Lets Give Peace or Land a Try

[Achihud]

While you are probably under the impression of winning a debate here, I’ve had to make a summary of this rumble of your English word puzzle;

Read his biography before you corespond your answers (…) and can tell you (…) lots more (…) finally what will be in Hell for the wrong doers and unbelievers

Yes, what about those wrong doers and unbelievers because that was the latest question you conveniently ignored in #29;

Some Christians unthinkingly say 'Allah is not God.' This is the ultimate blasphemy to Muslims (…)

So any jew or christian who is opposed to the idea that ‘Allah is the same god because muslims say so’-dogma, has committed ultimate blasphemy!!! I guess they can forget about being considered as good people who will receive reward in the end?

Now don’t ignore me again by telling that I have to read biographies first.
I’m here to participate in a debate, not to read anyone else’s book collection!

Have jews/christians who are opposed to the idea that…and I quote you again from #30;

"Allah (…) is the same as your (god?)"

…become wrong doers and unbelievers with the ultimate blasphemy in mind? Yes or No?

[snufkin]

Of course, the word "God" does not actually appear in the original Hebrew ..."

God is not a word in Hebrew. The equivalent word in Hebrew is Elohim which sounds very similar to Allah. So it's very clear that the Muslems are trying to pray to the same Elohim....

[SteveMetch]

I’ve been exploring some ideas for paving the way towards a solution in my later Posts in the Thread ‘’A Just Peace or a Practical Durable Peace’’ below. You are welcomed to discuss those ideas there.

The simple fact is that Muslims are indoctrinated from birth to hate all non-Muslims (specifically Jews). They are also indoctrinated that any land Muslims have previous conquered should never go back to Non-Muslims (especially Jews). Those are the facts.

“A Just Peace or a Practical Durable Peace” will only happen when you are not surrounded by Muslims it’s really that simple. I don’t know what is so hard to understand about this.

Some people are so open minded that their brain falls out.

Again your aphorisms are full of wisdom. That’s the entreating thing about aphorisms, they are always right per se. One cannot but agree with them. Dissent starts though when they are applied to concrete situations. For instance, the notion that repression and collective punishment is the best deterrent has been tried by Israel on the Palestinians ‘over and over again’ and each new time we ‘expect a different result’. Following the internal logic of your aphorism that amounts to insanity.
I suppose though that you didn’t intend it in that context, did you”.

No my logic is a little more historical than fictional.

It worked for Nazi Germany and Imperialist Japan, both of which are among the most peaceful nations on earth with the 2nd and 3rd largest economies in the world no less. You can do worse than be leveled by the United States apparently.

Looks like the only humane thing to do is to utterly destroy your enemies and rebuild them in your image.

This action is collectively known as “War” by the way.

I don’t recall we ever “giving back land” to the Palestinians (unless you refer to the settlements dismantled in the Gaza Strip?). However I do recall quite a number of situations where we have appropriated land that the Palestinians consider to be theirs. Even a cursory look to the present map of the WB, with settlements legal and illegal included, will illustrate my point.

First of all the Muslim’s don’t make the distinction between this land parcel or that land parcel, when they say “occupation” the mean every square inch the Jews occupy including the land under your feet right now.

Second the Jewish homeland includes everything west of the Jordan River. This was the intent of the international community when it broke up trans-Jordan along the Jordan River. The Muslims on the East side of the Jordan the Jews on the West side of the Jordan. The courageous Jews before you held onto what they could after continuous murderous and overwhelming Muslim attacks.

[Jorge]

Quote from SteveMetch's Post #33:

“A Just Peace or a Practical Durable Peace” will only happen when you are not surrounded by Muslims it’s really that simple. I don’t know what is so hard to understand about this.

Well, I for one find it “hard to understand this”. How could this be achieved considering that Israel is the only non-Moslem country in the whole region? Does he propose to convert all Moslems to another faith? Some sort of evangelical crusade?

That procedure wouldn’t be a very clever one because over the ages we Jews suffered far more in the hands of the Christians than of the Moslems. There’s no guarantee really that Christians will not revert in the future to their old habits so it would be like exchanging cinders for a fire.

