Arafat cease-fire and more dead Israelis

[NewsGuy]

Tough to believe that the day after the huge Passover massacre, reports are now coming out of Israel that Palestinian mass murderers have broken into the Israeli border town of Alon Moreh, and opened fire from a machine gun at Israeli citizens. The result: 4 dead Israelis murdered in their home on Passover night.

At the time of this report, the Arab terrorist(s) have not yet been apprehended and are believed to be holed-up in one of the houses in Alon Moreh, and are very possibly holding Israeli hostages.

The residents have been advised by the IDF to stay in their houses, lock their doors and turn off their lights.

[bakuda]

I am sick and tired of this bull ****. I don't live in Israel, so it is easier to say this for me, but ISRAEL NEEDS TO TAKE ACTION!!!!!! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

[Flame]

Those who hate Israel and rather her not respond always ask - but what about the civilians? Considering it's a civilian population, and not an army, who are the perpetrators... I have to wonder how much of an effort it takes to remain so blind.

If anyone saw 60 Min the other night they did a piece about the hospitals in Israel... pals get treated like everyone else and get it for free... the gist of this piece was not about how amazing it is that Israel even treats them... but was spun on the palestine side... (how unusual) The pal's working there complained how they didn't get any respect and the family memebers of the injured pals complained how the Jews pass by and give them dirty looks... and the nerve of the Jews to request not having to share a room with the injured pals... which the hospital doesn't seem to be able to do for their own people. All the Jewish doctors bragged how politics doesn't get in the way of hospital business... one niave doctor even thought by his treating a terrorist... that his kindness changed the terrorists mind.

[NewsGuy]

In a press conference this evening, Arafat announced that he is "ready to work towards" an immediate cease-fire without preconditions.

The cease-fire would be supposedly based on Zinni's watered-down version of the Tenet and Mitchell plans, where the Palestinian commitment to stop terrorism would be even more limited than in those plans.

This announcement by Arafat follows the Passover massacre in which more than 20 Israelis were murdered by a Palestinian suicide bomber and more than 170 wounded, many in critical condition and expected to die shortly.

Israel has begun making preparations for a wide-scale military operation in the Palestinian terrorist areas, and the IDF is reportedly calling for a partial draft of its stand-by soldiers.

Meanwhile, the Palestinians announced that if Israel began the military operation, then the Palestinians troops, in addition to the other Islamic terrorist forces, would all enter into the combat.

Within an hour of Arafat's cease-fire promise, a Palestinian terrorist infiltrated an Israeli border town (above), murdering 3 Israelis and wounding 2 others, as an example of what the Israelis can expect from Arafat's cease-fire.

[edaly]

I have to agree that Arafat is possibly one of the worst leaders I've ever seen. A truce from him doesn't mean much since he seems to have only the faintest control over the extremist groups that carry out most of the attacks.

However I don't think the recent terror attacks should prevent Israel from negotiating. A peace agreement with the PA would pave the way for the withdrawal from the occupied territories which would in turn dry up the popular support for continued attacks by the extremist groups. This is, IMO, a first necessary step towards eliminating the terror attacks.

There's a reason 80%+ of palestinians support suicide bombings - their cities are under constant siege, they are humiliated at every turn by the Israelis (how would you feel if you had to strip naked at a checkpoint every time you drove to the other side of town?), and most importantly, their own family members have been killed during IDF operations like bombings and searches for terrorists in refugee camps.

Unfortunately both sides seem to be locked in a "you go first" catch-22 situation. Neither wants to actually make any concessions without the other making theirs first. Each side is so concerned with retaliating for the last round of civilians killed on their side that they can't break out of the tit-for-tat spiral.

Here's what I think Israel should do: negotiate an immediate cease-fire with Arafat, knowing full well that there will be more terror attacks, and not letting that stop them. Because moving further down the path to peace is more important than the need for short-term retaliation.

Here's what I think Arafat should do: declare an immediate cease-fire without first getting any Israel agreement or concessions. Put the heaviest pressure he can on the militant groups - put them in jail and DON'T release them even when Israel retaliates for the recent attacks like he does every time. Take the bombings and incursions and searches and civilian causalties and LUMP it, because moving further down the path to peace is more important than the need for short-term retaliation.

