Belgium scraps war crimes law

L@mplighterM · 07-30-2003, 09:10 PM

Belgium scraps war crimes law
Reuters | 7/30/03 | Bart Crols

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - U.S. President George W. Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair will be able to visit Brussels without fear of arrest after Belgium voted to scrap a controversial war crimes law under strong U.S. pressure.

A large majority of the lower house of parliament passed a bill late on Tuesday quashing the universal jurisdiction law, under which cases were launched against Bush, Blair and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

The law soured diplomatic relations between Brussels and Washington after complaints were filed against high-ranking U.S. officials on allegations of war crimes during the war in Iraq.

That prompted Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld last month to suspend funding of a planned new NATO headquarters building.

The senate has to approve the bill on Friday before it takes effect, but that is seen as a formality.

The 1993 law gave Belgian courts the power to try war crimes cases no matter where the alleged offences were committed and regardless of the victim's or perpetrator's nationality.

Courts have been flooded in the past two years with cases against a number of world leaders.

The decision to scotch the law followed several unsuccessful attempts to water it down.

Justice Minister Laurette Onkelinx told the lower house the law had fallen victim to "abusive, even absurd use".

Onkelinx said last week that some 29 cases were being processed by investigating magistrates and most would now likely be canned by the Supreme Court of Appeals.

Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt said earlier this month 10 cases involving the 1994 genocide in Rwanda, plus two related to Guatemala and Chad, all involving Belgians, would continue.

"VANGUARD ROLE"

The high-profile lawsuits against Bush, Blair, Rumsfeld and U.S. General Tommy Franks, the Iraq war commander, never got as far as an examining magistrate and will be automatically dumped.

"Today, Belgium certainly loses this vanguard role, but it remains one of the rare countries which has legislation penalising crimes against international humanitarian law," Onkelinx said.

Matters came to a head when Rumsfeld last month lambasted the law and warned that Washington would be reluctant to send officials to Brussels for NATO meetings.

U.S. officials denied reports they were contemplating moving the 19-nation alliance headquarters, but fear of the loss of jobs, money and prestige shook the Belgian establishment.

Planned new criminal law provisions will restrict the right to launch war crimes cases to Belgians or people resident in the country for at least three years at the time of the crime.

It was a stupid law!

Da Chuckstar · 07-30-2003, 10:54 PM

Who does Belgium think they are? They are a bunch of nobodies. It is a worthless country that nobody cares about, and which is insignificant in world matters.

Just a few weeks ago I had put a chocolate in my mouth, but when I looked at the wrapping and saw that it was made in Belgium, I immediately spat it out.

It is good that they finally ditched this law. I wonder where they get such arrogance from (cough...France...cough).

Belgium · 08-11-2003, 12:35 AM

We are nobodies? What are you then if you say that?? What an arrogance you show in saying this.
I hope you'll never eat again Belgian chocolate, because your big, brutal mouth doesn't deserve it!

britishchap · 08-11-2003, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by Belgium
We are nobodies? What are you then if you say that?? What an arrogance you show in saying this.
I hope you'll never eat again Belgian chocolate, because your big, brutal mouth doesn't deserve it!

Belgium,

I don't think anyone here is talking about the Belgian people, but the Government that passed these laws in the first place. As nefarious lawsuits have been filed against Tony Blair, George W. Bush and Ariel Sharon in Belgium courts over things which have nothing to do with Belgium this does I'm afraid breed resentment that the Belgian courts are acting arrogantly.

Fortunately the Belgian Government is overturning the law which is the right decision and this should lead to the removal of the hostile view of Beligum by countries like Britain, Israel and the USA who have been on the recieving end of the basesless law-suits.

BC.

Belgium · 08-11-2003, 01:11 AM

Arrogantly?? The Belgian courts were very careful with these cases and the most of them are send back to the country of accused.

britishchap · 08-11-2003, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by Belgium
Arrogantly?? The Belgian courts were very careful with these cases and the most of them are send back to the country of accused.

I'm sure they have however having the system in the first place is the problem. Belgium do not have any right to legally "accuse" our PM, the US President or the Israeli PM of anything.

