hey, sorry if this has been covered...
but if the palestinians only goal is for israel to leave the west bank and what not...
why were they so quick to reject what barak offered them?
takeo? you seem to know this kinda stuff...
Home | hey, sorry if this has been covered...
but if the palestinians only goal is for israel to leave the west bank and what not...
why were they so quick to reject what barak offered them?
takeo? you seem to know this kinda stuff...
*LOL*
Hey Victot,
If fatty ever accepted a deal and made them a state... they could no longer be viewed as victims... and would have no longer have an excuse for their infanta. (keep forgetting how to spell that curse word)
well, i have a feeling that's what happenned...
but i do want someone with less of a pro-israel bias to answer...
the offer was made before the intifada started, but i think the palestinians just weren't prepared to live by a deal made to israel...
i think they do want to be viewed as victims, which will always have an excuse to attack israel...
oh well
Did of you examine the proposals that Barak laid down?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Israel loves to say in each and every negotiation that Palestinian refugees have no right to return. The right to return has been passed by the UN, but who cares what the world says? This is an obvious case of apartheid practice on behalf of Israel. Russian Jews who have no heritage in Palestine (other than being Jewish) can easily go to Israel and receive a permanent residency. I, for example, have cultural roots and Islamic ties to that land ( Yes, I'm a Palestinian Muslim. The latter part is far more important than the former, though.). However, thanks to good all Israeli policy if I were to visit my hometown of Al-Beirah, I have a 3 month visa then I must leave. Is this justice? I am not even a refugee, and this treatment is what I have to face. Imagine what refugees must go through whom were driven in 1948 by Zionist gangs. Also, the "Intifada" started when Sharon with 1,000 guards made a "visit" to Al-Aqsa. Just place Sadam Hussein "visiting" the wall with a 1,000 guards. I can assure you CNN will cover it for a month.
The UN also stated the right of Israel to live in peace and asked Palestinian to stop suicide bombing that kills ONLY innocent. Have the Palestinian listened? Who now don't care with the world's decision?Originally posted by Thair
The right to return has been passed by the UN, but who cares what the world says? This is an obvious case of apartheid practice on behalf of Israel.
Ask the suicide bombers to stop killing innocent, and life can be better and probably ONLY THAN can you stay in your town more than 3 months with one way or another!Originally posted by Thair
However, thanks to good all Israeli policy if I were to visit my hometown of Al-Beirah, I have a 3 month visa then I must leave. Is this justice?
You make the claim to cultural and religious ties to Israel, so why can't Russian Jews, who may have an even stronger claim.Originally posted by Thair
This is an obvious case of apartheid practice on behalf of Israel. Russian Jews who have no heritage in Palestine (other than being Jewish) can easily go to Israel and receive a permanent residency. I, for example, have cultural roots and Islamic ties to that land ( Yes, I'm a Palestinian Muslim. The latter part is far more important than the former, though.). However, thanks to good all Israeli policy if I were to visit my hometown of Al-Beirah, I have a 3 month visa then I must leave. Is this justice? I am not even a refugee, and this treatment is what I have to face. Also, the "Intifada" started when Sharon with 1,000 guards made a "visit" to Al-Aqsa.
Furthermore the nonsense you spew about Sharon visiting Har-ha Bayit (The Temple Mount) is unreasonable in its unspoken assertion that a Jew has no right to visit the holiest site for Jews. That is just ridiculous. It has already been documented that Arafat was going to launch the second intifada regardless of Sharon's behavior.
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Continued from the last post
Let's return for a moment to your mention of a visa. There is nothing unusual in a country issuing a 3 month visa for a visit. That means that you are not being denied entry (try being Jewish and going to Mecca or Medina) and that you have every opportunity to request an extension be it through a student or work visa.
I am not going to bury my head in the sand and say that everything is hunky-dory. But from where I sit it looks awfully strange for Palestinians to complain about the US and Israel and not about their fellow Arabs who could care less about them.
