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Thread: palestinian mother, israeli father

  1. #1
    tandem
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    palestinian mother, israeli father

    roughly translated by me from a story appearing today in the israeli newspaper ma'ariv

    father is serving in the IDF, mother in the palestinian security force

    by ma'ariv news service

    noor, a beduin name, is a ten year old girl and daughter of a palestinian mother and israeli soldier, has been growing up since her birth in one of the arab villages which is not recognized by either israel or the palestinians. her story is a true reflection of the vast reality of the israeli-palestinian conflict.

    noor was born to an israeli soldier who is currently serving in the IDF and a palestinian mother who is serving in the palestinian security force. during the first intifada, the father, who served in one the palestinian towns, met a beautiful young student who just happens to be the daughter of one of the most respected families in town.

    a quick romance ensued between the already-married soldier and the young palestinian single in the shadow on the intifada.

    these days, before the oslo accords, the territories were regarded as israeli areas and the romance took place without the knowledge of fellow officers or friends. these days it was not a problem to go through military checkpoints and the couple often went out in central israel.

    the love story leads to a pregnancy. the mother was forced to give birth in an undisclosed israeli hospital for her own safety. her last pregnancy days were spent with an arab-israeli family who took both the mother and newborn baby under their care.

    since then, ten years passed, and the girl noor is growing up in an israeli family who is raising her and showers her with love. the biological parents disappeared from her life shortly after her birth. the family who is raising her is asking the israeli authorities for permission to adopt her properly, and are asking israeli institutions to recognize the girl as israeli and treat her as an israeli.

    since she was born, noor is not listed anywhere. she doesn't have a birth certificate, her identity is not listed anywhere, and she doesn't even have a family name. she is studying at a local school with special permission from the head of the education council, and she is getting an informal report card written by hand [i.e. not the same official report card other students receive].

    the family who is raising her say "she is a part of our lives, she's more than just a family member. we are asking to adopt her according to the law. i feel as though i gave birth to her", says the mother.

    a friend of the biological father says the father is refusing to talk about the affair. "he is a married man, he is still serving in the army and is afraid his identity will be exposed. this was an impossible love story, and myself, who served in the same unit for years, was a witness to this kind of incidents happening between israeli soldiers and local palestinian women. i helped the soldier and the young palestinian woman and i hope that someone will find a solution of what to do with this little girl."

    so, should the israelis accept the little girl as one of their own? what should happened to her biological parents? i'm curious to see what others here have to say about this story

  2. #2
    Communication
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    Her custodians are Israeli and they want to adopt her legally. Yes, she should be able to become Israeli. Talk about living on the fringes of society, she can't even get a real report card. That part made me so sad.

    The article said that the mother gave birth while living with an Israeli Arab family but it doesn't state the ethnicity of the Israelis who want to adopt the baby girl. Is that on purpose? Is it the same family? I can't tell from the article. That family will have many challenges.

  3. #3
    andak01
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    Noor isn't really a bedouin name, it's Arabic and means light. Surah Noor is the 55th Surah of the Qur'an.

    Obviously anyone wants to put the welfare of the child first. But in most people's minds, that means raising her in an ethical manner and that means religion. And that means the religion of whoever is raising her, or atheism if that were the case. If nobody steps forward then the parents who raise her have the right to raise her however they see fit.

    My question is, under what circumstances did the biological parents "disappear from her life shortly after birth"? And how did the adoptive parents come to take her in?

  4. #4
    Communication
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    Originally posted by andak01
    Noor isn't really a bedouin name, it's Arabic and means light. Surah Noor is the 55th Surah of the Qur'an.

    Obviously anyone wants to put the welfare of the child first. But in most people's minds, that means raising her in an ethical manner and that means religion. And that means the religion of whoever is raising her, or atheism if that were the case. If nobody steps forward then the parents who raise her have the right to raise her however they see fit.

    My question is, under what circumstances did the biological parents "disappear from her life shortly after birth"? And how did the adoptive parents come to take her in?
    I know a Jewish Israeli of Morocan descent named Nur. I thought it meant fire, but I suppose fire and light are so similar that it can mean either.

