Home | The problem remains how to end the israeli-arab conflict.
Sharon thought there could be a military solution. After all, Israel is simply much stronger militarily than the PA. But so far this has not worked, and Sharon is now trying a cease-fire approach rather than pulverizing the PA.
World pressure is preventing Israel from using its force.
Is there any military solution at all to the conflict, or does there need to be a political one?
Israel must stand firm and cannot change its posture in any way. The military solution is inevitable and have recently admitted to preparing for an all out war. But most importantly the military is attempting to use its force to prevent a war.
The truth be told there is no solution for the Middle-east not unless one is willing to consider the removal of one party or the other from Israel. While it is possible for Jews, Muslims and Christians to live side by side, and most do want peace, there are fanatics that will never allow it.
As long as countries such as Iran, Syria, Libya and other Arab nations are willing to pay for the murder of Jews in Israel the Palestinians have no reason to negotiate when they believe they can have it all.
Silence of the Lambs
Unbelievable.
Let consider the facts:
1. Israel is occupying a civilian population. There is no way around that truth.
2. Civilians rebel when under oppression. The human beings on the West Bank of the Jordan River, and the Gaza Strip, have established themselves as belonging to the Palestinian nation.
3. Israel not only occupies all the land around Palestinian cities (effectively creating urban concentration camps), but ALSO threatens the mostly civilian population with RETALIATION every time one of theirs escapes the ghetto to sow destruction in the enemy's house.
4. Retaliation, a favorite and brutal tactic that Israel and the Israeli people cling to, is totally ineffective. The Palestinians have already shifted into "hopeless gear". Hopeless people do hopeless acts.
5. Israelis are once again responsible for shooting themselves in the foot (a famous characteristic). They and their media have demonized their neighbor's leaders (not to mention assassinating some of them), and now they cry for a hand to hold.
6. Arafat, while certainly ugly, is not a terrorist, as many paranoic fellow Semites like parrot. He is simply the leader of the Palestinians, and will do anything to help HIS people. It will serve you no purpose to lament on your "lost peace-partner", like sheep. Why don'y you be real men and women and talk to your enemies with dignity, you might recieve some in return.
7. The alternative is plastic explosive, nails, and more wailing men and women (on all sides)...
The usage of the word concentration camp implies a place where people are brought together to be exterminated. The Arabs continuously use 'words' from the Holocaust to bring up images from Nazi Germany, however at the same time they either deny or approve of the slaughter of 7,000,000 innocent Jews.
Fact: In 1967 the Arab nations once again rattled their sabers & were once again defeated. This time however, the Jews reoccupied their native homeland. The Palestinians were let down by their Arab bretheren once again, and were left to the Israeli's to deal with.
In 2000 Prime Minister Barak offered a peace plan for the Palestinians, more sweeping than anyone expected, the Palestinians replied with violence and terrorism.
The fact is that there is no such thing as a Palestinian, even when Israel was divided by the British in 1948, the 'occupied territories' were called Trans Jordan.
Interesting:
And didn't the Knesset pass legislation making these "agreements" a near-impossibility to approve. Didn't Sharon wiggle his fat butt on the Haram Al-Sharif (or Temple Mount) to provoke the Palestinians, to add insult to the injury caused by their daily debasement and humiliation.
Wake up! Have you ever drove through the West Bank? I have, many times. Even in the "glory days" of the Oslo talks, Palestinians were treated to IDF daily "pleasantries", such as slaps on the face, kicking women at checkpoints, insulting them with racist remarks. Yeah, they sure felt good, but these Palestinian people went to their homes, with their children seeing the shame on their parents' faces. I tell you, it is a shameful, heart-tearing situation.
7 million Jews died, but we weren't involved. The Germans were, as well as the masses of Polish and Russian peasants who for centuries nurtured a horrific hate for your people. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ARABS.
Wake up!
ok, first of all, the Temple Mount is a natural place for ANY Israeli, including Sharon or anyone else to go as they please. it is, after all, Israeli land.Originally posted by Eli the Arab
Interesting:
And didn't the Knesset pass legislation making these "agreements" a near-impossibility to approve. Didn't Sharon wiggle his fat butt on the Haram Al-Sharif (or Temple Mount) to provoke the Palestinians, to add insult to the injury caused by their daily debasement and humiliation.
Wake up! Have you ever drove through the West Bank? I have, many times. Even in the "glory days" of the Oslo talks, Palestinians were treated to IDF daily "pleasantries", such as slaps on the face, kicking women at checkpoints, insulting them with racist remarks. Yeah, they sure felt good, but these Palestinian people went to their homes, with their children seeing the shame on their parents' faces. I tell you, it is a shameful, heart-tearing situation.
7 million Jews died, but we weren't involved. The Germans were, as well as the masses of Polish and Russian peasants who for centuries nurtured a horrific hate for your people. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ARABS.
Wake up!
The fact that Israel allows the Waqf (Muslim religious authority) to oversee that land is a generous, if stupid, move on the part of Israel, which tries to bend over backwards to appease their muslim enemies.
Secondly, even during the days of Oslo, Arabd continued to murder innocent Israeli civilians and Islamic terrorism was always there, so that Israel was right to have its military question suspicios Arabs, who were entering Israel.
Thirdly, I think YOU need to wake up and realize that the present situation has EVERYTHING to do with the Arabs and Islam in general.
The fact is that all over the world, muslims attempt to murder and ethnically cleanse their neighbors. Example, your own puppet country of Lebanon where the muslims (also headed partially by Arabfat) slaughtered their Christian neighbors by the thousands. Another exmaple is muslim terrorism in the United States. Another exmaple is muslim terror in Chechnya. Another example is the current muslim terrorism in the Philipines. Another example is extremist muslims even slaughtering thousands of their own brothers in Algeria when they have nothing better to do. Muslim terror in Germany and France, sponsored by the Islamic republic of Iran. The list goes on and on.
The problem is not Israel. You need to wake up to the fact muslims murder all of their neighbors. This has happenned historically and it is still going on till today in Israle and all over the world.
Now I'm not saying that all muslims are murderes. They are not, to be sure, but there are enough that represent Islam to make is clear that this is an Islamic problem, not an Israeli one.
I'm just responding to these points for time constraints.Originally posted by Eli the Arab
Unbelievable.
Let consider the facts:
1. Israel is occupying a civilian population. There is no way around that truth.
2. Civilians rebel when under oppression. The human beings on the West Bank of the Jordan River, and the Gaza Strip, have established themselves as belonging to the Palestinian nation.
7. The alternative is plastic explosive, nails, and more wailing men and women (on all sides)...
1 and 2: The arabs are not some innocent civilian population. They send their own children to do their dirty work and to murder Israeli civilians. It is the Israeli civilians who are under attack from arab terrorists every day.
israel has not retaliated intentionally against civilians, but unfortunately only against mostly empty PA government offices.
If Israel was to relaliate against civilians as is how Arab countries "take care" of insurrections, then maybe there would be fewer arab suicide bombers.
7. The alternative is for Israel to level the sources of palestinian fire and deal with it as a full-blown war. Israel must forcefully move the arab enemy population into territories where a viable physical separation can take place. For exmaple, further into the Gaza strip and into neighboring arab countries like Egypt and jordan (which is the Palestinian state in any event).
Then there can be a unilateral separation and goodbye to the Palestinians and their problems.
let them rule themselves in gaza and egypt and jordan and even in lebanon. That's the alternative to the present day arab terror.
That's ridiculous.Originally posted by Eli the Arab
6. Arafat, while certainly ugly, is not a terrorist, as many paranoic fellow Semites like parrot. He is simply the leader of the Palestinians, and will do anything to help HIS people. It will serve you no purpose to lament on your "lost peace-partner", like sheep. Why don'y you be real men and women and talk to your enemies with dignity, you might recieve some in return.
Arafat is a terrorist and a direct murderer of Israeli women and children.
For years, Israel's left-leaning governments spoke to him with completely undeserved dignity and still no results.
Arafat needs to be treated like the murderer that he is, and it is only Arab oil and political pressure that stops Israel from dealing with him appropriately.
The arabs just won't face reality, it seems.
Terrorism is terrorism. period. stop whining about the arabs' "hurt feelings" that they are being treated as suspects by the Israeli army. A great deal of them are involved in acts of violence against innocent Israelis and are being treated appropriately as terrorists which they are.
Sure there can be a military solution, but Israel is clearly not willing to bear the price it would have to pay if a military solution was put into effect.
The fact is that the Palestinians are having a very grass-roots uprising, which means that to stop it, not only would the entire PA official infrastructure need to be eliminated, but also, there would need to be severe strikes against arab civilians.
This the world will not stand for.
Israel knows that it is a nuclear superpower that can withstand almost any military onslaught, but it cannot deal with the consequences of striking thousands of civilians.
There would be war reparations and sanctions and political and economic isolation for the next several years.
So, while possible, I do not believe that Israel will try a military solution, even though, they might topple Arafat and the PA sooner or later.
"All we are saying is give peace a chance." - John Lennon
The answer to that question depends on what you figure a solution is; is the solution to kill the enemy? Or to ensure the safety of your own folks?
I don't think there is a military solution because I believe the solution is peace. Further, I believe that peace needs to include a Palestinian state, created with some reasonable chance to survive, economically...
Sure, the solution is peace, but this seems to be something that the current PA does not want, so it looks to many that eliminating the PA and its infrastructure is the only way to get peace.Originally posted by Jean le Ne
The answer to that question depends on what you figure a solution is; is the solution to kill the enemy? Or to ensure the safety of your own folks?
I don't think there is a military solution because I believe the solution is peace. Further, I believe that peace needs to include a Palestinian state, created with some reasonable chance to survive, economically...
For exmaple, Barak offered Araft an extremely (maybe overly)generous offer of peace, territory and an economic infrastructure, and even a capital in Jerusalem, but Arafat turned it down and began terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians. As such, the Arabs are the ones who turned to a military solution already.
This is what makes many people think that a total elimination of the PA is the only way to achieve peace eventually.
NEGEV- Thank you for your reply. I don't want to be flippant or smart *** with my comments; but do the math... How can the elimination of the PA do anything other than clear a track for HAMAS, ISLAMIC JIHAD etc? I understand the frustration the Israelis must feel with Arafat, but if we are going to be brutally honest, Israel has to take some responsibility, not only for their part in the conflict, historically, but for their placement, in some ways, of the PA. Israel has allowed the PA to basically shoulder the dirty work of trying to control a dispossessed and disorganized population. Obviously the Palestinians are way less impressed with job Israel is doing of over seeing their best interests, then some in Israel feel they are. To hear some Israeli talk about the thing, you'd think the Palestinians ought to be sending thank-you notes. The basic of this mess will not change, with or without Arafat. That is just wishful thinking. The basics are Jerusalem, settlements, refugees, and all of those things need to be attended to. There is going to be a state of Palestine, and with all of the risk involved, Israel has to accept that. If, after that state is created, the nutcases on the Islamic side keep insisting that Israel has to go, then I truly believe the all important opinion of other democracies may shift, for Israel and against the militants...
The complete elimination of the pa is truly correct. It is obvious there was no way to avoid jihad, hamas, or whatever they want to call their fruitless ignorant actions. Their true intentions I'm sure have by now been shown against them, only a terrorist would agree with them. Their lawlessness will work against them. If there are those so opposed against the occupation in Israel then they should leave Israel. Israel should never tolerate hateful violent people, Israel is to be a city of peace FOREVER.
And yet the world so far does nothing against them and tries to prevent Israel from protecting itself against those terrorists.Originally posted by watcher
Their true intentions I'm sure have by now been shown against them, only a terrorist would agree with them. Their lawlessness will work against them.
How do you explain that?
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