This is clearly also the current view of your government as they have decided, quite rightly, to overturn the law.

Belgium · 08-11-2003, 01:16 AM

Indeed they have. But who then is trying persons who have commited warcrimes? The US or Great-Britain? That should be a good laugh!

britishchap · 08-11-2003, 01:40 AM

Originally posted by Belgium
Indeed they have. But who then is trying persons who have commited warcrimes? The US or Great-Britain? That should be a good laugh!

There are various international apparatus for dealing with wardrimes for countries which either do not have a capacity or the willingness to investigate substanciated allegations of war crimes against their citizens. The objection to the Beligian courts trying this is that it was not based on multilateral agreements but on a unitaleral decision to adoprt the Geneva Conventios as part of the Belgian constituation and then apply this to non-Belgian nationals.

BC.

Belgium · 08-11-2003, 06:17 AM

Yes, we have instantions to try warcrimes, but everyone of them has been threatened by the US if they arrest US-citizens, they will free them with force if necessary...

**Mediocrates** · 08-11-2003, 06:42 AM

Do you really believe that, because it doesn't appear to be true. For example there are many American citizens, women who are being held more or less captive in Jordan and the KSA by local laws. I don't see the US Army liberating them. I don't even see the US Army liberating US citizens held captive in the Philippines, in Indonesia or those held in prison in Peru. I don't see Americans escaping justice in America by fleeing to Switzerland a-la Ira Einhorn being forceably repatriated. Do you?

Belgium · 08-11-2003, 06:45 AM

No, that is a misunderstanding. What I meant is that the US have threatened the International Court in The Hague. I didn't mean local courts etc. Sorry that it wasn't clear.

Lowell · 08-11-2003, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by Belgium
We are nobodies? What are you then if you say that?? What an arrogance you show in saying this.
I hope you'll never eat again Belgian chocolate, because your big, brutal mouth doesn't deserve it!

Hear, hear! Give 'em hell, Belgium- my own great-grandparents were Belgians. And welcome to this fine forum.

L@mplighterM · 08-11-2003, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by Da Chuckstar
Who does Belgium think they are? They are a bunch of nobodies. It is a worthless country that nobody cares about, and which is insignificant in world matters.

Just a few weeks ago I had put a chocolate in my mouth, but when I looked at the wrapping and saw that it was made in Belgium, I immediately spat it out.

It is good that they finally ditched this law. I wonder where they get such arrogance from (cough...France...cough).

Actually I think that Belgium is a little country that was only able to roar because of its membership in the EU. Extradition treaties between EU countries made the war crimes law possible and Belgium thought it was being real smart.

It was supposed to work something like this:

Trumped up or unfounded charges are laid against an individual and a subpoena is issued for that persons arrest. Of course papers to appear arenâ€™t enforceable in countries that donâ€™t have EU membership, the person was served in Britain (example) it would still be up to the British courts to enforce the extradition request. Bush could have made a state visit to Britain and faced an extradition request from Belgium.

It was a bad law that was subject to abuse from the onset and it was abused.

minusthejihad · 08-11-2003, 10:20 AM

One of my favorite drinks in the world is Looza. But the other day I happened to notice that it is made in Belgium. I also love Belgian beer and chocolate. However I noticed that Belgium also boycotts Israeli products.

Well, guess what Belgian producst I buy now? None. And I make it a point to tell EVERY single person I know not to buy Belgian and French products. And I see it working.

MichaelC · 08-11-2003, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by minusthejihad
One of my favorite drinks in the world is Looza. But the other day I happened to notice that it is made in Belgium. I also love Belgian beer and chocolate. However I noticed that Belgium also boycotts Israeli products.

Well, guess what Belgian producst I buy now? None. And I make it a point to tell EVERY single person I know not to buy Belgian and French products. And I see it working.

Damn!

I just went to the fridge to check the "made in" on my bottle of LOOZA Peach Nectar. ! It's true. I have always recommended that people try that juice as it is the very best. But if they boycott Israeli products, I have had my last drop!!

Now I have to undo the damage and de-recommend it to everyone that I got started on the stuff!