Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 30 of 30

Thread: why was arafat so quick to reject barak's proposal??

  1. #16
    Shuki
    Guest
    continued from above

    And before it slips my mind let us not forget that the Jews who lived in Arab lands were abused by the Arabs that lived there. Are we to forget reparations for those Jews that lost their land there.

    The refugee camp problem is not limited to blaming Israel. What happened during 48'-67? Egypt and Jordan didn't run around offering the non-existent Palestinian people land, nor did they encourage refugees to come back.

    For that matter a large number left their homes because they believed the rhetoric that the mighty Arab armies would push the Zionists into the sea. War is hell, especially if you end on the wrong side. You fight, you lose, you get nothing and nobody loses sleep over it.

    There has been a continuous Jewish presence in Jerusalem and the rest of Israel, or did you forget that. There is unbiased historical proof that the Temple did exist on the Temple mount. Just as there is proof that Muslims have a thing for building their mosques on top of Jewish and christian holy places. Ask the christians in Nazareth, it still happens today.

    Abraham was the first Jew. But you won't believe that because it doesn't jibe with what you want. I'll be kind enough not to bash Mohammed and call him a thief of ideas and religion provided you try not to tell me about my religion.

  2. #17
    Shuki
    Guest
    Originally posted by Thair


    As far as Arabs regimes, they are corrupt cowards like their Israeli counterparts.
    Originally posted by Thair
    Also, have you heard of the Cananites (Arabs)? I am quite sure that you know they lived in Palestine long before Jews.
    If Palestinians want to claim that they are descendants of Cananites then Jews can as well. If you think that there wasn't any intermixing of Jewish and Cananite blood you are fooling yourself.

    Just bear in mind that while your ancestors were busy engaging in human sacrifice and all sorts of unholy practices we were running the show in Jewrusalem.

  3. #18
    Thair
    Guest
    Name calling gets you nowhere. If what you say is true, it is merely because I am quite young (I will NOT strap explosives to myself and kill Israelis, so don't urinate in your pants). As far as Abraham, he NEVER received the Torah. Judaism started with the TORAH, and even though Christians and Jews love to say Abraham was so and so, they are flat out wrong (Like the claim Hagar was Abraham's concubine). If Abraham was a Jew, what was his book? Are you telling me Abraham had a copy of the Old Testament? Also, look in Westen sources and you can easily find that Mohammad was the greatest man. Also, an illiterate man cannot "steal" ideas found in other religions and cleverly leave all the rubbish they believe in out. Study the life of Mohammad before you incur the wrath of Allah.

    Ask the Christians if they love the Israeli army tearing them up and preventing them from celebrating a normal Easter.

  4. #19
    Shuki
    Guest
    Originally posted by Thair
    Name calling gets you nowhere. If what you say is true, it is merely because I am quite young (I will NOT strap explosives to myself and kill Israelis, so don't urinate in your pants). As far as Abraham, he NEVER received the Torah. Judaism started with the TORAH, and even though Christians and Jews love to say Abraham was so and so, they are flat out wrong (Like the claim Hagar was Abraham's concubine). If Abraham was a Jew, what was his book? Are you telling me Abraham had a copy of the Old Testament? Also, look in Westen sources and you can easily find that Mohammad was the greatest man. Also, an illiterate man cannot "steal" ideas found in other religions and cleverly leave all the rubbish they believe in out. Study the life of Mohammad before you incur the wrath of Allah.

    Ask the Christians if they love the Israeli army tearing them up and preventing them from celebrating a normal Easter.
    You say that you are young, perhaps that is why you don't understand that you cannot define who or when or what I am or when my religion started.

    Abraham has always been accepted by Jews as the first Jew. The fact that he did not receive the Torah has nothing to do with anything. There is no requirement for him to have had a "book" to be considered a Jew. Although he did have a social security number.

    There is no old testament. That is a title people gave my bible to minimize it. It is there way of trying to claim that they had something better. It is the same thing as you trying to claim that Abraham was not the first Jew.

    Perhaps we should return to the old argument that there are no Palestinians, just Arabs in which case the refugees can go back to any Arab country, because they are all the same.

    I am glad to hear that you have enough sense not to blow yourself up. Murdering women and children is such a honorable thing to do. suicide bombers rot in hell.

    Mohammad was a man, the greatest is debatable. If he was so great why didn't everyone convert to Islam. If he was so great why did he marry little girls, couldn't he find someone his own age.

    I have no fear of allah. Jews don't need to threaten people with the fear of their G-d. We have more security then that. Although it does strike me that there are a few Egyptian corpses rotting at the bottom of the Yam Soof that might have strong feelings.

