuilding Iraq, well, the German might, if not it will be the Spanish, and eventually the British, it is all the same. Take a cup of wine, and a deep breath, France is here to stay, and will be there long after you are gone.

[Mediocrates]

I tend to agree that France and/or Germany will see the rise of a legitimate radical Islamist political party in the next 20 years. This will run in parallel with the ascendency of senior political offices filled by moderate yet openly and primariily Islamic elected candidates. Moderates will open the door and radicals will rush in.

[mimil]

I am not convinced Mediocrates, even so the arab population is growing, their representation at various high level of the society is far from representative.
A Muslim council has been created in france to create a link between the government and the muslim world, maybe you could see it as an attempt to stop what you are mentioning. Still, I have no memory of a political party that was representative of race. The differences in France are more based on class than race. Besides joining unions is a better way to achieve such goals.
Other way to maintain the political class is to keep abstention level very high just as they are right now.

[yoyo]

Originally posted by mimil
Still, I have no memory of a political party that was representative of race. The differences in France are more based on class than race. Besides joining unions is a better way to achieve such goals.
Other way to maintain the political class is to keep abstention level very high just as they are right now.

That is false. The PMF (Parti Musulman de France) is there and its week end entertainement is to demonstrate with calls to murder (Jews/Zionists/Israel). France system is not all based on class, "the arabs" are a distinct fragment of the French population. And it has all to do with religion & culture since Jews coming from North Africa have been far more succeful with less money to begin with than muslim immigrants.

[mimil]

Originally posted by yoyo
That is false. The PMF (Parti Musulman de France) is there and its week end entertainement is to demonstrate with calls to murder (Jews/Zionists/Israel). France system is not all based on class, "the arabs" are a distinct fragment of the French population. And it has all to do with religion & culture since Jews coming from North Africa have been far more succeful with less money to begin with than muslim immigrants.

Hi yoyo,

I had never heard of them until today. And went to do some research on the topic. I have not found any account of people from this party being elected anywhere, if you have any info, please provide. How representative is the party? How many members? Any clue of any link with conventional parties? Plan for the future?

What I have found so is some samples of tracks that they distribute on the street. The basic idea is Zionist = nazi. It sounds like a great achievement again. Thanks for the info.

[humus_sapiens]

Originally posted by mimil
[...] The basic idea is Zionist = nazi.

That's French Muslims? No, absolutely impossible!! They're so peaceful and tolerant...

[cerulean]

Originally posted by yoyo
That is false. The PMF (Parti Musulman de France) is there and its week end entertainement is to demonstrate with calls to murder (Jews/Zionists/Israel).

Do they make these calls in Arabic or French or both? Either way, many of the Jewish residents of France would be able to understand them, of course, since many are from Arabic-speaking countries. But if made only in Arabic, I suppose French officials might argue inability to understand.

French/EU hate speech laws should be applicable -- but it sounds like no one is applying them. Have there been any successful prosecutions of such speech under hate speech legislation?

[mimil]

Originally posted by cerulean
Do they make these calls in Arabic or French or both? Either way, many of the Jewish residents of France would be able to understand them, of course, since many are from Arabic-speaking countries. But if made only in Arabic, I suppose French officials might argue inability to understand.

French/EU hate speech laws should be applicable -- but it sounds like no one is applying them. Have there been any successful prosecutions of such speech under hate speech legislation?

I have not found anything mentioning that they use Arabic for their speech. Nevertheless, there is no official web site, most of the info available on the net is some associations denouncing the ideas. I also found a forum that is controlled by the PMF.

To go back to what yoyo was saying, the only party to openly oppose them is the extreme right. In France the PS (Socialist party) joined in a manifestation with the PMF. I agree, this doesn't smell too good.

[yoyo]

Originally posted by mimil
Hi yoyo,

I had never heard of them until today. And went to do some research on the topic. I have not found any account of people from this party being elected anywhere, if you have any info, please provide. How representative is the party? How many members? Any clue of any link with conventional parties? Plan for the future?

What I have found so is some samples of tracks that they distribute on the street. The basic idea is Zionist = nazi. It sounds like a great achievement again. Thanks for the info.

Je suppose que tu es Francais?

http://www.proche-orient.info/xjourn...d_article=9455

The fact is that they do exists and that they do represent the view of the standard maghrebin on the street of France (talk to them).

[mimil]

Originally posted by yoyo

The fact is that they do exists and that they do represent the view of the standard maghrebin on the street of France (talk to them).

That might be hard, it's been a while I havn't been to France. From what I remember, I had never meat any maghrebin that mention anything about the party or any idea that represent it. The reason can be that we were too young to even bother with politics.

As for the web site, I have read from it today. It's almost the only one that has relevant info. Their is a couple of other articles also on the same topic.

[yoyo]

That is sure, the silence of the media on such event is unmistakable. They did report, after months of synaguogue burning, on those kind of events, until Le Pen came on the second round of the presidential election. Then silence again. But it is happening and it is happening often. http://www.proche-orient.info tends to report it.

Even though the PMF represents, as far as I can see, the majority of the maghrebine population in France, I think they got 20000 maybe 30000 membres, but it is growing. The fact is they exists and in a republique where the church and the state are separated they are alone "the religious party".

Originally posted by mimil
That might be hard, it's been a while I havn't been to France. From what I remember, I had never meat any maghrebin that mention anything about the party or any idea that represent it. The reason can be that we were too young to even bother with politics.

As for the web site, I have read from it today. It's almost the only one that has relevant info. Their is a couple of other articles also on the same topic.

[mimil]

Originally posted by yoyo
That is sure, the silence of the media on such event is unmistakable. They did report, after months of synaguogue burning, on those kind of events, until Le Pen came on the second round of the presidential election. Then silence again. But it is happening and it is happening often. http://www.proche-orient.info tends to report it.

Even though the PMF represents, as far as I can see, the majority of the maghrebine population in France, I think they got 20000 maybe 30000 membres, but it is growing. The fact is they exists and in a republique where the church and the state are separated they are alone "the religious party".

Yep, nothing to cheer up about really. It's amazing how politics always keep a lot of things under cover and reveal a little when they find it necessary. But still never too much. If you don't play the same game, they call to conspiracy and lack of judgement.

When you read on this forum you often hear that all Arabs are evil, that they are to blame and that they must disappear. When you listen to them, they say exactly the opposite. If you are moderate, than you give an advantage to the extremists, if not you become one yourself. It's really going nowhere. It is quite disturbing after all.