Or is his solution far more drastic, as may be inferred from another paragraph of his?, quote:

Looks like the only humane thing to do is to utterly destroy your enemies and rebuild them in your image.

That is, not to convert them to the True Faith as a first step, but first to destroy them utterly and then, if there are any left, to rebuild them in “your image”. Which image might be that? That of SteveMetch and the ones that think like him? That again would be unwise because, in that new image they would be more barbaric and bloodthirsty than what most Moslems seem to be nowadays.

By contrast to those grandiose enterprises, the ideas I was proposing, that is, diplomatic negotiations to pave the way to an eventual peace, look far too modest. They don't imply a New World Order or a Final Solution. Just a procedure where contenders would try to smooth their differences in a civilized manner.

[SteveMetch]

Well, I for one find it “hard to understand this”. How could this be achieved considering that Israel is the only non-Moslem country in the whole region? Does he propose to convert all Moslems to another faith? Some sort of evangelical crusade?

That procedure wouldn’t be a very clever one because over the ages we Jews suffered far more in the hands of the Christians than of the Moslems. There’s no guarantee really that Christians will not revert in the future to their old habits so it would be like exchanging cinders for a fire.

Or is his solution far more drastic, as may be inferred from another paragraph of his?, quote:

That is, not to convert them to the True Faith as a first step, but first to destroy them utterly and then, if there are any left, to rebuild them in “your image”. Which image might be that? That of SteveMetch and the ones that think like him? That again would be unwise because, in that new image they would be more barbaric and bloodthirsty than what most Moslems seem to be nowadays.

By contrast to those grandiose enterprises, the ideas I was proposing, that is, diplomatic negotiations to pave the way to an eventual peace, look far too modest. They don't imply a New World Order or a Final Solution. Just a procedure where contenders would try to smooth their differences in a civilized manner.

Germany and Japan are still culturally intact. They now direct the strength of their culture towards peaceful and productive endeavors as opposed to wholesale racist murder, big improvement don’t you think? They are neither Christian nor American and that’s just fine. What they are now are freemen living their life as they wish constrained by the rule of democratically defined law within the context of common set of equally applied human rights. Human rights that are explicitly forbidden in Islamic Law by the way. Important safety tip for your bestest buddies the Muslims.

When I say “our image” I mean the collective image of the modern western world which is characterized by liberty not religion.

It is utterly impossible by definition for a Christian “Christ Like” to attack or murder Jews because they are Jews. There is not one passage or teaching in the Christian bible that could even be construed to justify this. In fact the Christian bible is so pacifistic that it needs to be construed to even justify a minimal amount of self-defense.

We have to go to the Jewish scripture for anything that even approaches active opposition and only then against those that would murder you.

Evil people will use whatever means they can to justify in minds of the ignorant violence against others. This doesn’t always mean the ideology is evil.

Some ideologies though were designed around the murder of non-adherents. Nazism, Japanese Imperialism, Communism and Islam are good examples.

Islam explicitly and continuously justifies violence against non-Muslims as requirement of all faithful Muslims. You know the guys pulling the triggers on those missiles raining ball bearings everywhere in Israel right now while dreaming of launching Nukes at you and us in the future.

Yah, go right ahead and keeping on worrying about those nasty Christians who worshiping a Jew as if he were the son of G-d. Yep you’re right watch out for those guys who actually take G-d at his word when he says he will curse those who curse the Jews. Pay no attention to all those exploding Muslim visiting your local restaurant and celebrations.

It’s those evil Christian who took in the Jewish refuges from Europe, liberated the Nazi death camps, endorsed the re-establishment of the modern state of Israel and supplies you weapons and money to this very day. Yep you’re right we are the real threat. Watch out for us we are just saving you so we can secretly kill you in the end. BooHaaHaa.

[Achihud]

God is not a word in Hebrew. The equivalent word in Hebrew is Elohim which sounds very similar to Allah. So it's very clear that the Muslems are trying to pray to the same Elohim....

hi i am peace4ev4 do what can i do 4 you mate?