    There is the ethical side to religion and then there is religious identity. I think the latter will create the most issues latter on in life for the girl. If you are of mixed heritage, you don't want to be forced into the position of having to deny one side. Unlike mixed African-Caucasian children, where the color of your skin tends to dictate which identity takes center-stage (in a large part because how you are received or perhaps "perceived" by other people tends to influence identity) it's going to require much more soul searching for her as she gets older, especially because Jews and Arabs will probably still be fighting when she becomes a teenager. If we were not in this state of perpetual war, it would be easier for her to just take the best of each culture (at least to the extent that they are different, which isn't as great as people usually assume.)

  5. #5
    andak01
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    Originally posted by Communication
    I know a Jewish Israeli of Morocan descent named Nur. I thought it meant fire, but I suppose fire and light are so similar that it can mean either.
    NaHr is fire, and because of its relationship to the hellfire, it is highly unlikely that someone would name their child by that name.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    So she was named by the family who takes care of her if I read this right, not having a birth cert.

  7. #7
    porcupine
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    Originally posted by tandem
    roughly translated by me from a story appearing today in the israeli newspaper ma'ariv
    father is serving in the IDF, mother in the palestinian security force
    by ma'ariv news service
    noor, a beduin name, is a ten year old girl and daughter of a palestinian mother and israeli soldier, has been growing up since her birth in one of the arab villages which is not recognized by either israel or the palestinians.
    I don’t know if Nur is is a beduine name or not, but the fact is the article DOESN’T state it’s a beduine name. You didn’t translate right. The article says “Nur, shem badui,….” Shem Badui in Hebrew means fictitious, i.e., not her real name. But otherwise GOOD job!

    Originally posted by Communication
    Her custodians are Israeli and they want to adopt her legally. Yes, she should be able to become Israeli. Talk about living on the fringes of society, she can't even get a real report card. That part made me so sad.

    The article said that the mother gave birth while living with an Israeli Arab family but it doesn't state the ethnicity of the Israelis who want to adopt the baby girl. Is that on purpose? Is it the same family? I can't tell from the article. That family will have many challenges.
    Yes, it is the same Arab Israeli family who helped the parents when the child was due. Yes, although there is a name Nur in Israel, I don’t know whether the origin of the name is from Hebrew or Arabic. If assume the origin is from Hebrew, then it’s from “or”=light. Anyway, the girl’s name is not Nur.
    Originally posted by andak01
    My question is, under what circumstances did the biological parents "disappear from her life shortly after birth"? And how did the adoptive parents come to take her in?
    They disappeared from her life because the father, still in IDF, was married and is still married and does not want to reveal his identity. The mother disappeared because she is from a Palestinian village and the Palestinians could hurt her or even kill if they know about the IDF soldier and the baby.
    The debate in Israel is about letting the Arab Israeli family legally adopt her, which will have to be done of course. And also about possible charges for the soldier for “sleeping with the enemy”

    This whole story reminded me of a novel we had to read in high school in Israel by A. B. Yehoshua. The novel called “The Lover” and it’s a love story between a teenager Jew and Arab in Israel. The only reason I remember the novel is because it’s full of sex scenes between the two. And being horny teenagers as we were, we obviously read only those. LOL.
    But I’m proud to say we have such books as a MUST read in Israeli education system. Too bad I can’t say the same about the Palestinians.

  8. #8
    Communication
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    So then it seems rather easy then. She has a Palestinian mother and she will be raised by Israeli Arabs in an Israeli Arab community. So she should be adopted and raised as an Israeli Arab. The people who are raising her are her family. They have been with her all of her life and they want to adopt her officially. What's the problem?