Egypt and Jordan illegally occupied Israeli land from '48-'67. During that time they never offered it to the Palestinians. why is that? Why has there never been a Palestinian nation governed by Palestinians. History says that someone is making up a story here, and its not Israel.
First of all, a Palestinian with religious ties has more right to a land than a Russian with only religious ties. How can I say that? Two ties > one tie. See, simple math.
Also, to reply to one of my repliants, Sharon can "visit." "1,000 guards" does not equal "visit." They equal an incursion. The reason its good to be a Palestinian American is that I hear both sides of the story, more or less. I hear the rubbish on CNN, and then I watch Al Jazeera and saw worshippers in Al Aqsa mosque throwing shoes at "Sharon's guards." Also, if Israelis are outraged at the Passover incident, must I remind them that they set the precedent. Al Aqsa mosque was burned by Israeli soldiers and in Hebron if I am correct an "insane" Jew slaughtered the worshippers. From now on, by the above standard, the man who attacked people at Passover is also insane. In keeping with the spirit of lack of double standards (America's favorite tool), it is only fair to equate people who attack worshippers from either side as insane.
As far as someone remarking about the 3 month visa, it is very unusual. Why can a Russian Jew live there forever, while I have to go every 3 months? "Stop the suicide bombers," one of you thoughtfully commented. Well, govern with justice, and people will not attack you. Did it ever occur to any of you that people hate Americans and Israelis because of lack of justice -or double standard (French can't stand Americans, and Germans can't stand any of the mentioned)? Nobody hates Canadians, for example, because they mind their own business and do not seek to subjugate the world or in Israel's case, the Middle East.
As far as Jordan and Egypt, they are puppet states created by colonial powers. If one wants to attack corrrupt, good-for-nothing Arab leaders, the British liers are far more worthy of attack (1918 - 1948, 30 years compared to 19). After WWI, the Arabs were to be united in one nation. Of course, that spelled disaster for the West who did not want such a super power in the region. The solution was good all divide and conquer. Thus, one has Jordan, Egypt, Syria, and other ridiculos nations formed out of one unified nation.
<First of all, a Palestinian with religious ties has more right to a land than a Russian with only religious ties. How can I say that? Two ties > one tie. See, simple math. >
No, that is not really true, nor nccessarily accurate. We can draw a genetic line through the ages to the Cohenim (priestly class) which we have factual evidence lived in Israel.
DNA testing has shown that Jews of the priestly class have a genetic connection and history. A history that we can tie right back into Israel, making two ties, which equals your so called two ties.
IF you want to play historical games we can go back to discussing the fine Muslim game of "lets build a mosque on top of a church/and or synagogue and declare it Muslim holy land." Truth is that Al-Aqsa was illegally built on top of the Temple Mount as was the Dome of the Rock, but you don't want to talk about that.
What about the Arab riots in Hebron, say the ones in 1929. How do you explain the murderous spree they went on there. No occupation, no IDF to blame.
Sorry, there is nothing unusual about a three month visa. I am Jewish and I cannot expect to get more than a three month visa in Israel without going through the proper channels, ie Student or work visa. That is common in most countries.Originally posted by Thair
As far as someone remarking about the 3 month visa, it is very unusual. Why can a Russian Jew live there forever, while I have to go every 3 months? "Stop the suicide bombers," one of you thoughtfully commented. Well, govern with justice, and people will not attack you. Did it ever occur to any of you that people hate Americans and Israelis because of lack of justice -or double standard (French can't stand Americans, and Germans can't stand any of the mentioned)? Nobody hates Canadians, for example, because they mind their own business and do not seek to subjugate the world or in Israel's case, the Middle East.