[SteveMetch]

God is not a word in Hebrew. The equivalent word in Hebrew is Elohim which sounds very similar to Allah. So it's very clear that the Muslems are trying to pray to the same Elohim....

Whatever it may sound like their is no similarity between Jewish God “I am” and Meccan pagan rock idol “Allah”. There are people with the surname of Lee in England and China as well.

Muslim’s don’t say there is no Allah but Allah. They say there is no God but Allah. Allah was name of a multitude of pagan rock Gods in Mecca and just happened to be surprise surprise surprise the primary rock idol of Mohammed’s tribe. Mohammed didn’t like competition hence the origination of the first submission element of Islamic theology.

Islam “God Names” 101

Before Mohammed was thrown out of Mecca by his pagan brothers he claimed to be prophet of the Allah the rock god. One of many in a pile of rocks.

Once he encountered the Jewish religious tradition in Medina he tried to convince them that he was a prophet of “I am” who the Jews never said aloud out of respect. When asked what the name of the Jewish God was, Mohammed who couldn’t read, used Allah or Lord (what Jews sometimes replaced “I am” with when reading aloud their scriptures). This ignorance proved to the Jews that Mohammed was no prophet of their God “I am”.

After a lot killing, raping and stealing Mohammed returned to Mecca with his band of thieves to plunder and kill all who wouldn’t submit to “Allah” and/or pay the tax thereby claiming all the pilgrimage revenue of the Meccan religious scam still in place, rituals and all, to this very day.

200 years after Mohammed was killed by one of his many sex slaves this chronology was latter jumbled to cover up the obvious scam and evil of Islam when placed in its true chronological order.

In fact given the time between the events and their complication its probable the only way it could have been remembered and past down since it’s easier to remember anything as a story than a random series of sayings and events its present form.

[David II]

Read his biography before you corespond your answers i know about Moses nd i have read his biography question is have you read his.
ok this wil shut it 4 you. There is nothing like unto Allah. he is the same as your but is given greater attributes and nothing will see him until judgement Day written in the quran itself and unfortunately for you everything you can see. cant be him plus he is all merciful and gracious so he cant be evil. we dont steel from the torah our religion will have more information than yours ever will because ours is completely full. does the torah even mention what is in heaven? or what happens in life after death? what are the first questions that will be asked of you wen you reach the grave? what are the punishments of the grave? how many angels can you name i can name six and can even tell you each one does. and can tell you what lots more do and how the sun rises in the morn. what actually happens on judgement day how will everything start. finally what will be in Hell for the wrong doers and unbelievers.

Well, you're a big bugg@red then old son - everyone knows that HE is a Christian. Whilst we're not certain that HE is an Englishman, we're pretty certain that HE isn't Welsh.

In terms of angels, pity they didn't stop some of your lot in 7/7.

[Achihud]

Well, you're a big bugg@red then old son - everyone knows that HE is a Christian. Whilst we're not certain that HE is an Englishman, we're pretty certain that HE isn't Welsh.

Nice try but I don't think you will bring him back though, meanwhile...


i hope you understand Allah cant be same unless I am peace4ev4. peace be with you.

[peace4ev4]

Originally Posted by peace4ev4
Read his biography before you corespond your answers i know about Moses nd i have read his biography question is have you read his.
ok this wil shut it 4 you. There is nothing like unto Allah. he is the same as your but is given greater attributes and nothing will see him until judgement Day written in the quran itself and unfortunately for you everything you can see. cant be him plus he is all merciful and gracious so he cant be evil. we dont steel from the torah our religion will have more information than yours ever will because ours is completely full. does the torah even mention what is in heaven? or what happens in life after death? what are the first questions that will be asked of you wen you reach the grave? what are the punishments of the grave? how many angels can you name i can name six and can even tell you each one does. and can tell you what lots more do and how the sun rises in the morn. what actually happens on judgement day how will everything start. finally what will be in Hell for the wrong doers and unbelievers.

[peace4ev4]

by the way the innocent people who died on 7/7 may Allah have mercy on them. besides thats for Allah to judge not for you.

