Lets Give Peace or Land a Try

[SteveMetch]

Proposal

Step 1: Divide the West Bank and Gaza into approx. 1,000 logical land tracts.

Step 2: Announce to the world that every Israel citizen killed from this point forward will result in the annexation of 1 land tract in the order outlined by a published map.

Step 3: After a terrorist attack has killed X number of citizens the appropriate set of land tracts will be annexed and all Non-Israel citizens will be forcibly removed from the land tract.

Step 4: Any structures deemed unnecessary or that represent a security risk will be removed.


The logical order of land tracts:

Land tracts around the green line that improve security

Land tracts which help connect settlements to what is currently Israel

Land tracts that contain no Arab populations (settlements, open land etc)

Land tracts that contain shanty town Arab populations

Land tracts that do not include infrastructure (power plants etc)

Land tracts that does include infrastructure

Land tracts that contain more permanent Arab populations

All remaining land

Currently there is no established non-ambiguous price tag on violence; as such Israel lives have no value to the Arabs. Placing a definite value on each murder will bring some measure of meaning to the death of so many people as well as establish an ultimate end to the death toll.

Land for Peace has failed. Its time to give Peace or Land a try.


The two possible long term out comes to this are

Option 1:

Arabs stop killing Jews, 100 to 200 years from now when both populations have grown up in an environment of mutal respect and non-violence they will be able to form a Liberal Democracy as one nation.

Option 2:

Arabs continue to kill Jews and are removed from all of Gaza and the West Bank and find somewhere in the remaining 99.5% of the Middle East to live.

[yoyo]

Or maybe Sharon need to clarify the term "contiguous territory in the West Bank", because according to my definition, 20 square meter in one block is consider "contiguous".

[peace4ev4]

I cant believe people are talking about stealing and robbing land its not yours to give its alll Gods Land just because you put money on it doesnt mean you own it because God can still take it away just my philosophy of how land should be thought about. i cant believe people are putting they're lives at stake just for some Land. this generation is not peaceful at all its still the leaders fault because no ones capable of believing there is still chance for peace or they dont want peace we shouldnt give up. there is a great chance of peace its just there are people with little faith like politicians.

[JesusRules]

Proposal

Step 1: Divide the West Bank and Gaza into approx. 1,000 logical land tracts.

Step 2: Announce to the world that every Israel citizen killed from this point forward will result in the annexation of 1 land tract in the order outlined by a published map.

Step 3: After a terrorist attack has killed X number of citizens the appropriate set of land tracts will be annexed and all Non-Israel citizens will be forcibly removed from the land tract.

Step 4: Any structures deemed unnecessary or that represent a security risk will be removed.


The logical order of land tracts:

Land tracts around the green line that improve security

Land tracts which help connect settlements to what is currently Israel

Land tracts that contain no Arab populations (settlements, open land etc)

Land tracts that contain shanty town Arab populations

Land tracts that do not include infrastructure (power plants etc)

Land tracts that does include infrastructure

Land tracts that contain more permanent Arab populations

All remaining land

Currently there is no established non-ambiguous price tag on violence; as such Israel lives have no value to the Arabs. Placing a definite value on each murder will bring some measure of meaning to the death of so many people as well as establish an ultimate end to the death toll.

Land for Peace has failed. Its time to give Peace or Land a try.


The two possible long term out comes to this are

Option 1:

Arabs stop killing Jews, 100 to 200 years from now when both populations have grown up in an environment of mutal respect and non-violence they will be able to form a Liberal Democracy as one nation.

Option 2:

Arabs continue to kill Jews and are removed from all of Gaza and the West Bank and find somewhere in the remaining 99.5% of the Middle East to live.

How about go back to the original borders that God gave to Abram in Genesis for His people and then remove everyone except the Jewish people from those borders? This of course would require the whole world to help in the removal because Israel has been reduced to a small accorn sized land since the time of the covenent God gave to Abram. There would be a lot of people to re-locate wouldn't there?