    I could care less what the crusading christians think. their ancestors were so very afraid of mine that they began rumors that we killed their lord, and went around spreading all sorts of other ills about Jews.

    Well, you didn't kill us then and you won't kill us now. There is an old Jewish joke that says that every Jewish holiday we tell a story about someone who tried to kill us and couldn't. THe telling is always followed by a festive meal.

    Well, I think that this will be another one of those stories. SOmeone pass some brisket.

  5. #20
    Flame
    Guest
    According to Jewish legend... Abraham recieved torah orally which was passed down until Moses. However, according to Jewish tradition, Adam recieved torah first.

    It's a fallacy that the story of "Adam and Eve" is about creation of the first people. WHen you look at the story and are confused... where did their sons find wives if they were the first??? This is because the story is about the mother and father of Judaism (not the first humans on earth)... and spiritually there are many other levels that I have not studied and can not comment on.

  6. #21
    Thair
    Guest
    Alright, people here have no respect for religion. If you wish to continue to debate, leave any insinuations and insults about Mohammad or Islam out. If you have a misconception, I'll gladly clarify it. However, I cannot continue to debate since my religion prohibits me from insulting Moses and other Prophets while your religion doesn't prohibit insulting Mohammad and Islam. If I were to continue in such a manner it would be a grave sin on my behalf. Thus, lay off the insults, and I will provide a view that disagrees with your point of view. As far as attacking me personally, I see it only as a minor childish acts. Also, if people want me off, just post it or contact a moderator. That's all, so leave Mohammad and Islam out of it. (One might say that I use Islam as part of my arguments. One must understand Islam is very important to my upbringing. Where did I learn to become a "fanatic?" One can blaim to a small degree racist comments I received in elementary school during the Persian Gulf War, i.e. I am not accepted as an American, rather I am a Saudi Arabian who is Saddam's nephew. Islam doesn't teach racism).

    I will post this at other places where I post so people may not miss it. As far as my comment to Ezra, I was offended by the word "crab." Islam is a way of life, so politics is included.

    Aaishah was 16ish, the view most Islamic sholars hold, when she married Mohammad. She was engaged prior for three years.

    For a historic note, the three tribes in Al Madinah were kicked out except the last tribe. On this tribe, the Torah was applied on them when they became a fifth column for the attacking Meccans.

    As for Christian ancestors, I wouldn't venture there. According to Jewish sources, 6,000,000 Jews died ( I simply cannot comprehend the magnitude when Germany had only 0.5 million) at the hands of Hitler. Although he was part Jewish, he is probably classified as a "Christian" at best and atheist or "Jew" at worst.

  7. #22
    cerulean
    Guest
    Originally posted by Thair

    As for Christian ancestors, I wouldn't venture there. According to Jewish sources, 6,000,000 Jews died ( I simply cannot comprehend the magnitude when Germany had only 0.5 million) at the hands of Hitler. Although he was part Jewish, he is probably classified as a "Christian" at best and atheist or "Jew" at worst.
    I'm not sure exactly what you are getting at. I don't know exactly how many Jews there were in Germany, but assuming your figures were correct, there were still three million Jews in Poland before WWII and a few thousand afterwards. What do you think happened to these people?

    Besides Poland, Jews from the the Baltic States, Eastern Europe, the Balkans, Germany, France, Holland, and other European countries were also subject to extermination. And of course there were also six million non-Jews who also died in the Holocaust. You may wish to take a look at the http://www.nizkor.org/
    site.

    Hitler's religious beliefs are a subject of controversy, but it appears he was baptized a Catholic. Where do you derive the idea he was Jewish?

  8. #23
    Flame
    Guest
    So much for a university education Thair... hitler's regime swept though ALL of Europe.
    The concentration camps were mostly in german, poland and austria... but were also scattered thoughout Europe... about 300 I think.

    11 million people in all perished.
    Hundreds of Jewish villages were emptied and taken by the non-Jews... talk about stolen homes, businesses, and land! Everything was convescated and the Jews themselves ended up paying for the train ride to the camps. Not only that but during hitlers sweep of Europe... the nazis raided every museum they could get their hands on and cleaned them out too.

    hilter was raised a catholic.

  9. #24
    victot
    Guest
    holocaust denial talk (or holocaust gross exagerated talk) is very weak...

  10. #25
    Flame
    Guest
    Thair... you do know that there was a muslim faction of the nazi army... yes? and that arafats uncle the grand mufti worked very closely with hitler? That they planned to kill all the Jews in the region before Israel was re-born? And when that didn't work you do know that several arab nations attacked Israel in less than 24 hours of being a soverign nation?