[Achihud]

Read his biography before you corespond your answers (3x already)

Silly attempt to ignore a clear yes or no question;

Don’t ignore me again by telling that I have to read biographies first.
I’m here to participate in a debate, not to read anyone else’s book collection!

Have jews/christians who are opposed to the idea that…and I quote you again from #30;

Allah (…) is the same as your (god?)

…become wrong doers and unbelievers with the ultimate blasphemy in mind? Yes or No?

What are you going to do, more underlining?

[peace4ev4]

No the good christians and Jews will also go to heaven aslong as they believe in God and worship him and ask for his guidance. its just having different faiths means different guidance to good deeds aslong as you accept God and be a good person and do good deeds you eneter heaven but its not easy as you know to stay on the straight path Islam just has more restrictions for example Alcohol and certain meet without blood, see every muslim as a brother and so on also these which are included in yours are also included in Islam suicide, killing innocents, respect your elders, dont even say ooof to your mother, do not commit adultery dont steel, but yet Muslims still do it, even christians or jews commit suicides. dont worry the muslims who did they're suicides are going to hell without a doubt unless God knows something else. i should'nt say that anyone specific is going to hell because no one knows the outcome of where anyone will end up on judgement day even i might go to hell awww man i hope God forgives.
i mean check this out
dont take this seriously if you don't want its a prophecy He (p.b.u.h) said 1 out 72 sects in Islam will enter Paradise because Islam will be split in to 72 sects. christians in 71 sects only one will go through nd Jews wil have 70 sects and only one will go through so Islam isnt being bias its the 71 sects that are on the wrong path that are going to hell that are mostly representing Islam just like with christians and jews. i mean some christian sects worship satan. some jew might plan deaths behind doors for the sake of Money. these are just examples they might not be true im just ellabarating what i mean.
If i said something of which i didn't clearly know i hope my lord forgives me and hope you forgive me too im serious from the bottom of my heart I love you all.

[Neubill]

That procedure wouldn’t be a very clever one because over the ages we Jews suffered far more in the hands of the Christians than of the Moslems. There’s no guarantee really that Christians will not revert in the future to their old habits so it would be like exchanging cinders for a fire.

Obviously, the Moslems are jealous and are trying to become 'Top Dog' in the Jewish oppression department.

And regarding the Road Map for Peace, I think somebody lost the map.

[AmericanFanatic]

Proposal

Step 1: Divide the West Bank and Gaza into approx. 1,000 logical land tracts.

Step 2: Announce to the world that every Israel citizen killed from this point forward will result in the annexation of 1 land tract in the order outlined by a published map.

Step 3: After a terrorist attack has killed X number of citizens the appropriate set of land tracts will be annexed and all Non-Israel citizens will be forcibly removed from the land tract.

Step 4: Any structures deemed unnecessary or that represent a security risk will be removed.


The logical order of land tracts:

Land tracts around the green line that improve security

Land tracts which help connect settlements to what is currently Israel

Land tracts that contain no Arab populations (settlements, open land etc)

Land tracts that contain shanty town Arab populations

Land tracts that do not include infrastructure (power plants etc)

Land tracts that does include infrastructure

Land tracts that contain more permanent Arab populations

All remaining land

Currently there is no established non-ambiguous price tag on violence; as such Israel lives have no value to the Arabs. Placing a definite value on each murder will bring some measure of meaning to the death of so many people as well as establish an ultimate end to the death toll.

Land for Peace has failed. Its time to give Peace or Land a try.


The two possible long term out comes to this are

Option 1:

Arabs stop killing Jews, 100 to 200 years from now when both populations have grown up in an environment of mutal respect and non-violence they will be able to form a Liberal Democracy as one nation.

Option 2:

Arabs continue to kill Jews and are removed from all of Gaza and the West Bank and find somewhere in the remaining 99.5% of the Middle East to live.

You are a bloody genius! When can we implement this strategy? I've always believed that the Isrealis should have forcibley removed ALL Palestinians back in 1967. If they had done that then things would be much better of than they are now.