  9. #9
    porcupine
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    Originally posted by Communication
    So then it seems rather easy then. She has a Palestinian mother and she will be raised by Israeli Arabs in an Israeli Arab community. So she should be adopted and raised as an Israeli Arab. The people who are raising her are her family. They have been with her all of her life and they want to adopt her officially. What's the problem?
    There is no problem. It’s just an article (like many others) about something that was not officially known because of trying to make it a secret by the parties involved. (the father doesn’t want his wife to know and nobody should know it on the mother’s side) But now, since she is a big girl, all the administrative legal problems are pressing, so can’t keep it a secret anymore. I think, officially, no one will ever know who the involved parties are, so it’s really not a problem. Just reporting you some daily news from Israel.

  10. #10
    funguid
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    Israeli arab comment

    Quote Originally Posted by Communication View Post
    So then it seems rather easy then. She has a Palestinian mother and she will be raised by Israeli Arabs in an Israeli Arab community. So she should be adopted and raised as an Israeli Arab. The people who are raising her are her family. They have been with her all of her life and they want to adopt her officially. What's the problem?
    they call us israeli arabe but are we we are palastinian people and it is our duty to explain that . i think that we are palstinian for 4000 years and in last 50 years the world try to change us. i would like to hear ur comment about what i say .
    thank you

  11. #11
    Toga
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    Quote Originally Posted by funguid View Post
    they call us israeli arabe but are we we are palastinian people and it is our duty to explain that . i think that we are palstinian for 4000 years and in last 50 years the world try to change us. i would like to hear ur comment about what i say .
    thank you
    Arab is an ethnicity. Palestinian at best defines a region like Sahara, Gobi deseert or the Alps. Therefore, there is a Saharan Arab, Alpian French or a Siberian Russian. Yet, an Alpian Italian or French would still be ethnically Italian or French.

    These days the Palestinian identification carries a nationalistic premise of an entity that is different from Israeli. According to the laws of Israel you cannot carry a Palestinian citizenship and an Israeli one at the same time. In addition, there is no sovereignity by the name of Palestine. There is, however, an area called The Palestinian territories. So, make up your mind what you want to be: Israeli or Palestinian. If you want to be Palestinian, then renounce the Israeli citizenship and move to Ramallah or Nablus.

  12. #12
    Mira
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    Quote Originally Posted by funguid View Post
    they call us israeli arabe but are we we are palastinian people and it is our duty to explain that . i think that we are palstinian for 4000 years and in last 50 years the world try to change us. i would like to hear ur comment about what i say .
    thank you
    Do you know where the word Palestine came from?

  13. #13
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    fungoid

    Do you consider Palestinians to be a separate nation from other Arab nations?
    Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem.
    Author: John Galsworthy 1867-1933, British Novelist, Playwright

  14. #14
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    fungoid

    I'm sorry that I asked you such a difficult question. Obviously you feel that there is no answer to such a question? Or perhaps you just don't want to have discussions with me? Was it something I said? Did I offend you in any way? If so, I'm sorry.
    Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem.
    Author: John Galsworthy 1867-1933, British Novelist, Playwright

  15. #15
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    Still no answer fungoid? Well, I know why:

    Option 1
    If your answer is that Palestinian Arabs are a distinct group from say the Jordanian or Egyptian Arabs then you would have a hard time answering the following:

    Between 1948 and 1967 the Jordanians were in control of the West Bank and the Egyptians controlled Gaza. So, could you please tell us why didn't the Palestinian Arabs demand that an independent Palestine be established in Gaza and the WB? Why did they only start screaming about an independent Palestine after Israel took control of the WB and Gaza in the 1967 war that Nasser provoked?

    Option 2
    If your answer is that Palestinian Arabs are the brothers of Egyptian and Jordanian Arabs, then you would have a hard time countering the following:

    OK then, Israel should negotiate with the Egyptians and Jordanians and get them to accept the return of those territories and there would be no need to establish another Arab state called Palestine. The Palestinian Arabs could just become part of Egypt and Jordan as they were between 1948 and 1967.

    So, fungoid, don't worry I do understand your reluctance to answer my question. You were hoping that the question would just go away ......
    Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem.
    Author: John Galsworthy 1867-1933, British Novelist, Playwright

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