  11. #26
    Thair
    Guest
    Almost everybody knows Hilter's grandfather or somebody was Jewish. What I really met was that it would have been horrible if he were Jewish especially and it should be Christians (not atheist) when he did what he did. If he were an atheist, no one would attack a religion like Catholics were attacked for sitting back. As far as Muslims, first I must talk about Rabbis who gave the Nazis the list of Jews in the area. If they did work with the Nazis, that was pretty stupid because I am sure Hitler would have focused attentions elsewhere if he ever had control of the Middle East.

    In my American histroy class two years ago I learned Germay had the largest Jewish population for Western Europe which was .5 million. I just wondered about the other 5.5 million. If your facts that Poland had 3 million Jews are correct, then the figures make sense.

    I'm throwing in the towel. Go pat yourselves on the back.I find it to my disadvantage to debate with unseen opponents ( a plethora). Don't get me wrong. I still believe I am as 100% correct as you believe in your facts when I first came (yesterday). AsI explained in a previous post, the risk factor is too high for me, and I feel like I'm talking with stones. All well...

  12. #27
    Senior Member NewsGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    4,821
    Originally posted by Thair
    Almost everybody knows Hilter's grandfather or somebody was Jewish.
    By "almost everyone" do you mean gullible Arabs and neo-Nazis? Because everyone else who can actually read and write, knows that is a myth.

    Besides, what does all this holocaust denial have to do with Arabs mass murdering Jews in the streets of Israel today?

    I'm throwing in the towel. Go pat yourselves on the back.I find it to my disadvantage to debate with unseen opponents ( a plethora).
    Right, it's very tough to defend the Palestinian culture of mass murder and genocide of the Israelis, especially when those participating in the debate have access to information that is uncensored by Arab dictatorships.

  13. #28
    Ezra
    Guest
    Originally posted by Thair
    Aaishah was 16ish, the view most Islamic sholars hold, when she married Mohammad. She was engaged prior for three years.
    Oooppss.. No lies please!

    Go read your Islamic books! She was 9 yrs old. If you can read arabic, then read "Sirat El-Naby", "Nesaa Al-Nabi", "Al-Sira Al-Nabaweyya"...... And all of them are authenticated Islamic VERY respected references.

    Would like me to point the exact pages also? I'd be so happy to do that!


    (Sorry for interrupting guys!)
    Last edited by Ezra; 04-04-2002 at 04:45 PM.

  14. #29
    Senior Member NewsGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    4,821

    Thumbs up

    Whoa...

    Pretty darn impressive, Ezra. Encyclopedic knowledge of the Koran.

  15. #30
    Ezra
    Guest
    Thanks NewsGuy..

    For Thair,

    I thought you would like page numbers for the fact that Eisha was 9 years old when Mohammed married her (i.e. had real sex ).. Note that he was already engaged to her 3 years before that (i.e. engagement happened when Eisha was 6 years old )..

    References (names are in Arabic):

    Al-Seyar wa El-Maghazi by Ibn Issac, page 255
    Al-Sirah Al-Nabaweyyah by Ibn Hesham, part 4, page 66
    Al-Rod Al-Anf by Al-Sehili, part 4, page 9
    Al-Bokhari, part 5 page 71 and part 7 pages 6,7,28
    Saheeh Muslim, part 3, pages 578 and 579
    Gawame' Al-Sirah, Ibn Hazm, page 27
    Tareekh Al-Tabary, part 2 page 212
    Asd Al-Ghaba, by Ibn Atheer, part 7, page 189
    Al-Esteaab by Al-Qortoby Al-Malki, part 4, page 346
    Al-Esabah by Ibn Hagar, part 4, page 348
    Hayat Mohammad by Dr. Heikal, page 202
    Nesaa Al-Nabi, by Bent Al-Shatee (Aisha Abd El-Rahman), pages 59, 60, 71, 74,77

    By the way all these books are original authenticated old Islamic references (except the last two that are relatively contemporary) that are the bases of the Islamic Feqh and Elm El-Sirah..

    Thair, these are the only references that I have in my library. I'm sure there are many others but I guess these are enough!

    Again, I'm very sorry for interruption..
    Last edited by Ezra; 04-04-2002 at 10:54 PM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. If it Smells like Arafat...
    By NewsGuy in forum Israeli-Arab Conflict
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-06-2002, 01:17 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-02-2002, 10:09 AM
  3. Arafat Under Pressure to Reform
    By JustPat in forum In The News
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-16-2002, 07:02 PM
  4. US gets serious about Arafat
    By NewsGuy in forum In The News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-05-2002, 03:03 PM
  5. Palestinian Chaos Factor
    By NewsGuy in forum Peace Think Tank
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 01-28-2002, 12:23 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •