Self-hating Jews and Unification

[Israelite-Tribe]

Self-hating Jews and Unification WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT?

I'm getting tired of Jews that hate their own race or support the ennemy wtf is this? When is the Jewish world going to unite? Does anyone for a moment think what I think? I've probably said it 5 times in this forum... I wish all Jews from around the world or at least 90% immigrate to Israel... rich or poor ... the other 10% for political reasons could stay in the diaspora... Then... Unite right and left... abolish it ... make only center... (lol impossible) non religious and religious Jews must be united... Ashkenazis and Sepharadim must be united... You know why I want this? Because after seeing that 80.1% of Israel is Jewish and predictions that in 10 years it will no longer be a Jewish state... sends a chill down my spine... I can see the second holocaust coming when we will be all seperated again Please someone help me see the light lol I'm pessimistic... but I hope my dream comes true... Cya

[Israelite-Tribe]

hmm no one replied yet... damn it I want to build a site about Israel and the Jews and our suffering and in same time dissing the world lol.. im pissed off someone help me please... I don't love violence and I know that's not how I should be ... but in same time I'm a self LOVING Jew and the world hates us and I hate them and I'm an isolated Jew by the way.... Alone in my neighborhood... alone in a country where not many Jews live compared to other places (Canada) and alone at school... known as THE JEW... although I didn't face anti semitism acts yet in 4 years at skool there's still some dumb things that are said... anyways I can't wait to live my life in Israel ... 1 more year!!! and I'll be in the IDF I love you all for being Jews lol .. That's it ... I don't know how to xpress what I feel...

[victot]

yes, the fact that jews more than other groups are self-hating is something which bothers me to no end as well. At my university, there are about 4-5 leftest anti-israel jews who are prominent in student politics and stuff, it irritates me so much. as if it wasn't bad enough that at least tens of millions of muslims around the world, as well as many others, spend so much time advocating for the destruction of israel and the death of jews, that we have to have many of our own siding with them. the funny thing, they often have self-righteous reasons for doing it... "look at me, im so noble i'm even going against my own people to side with their genocidal enemies who own and represent half the world!" sigh.

it's good that you love jews, i do to. i don't even get along with them all that well, but i love them. if i am goin to spend money, vote, do anything... if i can, i try to do whatever actions i can do to benefit jews. a strong jewish people means more to me than just about anything. heh, it's funny, in terms of minorities, jews are often disliked and seen as "controlling the world" because what jews there are, often tend to have prominent positions... i think it would be MUCH better to be in the position of other minorities, such as blacks, where even though they tend to have less power individually, there is so many of them, that who really cares?

so you're going to israel? you are moving there? you are gonna do the whole three year army stint? (that's what israelis do, right?) that's awesome man. be safe, protect the people, and represent! how is your hebrew? i was thinking of doing the mahal2000 thing, where you go for 14.5 months... problem is, my hebrew is none too good. i'm gonna try to go to an ulpan during this summer. maybe it can refresh my memory for the hebrew i took at elementary school like, 10 years ago, heh. we shall see what happens with me.

also, it is funny... i was doing a project about the 1967 and 1973 wars, and their aftermath on israel.. and i looked up old jewish magazines from britain dealing with israel... it is funny, throughout the years worth of flipping through the magazines that i did, all they ever called for was aliya aliya aliya... i was wondering, why don't they call on jews in israel to you know... make a lot of babies!! that's what you and they gotta do man, that what our people needs... when you go to israel, find a nice jewish girl, and have as many as you can with her. 10, 11, 12... heh, that's what would help us the most. rasie them strong, proud, hard-working, zionist, jewish... that's really what we need right now.

anyways man, peace, and always have a love for the people.

[Revkha]

Israelite-Tribe,

Have you thought about going to Israel for your last year in school. Self-hating Jews will always be around. Maturity and parenthood have a way of bringing some of these Jews to their senses. Others will remain lost to the Tribe. I say good riddance to those. Although our numbers are small, we don't need them.

Minorities in schools are always easy prey. There are probably students there who would re-act to you differently if not for peer pressure. If you were the only African-American or Korean or Russian or Nigerian or Hispanic or Muslim, they would probably treat you the same way. Often it is not what you are, it is that you are the only one of that kind.

[Alfred]

The reason there will never be a worldwide uniting of the Jews is because religion is more powerful than blood.

The Left is a religion that is just as fanatical as Islam, and the Left will push and fight for their religion even if it means the destruction of Israel. For the religion of the Left is worldwide, international socialism...which includes the tearing down of borders and governments. That also means Israel.

[D.Abraham]

Originally posted by Alfred
The reason there will never be a worldwide uniting of the Jews is because religion is more powerful than blood.

The Left is a religion that is just as fanatical as Islam, and the Left will push and fight for their religion even if it means the destruction of Israel. For the religion of the Left is worldwide, international socialism...which includes the tearing down of borders and governments. That also means Israel.

Alfred, are you speaking of Zionism?

I quote:

"Anti-Zionism Among Jews

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jews who criticize or oppose Zionism are usually Orthodox and maintain that Israel can only be regained miraculously. They view the present state as a blasphemous human attempt to usurp G_d's role, and they work to dismantle Israel. However, unlike many gentile anti_Zionists, they firmly believe in the Jewish right to Israel, but only at that future time of redemption. The best_known of the religious anti_Zionists are the Neturei Karta.

Two common religious grounds are typically given for anti_Zionism. One is that today's Zionism is a secular Zionism, packed with non_Jewish influences, and lacking key features like Moshiach and the rebuilt Temple. Adherents to this position are more on the non_Zionist rather than anti_Zionist side. The other reason is that the Talmud (Meseches Kesuvos, 111a), as part of a discussion of certain Torah verses mentioning oaths, states that when Israel went into the second exile, there were three vows between Heaven and Earth:

1. Israel would not "go up like a wall" [conquer Eretz Yisrael by massive force].

2. G_-d made Israel swear that they would not rebel against the nations of the world [would obey the governments in the exile].

3. G-_d made the non_Jews swear not to oppress Israel "too much" [translation of phrase yoter midai].

Groups accepting these positions are more on the anti_Zionist side.

The religious counter_reply to the above is that secular Zionism is a preliminary stage of religious Zionism, and that the vows no longer apply since the gentiles violated their part (by such actions as the Roman persecutions, the Spanish Inquisition and the Nazi Holocaust). The Balfour Declaration of 1917 and the United Nations partition vote of 1947 are also regarded as having given permission to the Jews to reestablish the state by the non_Jewish rulers of the area. Once this permission was granted it could not be revoked. It should also be noted that the oaths cited above are only mentioned as a side point in one place in a discussion in the Gemara, and as the viewpoint of an individual. Many people feel that they do not apply in any case.

Some Religious Zionist Jews see the formation of the secular state as accelerating the process of redemption, with themselves playing a major role in doing G-_d's will by serving the state, whose creation is often seen as miraculous.

So_called "non_Zionist" Jews are pleased that Israel exists from a practical standpoint-as a haven for oppressed Jews and as a land imbued with holiness well_suited for Torah study. But they don't generally assign religious significance to the formation of the modern state, and often decry aspects of its secular culture."

Israelite-tribe -I like you quote.... I'm with you on your plight about Israel and our people coming together.

“Zionism and pessimism are not compatible.” — Golda Meir

[Am Yisrael]

Originally posted by victot
also, it is funny... i was doing a project about the 1967 and 1973 wars, and their aftermath on israel.. and i looked up old jewish magazines from britain dealing with israel... it is funny, throughout the years worth of flipping through the magazines that i did, all they ever called for was aliya aliya aliya... i was wondering, why don't they call on jews in israel to you know... make a lot of babies!! that's what you and they gotta do man, that what our people needs... when you go to israel, find a nice jewish girl, and have as many as you can with her. 10, 11, 12... heh, that's what would help us the most. rasie them strong, proud, hard-working, zionist, jewish... that's really what we need right now.

HEHE did you know that in Britain around 50/40 or something years ago condom factories used to deliberately damage 1 in 10 condoms by using a needle . This made the birth rate increase dramtically which helped bring the population up from the war.

Surprisingly, at the moment aliyah is sort of going strong. I guess the main reasons being is because the Intifada is giving rise to anti-semitism in some areas, and Jews are becoming more aware of Israel. Israel needs to put effort in encoureging Jews from Western countries to make aliyah from now on.

[Israelite-Tribe]

Originally posted by D.Abraham
Alfred, are you speaking of Zionism?

I quote:

"Anti-Zionism Among Jews

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jews who criticize or oppose Zionism are usually Orthodox and maintain that Israel can only be regained miraculously. They view the present state as a blasphemous human attempt to usurp G_d's role, and they work to dismantle Israel. However, unlike many gentile anti_Zionists, they firmly believe in the Jewish right to Israel, but only at that future time of redemption. The best_known of the religious anti_Zionists are the Neturei Karta.

Two common religious grounds are typically given for anti_Zionism. One is that today's Zionism is a secular Zionism, packed with non_Jewish influences, and lacking key features like Moshiach and the rebuilt Temple. Adherents to this position are more on the non_Zionist rather than anti_Zionist side. The other reason is that the Talmud (Meseches Kesuvos, 111a), as part of a discussion of certain Torah verses mentioning oaths, states that when Israel went into the second exile, there were three vows between Heaven and Earth:

1. Israel would not "go up like a wall" [conquer Eretz Yisrael by massive force].

2. G_-d made Israel swear that they would not rebel against the nations of the world [would obey the governments in the exile].

3. G-_d made the non_Jews swear not to oppress Israel "too much" [translation of phrase yoter midai].

Groups accepting these positions are more on the anti_Zionist side.

The religious counter_reply to the above is that secular Zionism is a preliminary stage of religious Zionism, and that the vows no longer apply since the gentiles violated their part (by such actions as the Roman persecutions, the Spanish Inquisition and the Nazi Holocaust). The Balfour Declaration of 1917 and the United Nations partition vote of 1947 are also regarded as having given permission to the Jews to reestablish the state by the non_Jewish rulers of the area. Once this permission was granted it could not be revoked. It should also be noted that the oaths cited above are only mentioned as a side point in one place in a discussion in the Gemara, and as the viewpoint of an individual. Many people feel that they do not apply in any case.

Some Religious Zionist Jews see the formation of the secular state as accelerating the process of redemption, with themselves playing a major role in doing G-_d's will by serving the state, whose creation is often seen as miraculous.

So_called "non_Zionist" Jews are pleased that Israel exists from a practical standpoint-as a haven for oppressed Jews and as a land imbued with holiness well_suited for Torah study. But they don't generally assign religious significance to the formation of the modern state, and often decry aspects of its secular culture."

Israelite-tribe -I like you quote.... I'm with you on your plight about Israel and our people coming together.

“Zionism and pessimism are not compatible.” — Golda Meir

heh thx ya im sometimes pessimistic...

[humus_sapiens]

Why is This Passover Different? by Steven Plaut

In the Passover Seder there is a song that is sung entitled "V’hee she-amda" and which includes a verse that says, "Not once but repeatedly they arose to annihilate us, but we were rescued by God."

Why is this year’s Passover different from all other Passovers?

This year’s Passover is different in one important matter. Throughout Jewish history the rising up of anti-Semites seeking the annihilation of the Jews was matter-of-fact, mundane, expected, routine. There was never a time in which anti-Semitic savages were not seeking the destruction of the Jews.

What is different at the start of the 21st century is that now the anti-Semites arising up and seeking to destroy Jews are allied with and supported by the Jewish Left. The Jewish Left has formed an axis of evil, an entente, with anti-Semitism. Jewish Leftists are marching for a victory for Palestine, as well as a victory for Saddam and Arab fascism in general. They support every single measure and proposal designed to weaken Israel and make it vulnerable and destructible. The more radical among the Jewish Leftists cheer on the terrorists, and applauded the Passover massacre of a year ago. The Jewish Left is serving as fig leaf for anti-Semitism, and leftist apologists and court Jews are serving those seeking to annihilate Jews.

The Israeli Tenured Left is utilizing its pampered and protected position to support the enemy in time of war and encourage anti-Israel and anti-Semite barbarians all over the globe, supplying them with aid and comfort and a usable defense against charges that they are anti-Semites. The Tikkun Left is willing to promote peace with terrorists to the last Israeli. The Jews for a Second Holocaust are roaming the world urging that Israel be boycotted and dismembered, while arming and strengthening the Palestinian fascists.

The "moderate" Labor party-Meretz Left is still obsessed with historic revisionism, of lying about its own role in the Oslo massacres and in creating the threat to Israel’s very existence. The very same people who rescued Arafat from oblivion, who invited the terrorocracy of Tunis to swap its press conferences there for the chance to place suicide bombers on Israeli school buses, the people who imported thousands of terrorists into Israeli territory, who armed and bankrolled them, these are the very same people now whining that Israelis are still being killed because of the settlements. There is no limit to their gall. Their policies have produced 1,300 murders and they insist the refusal to continue to apply their failed and insane policies is what has produced the bloodshed, that the only salvation is more Oslo national suicide.