[SteveMetch]

How about go back to the original borders that God gave to Abram in Genesis for His people and then remove everyone except the Jewish people from those borders? This of course would require the whole world to help in the removal because Israel has been reduced to a small accorn sized land since the time of the covenent God gave to Abram. There would be a lot of people to re-locate wouldn't there?

Israel is fully capable on its own of doing exactly what I suggested it only lacks the will.

Muslim’s believe Abraham was a Muslim so it’s Muslim land (river to the sea) according to them, for this and many other reasons. When they speak of "occupation" the mean everything. It’s only the idiots on the left that think they mean sqkm here or there.

Not all problems have good solutions. Many times you must choose between bad and worse.

[Jorge]

From SteveMetch #5:

Not all problems have good solutions. Many times you must choose between bad and worse.
__________________

I cannot but agree to this pearl of wisdom.

It applies however to those situations where, after exhausting all the good or less good solutions you have no alternative than to choose between bad and worse.

What about trying the good ones first instead of starting from the worse solutions? I must confess that your "solution" of the 1000 plots is one of the worst I've heard so far.

[Mediocrates]

How about go back to the original borders that God gave to Abram in Genesis for His people and then remove everyone except the Jewish people from those borders? This of course would require the whole world to help in the removal because Israel has been reduced to a small accorn sized land since the time of the covenent God gave to Abram. There would be a lot of people to re-locate wouldn't there?

There's no reason for Israel to give up Eilat (Moab)

[SteveMetch]

From SteveMetch #5:

Not all problems have good solutions. Many times you must choose between bad and worse.
__________________

I cannot but agree to this pearl of wisdom.

It applies however to those situations where, after exhausting all the good or less good solutions you have no alternative than to choose between bad and worse.

What about trying the good ones first instead of starting from the worse solutions? I must confess that your "solution" of the 1000 plots is one of the worst I've heard so far.

So what is your solution?

One definition of insanity is to do something the same way over and over again and expect a different result.

How’s that whole “land for peace” idea working out for you guys?

Made any new friends by giving back land? Or have you created more deadlier enemies?

Maybe doing the opposite will have the opposite result you think? Take land win friends. It sure can't be any worse. Even if the attacks increase at least you'll get something of value in return.

As it’s now you give back land and you get more attacks. Sounds like lose lose to me.

[Jorge]

Quotes from SteveMetch #8:

So what is your solution?

I’ve been exploring some ideas for paving the way towards a solution in my later Posts in the Thread ‘’A Just Peace or a Practical Durable Peace’’ below. You are welcomed to discuss those ideas there.

One definition of insanity is to do something the same way over and over again and expect a different result.

Again your aphorisms are full of wisdom. That’s the entreating thing about aphorisms, they are always right per se. One cannot but agree with them. Dissent starts though when they are applied to concrete situations. For instance, the notion that repression and collective punishment is the best deterrent has been tried by Israel on the Palestinians ‘over and over again’ and each new time we ‘expect a different result’. Following the internal logic of your aphorism that amounts to insanity.
I suppose though that you didn’t intend it in that context, did you”

As it’s now you give back land and you get more attacks. Sounds like lose lose to me.

I don’t recall we ever “giving back land” to the Palestinians (unless you refer to the settlements dismantled in the Gaza Strip?). However I do recall quite a number of situations where we have appropriated land that the Palestinians consider to be theirs. Even a cursory look to the present map of the WB, with settlements legal and illegal included, will illustrate my point.

[Mahati]

As soon as you realize that exchanging land for peace will never work. The Muslims will never be satisfied until the Jews are driven into the sea and completely out of what they consider to be Palastine. You must be prepared to fight and do what you were supposed to do the first time in the Old Testament but didn't and that is remove all those people from the Land.

[Achihud]

I cant believe people are talking about stealing and robbing land its not yours to give its alll Gods Land just because you put money on it doesnt mean you own it because God can still take it away just my philosophy of how land should be thought about.

Maybe Allah is not giving any attention to it. Maybe he can't hear you. Maybe he's taking a nap...

i cant believe people are putting they're lives at stake just for some Land.