Both are unlikely to happen.. but imagine if one side were to make concessions "in good faith" without getting immediate results from the other side? If they weren't destroyed by the outcry of their own people, it might actually work.


edaly

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by edaly
I have to agree that Arafat is possibly one of the worst leaders I've ever seen. A truce from him doesn't mean much since he seems to have only the faintest control over the extremist groups that carry out most of the attacks.

No, he is one of the most successful terrorists in history. Thanks to Western moral confusion and liberal fantasies, the Father of All Terrorists has been elevated to the position of "Noble Peace Prize" winner and statesman.

However I don't think the recent terror attacks should prevent Israel from negotiating. A peace agreement with the PA would pave the way for the withdrawal from the occupied territories which would in turn dry up the popular support for continued attacks by the extremist groups. This is, IMO, a first necessary step towards eliminating the terror attacks.

You simply don't get it. Israel has done everything conceivable to get a "peace agreement." Arafat's terrorist PA doesn't want a peace agreement, they want Israel to surrender. The idea that Arafat and groups like Hamas are opposed to each other is simply untrue, and that has been proven over and over. Arafat got an armed police force not to fight the terrorists, but to kill Jews.

There's a reason 80%+ of palestinians support suicide bombings - their cities are under constant siege, they are humiliated at every turn by the Israelis (how would you feel if you had to strip naked at a checkpoint every time you drove to the other side of town?), and most importantly, their own family members have been killed during IDF operations like bombings and searches for terrorists in refugee camps.

And why are their cities "under constant siege"? Because they engage in the most brutal and evil terrorist attacks. It isn't just a handful of extremists. The PA has turned every school, every media outlet, and every mosque in the territories into a terrorist promotion, training, and recruitment center.

It's good that you feel sorry for Palestinian families who have suffered. But what about Israeli families who have suffered? With 85% of Palestinians supporting suicide bomb attacks, IMO they bear collective rsponsibility.

(Today's attack was by a 16 year old girl. How can a 16 year old girl kill herself out of "desperation"? She has no experience. She killed herself because she was brainwashed by militant Islam to be a walking, ticking, Jew killer.)

Unfortunately both sides seem to be locked in a "you go first" catch-22 situation. Neither wants to actually make any concessions without the other making theirs first. Each side is so concerned with retaliating for the last round of civilians killed on their side that they can't break out of the tit-for-tat spiral.

Nonsense. Israel offered a Palestinian state, 96% of the West Bank, East Jerusalem as their capital. Now, if this was not a perfect offer, surely it contained major concessions. But the PA responded not with a counter offer, but a war. Really, they are the ones who are completely intransigent: they demand that Israel give in on all of their demands, particularly the right to relocate one million hostile Arabs to within Israel.

It is all just a ruse to destroy Israel.

Here's what I think Israel should do: negotiate an immediate cease-fire with Arafat, knowing full well that there will be more terror attacks, and not letting that stop them. Because moving further down the path to peace is more important than the need for short-term retaliation.

Incredible.

Zinni and Israel proposed a cease fire. The PA came back with a long list of questions. Then, while the questions were being answered they unleashed a wave of terror -- the long-planned Passover massacres.

The wave of terror was the PA's response to the cease fire proposal.

When will you get it? How many lies, how much anti-semitic propaganda, how many brutal attacks will it take?

Here's what I think Arafat should do: declare an immediate cease-fire without first getting any Israel agreement or concessions. Put the heaviest pressure he can on the militant groups - put them in jail and DON'T release them even when Israel retaliates for the recent attacks like he does every time. Take the bombings and incursions and searches and civilian causalties and LUMP it, because moving further down the path to peace is more important than the need for short-term retaliation.

Of course, he always declares a "cease fire" just after a wave of terrorist attacks and as Israel begins to take action to defend itself.

Maybe he should tell Hamas and Islamic Jihad that this time he is really mad. Yep, Yasir Arafat ain't gonna take no more from the terrorists. You know, he has dedicated his life to fighting terrorists...

Meanwhile, Arafat has been busy calling for one million martyrs (read "terrorists" to those with their eyes open).

Both are unlikely to happen.. but imagine if one side were to make concessions "in good faith" without getting immediate results from the other side? If they weren't destroyed by the outcry of their own people, it might actually work.
edaly

I can only think of one word in response: Naive.

[Flame]

ibrodsky,

The last thing Daly is naive. For the last 2 or more years he has made a career of bombarding Jewish message boards with his pro-plo stance.... all the while calling for balance and declaring how "he is interested in learning." In 2 year you woudl think he would have learned something ... but he continues to jump from one messae board to another where he finds joy in calling Jews racist, calling for balance, and act as if he is the moral authority (in between drug rehab)... and lives in peace and comfort and safety in Vancouver CA.

This is a predetor, a liar, a stalker and a highly disturbed individual who's favorite passtime is to find where Jews gather and tell them off.

[raven]

ibrodsky: Let me introduce jdaly to you. This guy spends night and day looking for Jewish Forums to post on. He does Post night and day on this subject only. He has a fixation first with Jews, and then with the Is/Pal. issue. He starts out pretending he doesnt know much about the subject and then increasinly that he is Pro Pal becomes clear to all.

He makes excuses for every Palistinian outrage, attack and murder, including 9/11. He tries to cover his bias by claiming he is for "PEACE". This is not true as you will learn.

He watches us bleed and this is his entertainment. This is also how he manages his stress. He uses these and other boards to keep him from taking Heroin and Alchol. (He has admitted that he is both an Alcholic and a Herioin Addict--incidently HE loves to talk about his addiction). These boards are both Fun and Therapy for HIS PROBLEM. We are so sorry about his problem but that doesnt excuse his hatred of Israel and Jews.

There is NOTHING this guy doesnt understand about the subject. Hes been at it on the BOARDS for 2 years. How long he has called and written Radio and TV in his home town and Nationally is anyones guess. Dont play his game. He knows ALL.

Just thought you ought to know.

[watcher]

john daly also likes to post under various usernames in forum history to promote his views of terrorism... correction to promote terrorism.

[ibrodsky]

Thanks Watcher, Raven, and Flame.

Next time I won't be so nice to him.

[raven]

Watcher: Daly was here before as Jean Le--something or other. I told people just who he was and he went away. He hates his little "I dont know about this subject/I just wanna learn/ Im for PEAACCEE/ Act to be disturbed. ITs sick.

Our death and destruction is ENTERTAINMENT and FUN for this man.

[raven]

While Im at it. I dated and almost married a Guy from Netanya. So I take what has happened yesterday, (was it?--loosing count already) rather personally. Have to see if I can find him, IF he is still in the US and see if his family is OK. (Ben Ami--if you read these boards, L. wants to know if your family is OK) [shot in the dark]

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by edaly
However I don't think the recent terror attacks should prevent Israel from negotiating.

I'm not sure how rewarding Arafat for terrorism can achieve anything at the negotiating table.

In fact, so long as Arafat thought that his terrorism would not be punished, he produced all kinds of pre-conditions and ridiculous demands to derail the negotiations with Zinni. In Arafat's mind, he was sure that he could get more out of the negotiations if he used terrorism at the same time.

But as soon as he saw the IDF tanks in massive numbers heading directly to his headquarters, he all of a sudden tried to talk about a peace plan again.

Clearly, it is a waste of time (and worse) to negotiate while terorrism is ongoing.

Hopefully, Arafat's replacement will get the message that terrorism needs to be eliminated or no rewards will be handed out.

Both are unlikely to happen.. but imagine if one side were to make concessions "in good faith" without getting immediate results from the other side? If they weren't destroyed by the outcry of their own people, it might actually work.

Well, for about 3 years Israel withdrew its troops completely from the major Palestinian urban centers and gave the Palestinians complete control by their own government over their day-to-day lives.

What did Israel get in return? More and more terrorism and continuous mass murder of Israelis.

In fact, that's extactly what toppled the dovish Barak government and got Sharon elected on the platform that he would take a harder line against Arab terrorism.

Making concessions to the Palestinians was always, unfortunately, a waste of time accompanied by loss of life.

[Flame]

This is the point of no return.... and what do I just hear on the news????????? A call for Israel to show restrain! How many cease fires have been ignored? How many acts of terrorism has Israel endured. GO FOR IT!

[raven]

Like I said: Israel...LOCK AND LOAD-already.

Youall...CNN is presenting one Pro Pal "commentator" after the other. Weve had a steady diet of Christiane Amapour, most probably an Agent, (which or how many sides she is an agent for no one knows) for the Arabs. Now we are going to see BAY BUCHANNON and Donna Brazil. Call or write anywhere you can to tell the Israeli side to get off their behinds and demand to come onto CNN and present the Israili side. As usual they are slow on the uptake and whats said FIRST and MOST OFTEN is remembered.