This year, we really should add a clause to the Passover seder, not only celebrating the rescue of Israel from the anti-Semites of history, but pleading that Israel now be rescued from the treasonous Jewish collaborators, allied with Arab fascism, assisting the anti-Semites, the terrorists, the savages, and the Nazis.

[paulo]

How is possible for a member of the Jewish left to be accused of anti-semitism? Anti-semitism is the most mis-used term in the English language. In fact what you really mean is that the Jewish left is not pro-Zionist, and anyone who thinks that 'Israel might have to share' cannot contribute to modern conception of Irsael.

Jews have lived in harmony and peace in Palestine for centuries and was only when Zionist started to claim Israel as their 'rightful' land, the possession of the 'Jewish population' to exclusion of Moslem and Christian population did problems arise.

The term semite reffers to the desert people and includes the arab world, therefore I would request that you use the term anti-semitism with more care, as the accusation can has be leveled at Sharon that he is anti-semetic.

It is morally wrong to call the Jewish Left 'anti-semitic' as they
probably one of the only groups in Israel who understand or have any conception of viable solution to the trouble.


Also is it incorrect to say that the political left, or the Jewsih left applaudes terrorism. Needles to say the left deals in facts and not rhetoric, hence, understanding 'why' sucide bombers get on children school buses and blow themselves up is more important that making knee jerk reaction and firing some rockets into a Palestine area.

Sucide bombers do not do what they do for the 'fun' of it.
Perhaps this passover you should say a pray peace and not violence you anti-semite Steven Plaut.

[Mercury]

Originally posted by paulo

Jews have lived in harmony and peace in Palestine for centuries and was only when Zionist started to claim Israel as their 'rightful' land, the possession of the 'Jewish population' to exclusion of Moslem and Christian population did problems arise.

May I ask where did you read that? And also whose 'rightful' land it is?

[paulo]

Certainly - It was quoted from a book called "Bitter Havest" written bt Sami Hadawi written 1990. Sami Hadawi has also written a book about the history of Palestine. I can be pretty sure on the validity of the statement as the book is recommended reading on almost every course in International Politics throughout the world.

Before the 20th century most Jews in Palestine belonged to the old Yishuv, or community that had settled more for religious reasons than political. There was little if any conflict between them and the Arab population. Tensions began after the First Zionist settlers arrived in the 1880's when they purchased land from absentee Arab owners leading to the dissposseion of the Arab land according the Ottoman land of Code passed in 1858.

[Mediocrates]

I googled that author. Interesting in his opinion Zionists are all oppressive violent monsters. In his opinion Israel shouldn't really exist at all.

Do you have any more interesting sources?

Do you have an inkling about his perspective from the title?

[paulo]

I did have an inkling as the nature of the authors belief's, however, his points are all entirely referenced and backed up by sound historical work. The fact is, Isreal now does exsist through the work of the Zionist movement, but I do feel that Israel future lies in the a constructive approach to the Palestinians. Seeing that Jewish people and Arabs once did live together in relative harmony it could be of some use to Israel to find out how this could be achieved again. Check out opinions in the Arab-Israel Conflict thread. Although I am a new member and have just been acused of being a hate speaker I find this unholy unjustified. Especially when there are members of the IDF claiming they should have the right to shoot people on the spot. I do believe in the state of Israel as vivable country, and I can entirely simpathise that there are a number of hostile enemies on all side - but what is needed is fresh perpective on how to co-exsist peacefuly in the modern world. It's not 1948 now, how long will it be before terrorist groups get there hands on some very scary technology? Then idea of the terrorist, the very conception of a sucide bomber with say a nuc. bomb could spell the end of Israel before it has chance to become the beacon of democracy in the Middle East, which I very much feel it has the potential to become.

[elke]

The term semite reffers to the desert people and includes the arab world, therefore I would request that you use the term anti-semitism with more care, as the accusation can has be leveled at Sharon that he is anti-semetic.

Wrong. The term "semite" refers to peoples who spoke semitic languages. The term "antisemite" was coined specifically to express racism against Jews. There are plenty of misnomers in all languages, which remain in use because everyone (or almost everyone) understands what the word actually means. Therefore, the above statement is nonsensical, and the response to your request should be a counter-request that you acquire a decent dictionary and check your facts, before posting nonsense.