As far as Jordan and Egypt, they are puppet states created by colonial powers. If one wants to attack corrrupt, good-for-nothing Arab leaders, the British liers are far more worthy of attack (1918 - 1948, 30 years compared to 19). After WWI, the Arabs were to be united in one nation. Of course, that spelled disaster for the West who did not want such a super power in the region. The solution was good all divide and conquer. Thus, one has Jordan, Egypt, Syria, and other ridiculos nations formed out of one unified nation.
To say otherwise is just ignorant. And your comment about Jordan and Egypt being puppet states is just laughable. Why, because King Hussein had to line up Arafats men and shoot them to stop a little coup. Because Nasser and has big mouth started a number of little skirmishes that they could not finish.
The Arab countries at best are corrupt third world dictatorships who foster hatred against Israel to protect themselves. Notice that they have kept Palestinians in refugee camps. Did you ever wonder what happened to the millions of European refugees after WW2. They were taken care of because Europe didn't have any interest in protecting corrupt governments based upon lies.
Of course the Europeans have their own issues and are lucky not to be bowing down to Hitler idols.
hey thair, i think it's cool that you are palestinian...
i find it hard to listen to leftists, or "do-gooders" or arabs/muslims who aren't palestinian who relentlessly villafy israel, cuz i dunno...
i think they should mind their own business... the only people who i think israel should feel bad about, or feel guilty for are the palestinians... so it is cool that you are one.
anyways... jews only have 1 country, and that is israel. when they took the land from the palestinians, at the time, it was sort of in self-defense, escaping from the ruins of the holocaust and what not...
and they were attacked by various arab armies at the time, weren't they? war of independance? it was that war that lead to the refugee problem.
if all the palestinian refugees returned, it would be an arab country, and not a jewish country. there are many arab countries, and only the 1 jewish country...
and as far as racism or aparthied goes... i don't understand that argument so much in this care... that's all the jews have.
israel's existance, as it is now, would so radically change if all the refugees returned... israel is not refusing refugees cuz of economic, or convenience reasons... israel would ceast to exist as it does today if the refugees returned.
couldn't something be worked out with the palestinian refugees other than the return back to israel?
if israel took back all the refugees, i don't see why arafat, or anyone else would care about any other issue... oh well.
i guess the grudge is for palestinians to bear... but asking israel to accept terms which would lead to such a radical change in its identity... i dunno ... that's a lot to ask of a country, particularly since it is the only one of its kind...
given how tremendously important israel is for jews... don't be surprised if just blowing up israeli civilians leads to a strong military response.
i wish "fairness" could be worked out some other way.
anyways, about the united states... i do think they try to be moral and fair...
if the united states didn't help israel, israel would probably have been obliterated by now...
and with the exception of stopping the obliteration of israel, they aren't even that pro-israel. they are a sweet allie for israel to have, don't get me wrong, but they aren't that passionate.
peace out i suppose...
Thair, believe me when I say that I do not think that Israel is completely blameless. But our claim is just as strong if not stronger.
For better or worse things happened in 1948. If you look at both sides and consider that the truth is in the middle than you can say that both are entitled to a state.
The problem is that so many bad things have happened it is hard to trust anyone. Without trust, how can we move forward.
When we look at the situation as objectively as possible Israel and the Jews are not being offered a bounty for killing Palestinians. No one will pay my father if I decide to go and kill Palestinian children.
In Europe Jews are not burning down Mosques.
Why should we believe that Palestinians are going to leave us in peace.
Apparently, some people slept through world history class. As far as your problem with the three month visa, can you honestly tell me that if you applied for a citizenship that you would be denied? I can probably apply for student vias and that sort, but the right to live in my country is out of the question. Also, it has been common practice for Israel to import Jews. Take Ethiopia, for example. People from this country are Jews who are treated like dirt in Israel because of skin color. Nevetheless, Israel needed people to populate the land. After all, Israelis are a small bunch. Why do you think they're terrified in Israel even though they have a 2.5 to 1 kill ratio ( 1000 Palestinians, 400 Israelis)? Its because Israeli growth population cannot support those deaths ( By the way, a proof of how Europen Israelis are).
As far as refugee camps, hello anyone there? Negotiations with Israelis and Palestinians have failed because of unwilling resolve on Israeli side not to let Palestinians back into their homes while Russians can come as they please.
As far as Arabs regimes, they are corrupt cowards like their Israeli counterparts. As far as Al Aqsa, Jews have no authentic, unbiased proof that their temple built by Solomon was bulit there. In fact, if you look at the wall, it was preserved by Omar bin Khattab. He said let all of the Abrahamic religions worship there, for the Christians made it a pigstyle. Also, if you examine the history of Jerusalem (assuming that I for the moment will entertain your ridiculous notion), it is full of people buliding over rubble. Do you wish to blame Arabs for building on rubble ( Correct me if I am wrong but the Romans leveled your beloved temple. So now people must reserve the land for 2000 years for Zionists to come and claim?) Also, have you heard of the Cananites (Arabs)? I am quite sure that you know they lived in Palestine long before Jews. No, Abraham was not a Jew for the Torah came to Moses and NOT Abraham. Thus, if you check your facts, you will realize that you repeat rubbish poured into the minds of children. Also, why don't you brush up on imperialism and mercantilism before you come criticizing?
Your ability to express yourself coherently is apparently limited. What you have been saying is that it is unfair for you to be given a three month visa. You have not tried to discuss whether you could become a citizen.Originally posted by Thair
Apparently, some people slept through world history class. As far as your problem with the three month visa, can you honestly tell me that if you applied for a citizenship that you would be denied? I can probably apply for student vias and that sort, but the right to live in my country is out of the question. Also, it has been common practice for Israel to import Jews. Take Ethiopia, for example. People from this country are Jews who are treated like dirt in Israel because of skin color. Nevetheless, Israel needed people to populate the land. After all, Israelis are a small bunch. Why do you think they're terrified in Israel even though they have a 2.5 to 1 kill ratio ( 1000 Palestinians, 400 Israelis)? Its because Israeli growth population cannot support those deaths ( By the way, a proof of how Europen Israelis are).
As far as refugee camps, hello anyone there? Negotiations with Israelis and Palestinians have failed because of unwilling resolve on Israeli side not to let Palestinians back into their homes while Russians can come as they please.
As far as Arabs regimes, they are corrupt cowards like their Israeli counterparts. As far as Al Aqsa, Jews have no authentic, unbiased proof that their temple built by Solomon was bulit there. In fact, if you look at the wall, it was preserved by Omar bin Khattab. He said let all of the Abrahamic religions worship there, for the Christians made it a pigstyle. Also, if you examine the history of Jerusalem (assuming that I for the moment will entertain your ridiculous notion), it is full of people buliding over rubble. Do you wish to blame Arabs for building on rubble ( Correct me if I am wrong but the Romans leveled your beloved temple. So now people must reserve the land for 2000 years for Zionists to come and claim?) Also, have you heard of the Cananites (Arabs)? I am quite sure that you know they lived in Palestine long before Jews. No, Abraham was not a Jew for the Torah came to Moses and NOT Abraham. Thus, if you check your facts, you will realize that you repeat rubbish poured into the minds of children. Also, why don't you brush up on imperialism and mercantilism before you come criticizing?
There may be a legitimate question of whether you would be given citizenship, but since you have been arguing about whether you should be given a visa of indefinite length we never got to that.
Israel did encourage Jews to return home. No argument there. We have every right to return to our land. As to the treatment of some of the Jews by others, it is shameful. But it would be false to claim that it was the norm.
You are right Palestianians are averaging about 35 kids per house, as opposed to 3 or 4 per Israeli. The racist in me wants to say that is because 20 of the Palestinian children will go on to become suicide bombers. I am ashamed that I wrote that and embarrassed that my anger allows me to dehumanize people, but there it is.
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