In the mean time, let's give Wakefield to those poor poor Palestinians. I'm sure it's some land, to an instant-dhimmi4peace like you...

this generation is not peaceful at all its still the leaders fault because no ones capable of believing there is still chance for peace or they dont want peace we shouldnt give up. there is a great chance of peace its just there are people with little faith like politicians.

What are you smoking, Woodstock is over! You need to sober up and shout it out loud because your god of nothing is still taking a nap.

[peace4ev4]

Maybe Allah is not giving any attention to it. Maybe he can't hear you. Maybe he's taking a nap...
In the mean time, let's give Wakefield to those poor poor Palestinians. I'm sure it's some land, to an instant-dhimmi4peace like you...
What are you smoking, Woodstock is over! You need to sober up and shout it out loud because your god of nothing is still taking a nap.

you should know Allah does neither sleep nor slumber. nor does he tire. he created the heavens and the earth. you should know that your deficiating your own god too because they are both same.well if you wanna be gready and keep him to yourself then i think your being a bit childish. after all there is only one god. he doesnt have human deficiency like us. well you have more deficiencies i suggest since you desist from peace why are you despising me and my religion when i neither despised or said anything against yours its not right to discriminate you have sunk low today my friend because you are giving a bad representation of yourself to me and others.

[Achihud]

you should know Allah does neither sleep nor slumber. nor does he tire. he created the heavens and the earth.

So you are muslim then! I should have checked.

you should know that your deficiating your own god too because they are both same. well if you wanna be gready and keep him to yourself then i think your being a bit childish. after all there is only one god.

That's the thing you see, to you they are the same, to me they ain't.
Just out of curiosity, how many times can you repeat "there is only one god" and "they are both same"?

why are you despising me and my religion when i neither despised or said anything against yours its not right to discriminate you have sunk low today my friend because you are giving a bad representation of yourself to me and others.

I thought I was addressing a candidate dhimmi, not its master.

[JesusRules]

There's no reason for Israel to give up Eilat (Moab)

[peace4ev4]

So you are muslim then! I should have checked. That's the thing you see, to you they are the same, to me they ain't.

Just out of curiosity, how many times can you repeat "there is only one god" and "they are both same"? I thought I was addressing a candidate dhimmi, not its master.

by repeating thus it reasures and knocks out inequaties truth knocks out lies. how can they not be the same. is it because we praise him day and night is it because commands usto be rightoes and uphold the law. is it because he calls too you as the people of the book, or is it his great Awe which you cant stand. know tha he knows all things. do you wanna know why we call him Allah not God.
Allah means the being worth worship. there is no equal to him and he is one and only. Non muslims have gods and godesses. the christians have jesus as god and the hindus have Krishna as god. they worship them as personified gods for their idol worship similarly budhists and parsis have their own idol gods. there are godfathers and godmothers. the criminal underworld has their own mafia gods and drugs gods.
This is the reason thereforew Allah is the greates name of the one God and that is why i always say one God so u know who i am referring to.

It is all about intention if you worship the lord of the creator heavens of the earth, the master of the day of judgement, the supreme, the majestic, the being worth worship, then your on the right track.
but if your calling him father which is a human characteristics the same which you call your priests your Father too your way off the straight path or refer to jesus as god and his mother as one too. well now we are worshipping more than one god which is blasphemy.
we worship no one but the supreme, the All Knowing, the All Merciful. none is born of him and neither is he he born. he is Allah and there is none like unto him.
why is it so easy(enjoyment) to worship him when you associate things with god and dislike it when you are told to just worship him on his own without assocaiting anything with him, even Idols.
and dont say we copied from the bible because the Bible wasn’t translated into Arabic until 40 years after the Qur’an was written! Wouldn’t this prove divine inspiration of the Qur’an? and it has over 9 million muslims who have memorised it by heart. it is obvious that God has created a special book indeed. name one christian who has memorised the whole bible or any book of the same volume which is 613 pages and 114 chapters. plus predicting the future and astronomy and science which has only been discovered in the late 20th century and amazingly could only have been discovered with todays technology. in Addition to that Muhammad(peace be up on him) is known as the worlds greatest leader of whole times by Micheal Heart and it is fact because of his attributes that is why Islam is true and the fastest growing religion. peace be with you.