takeo's roadmap for peace (summary)

[Mil]

Posted by Aid:

There people understand parody and sarcasm.


Davaite otrezem sobake nogy....

[aid]

Davayte.

[genghis_tom]

Forgive me, I only read the first post (choosing not to wade through 20+ pages), but based on my limited reading...
Very interesting Takeo. I wish it was that easy. Hopefully this post, several years later than most of the discussion, will bring this thread back into discussion.

[minusthejihad]

Aid, chaulk up another for the Russian-Jewish confederacy. Yeehaw! Soon we will take over the World!.... And then Brooklyn!

[Mediocrates]

I merged it

[genghis_tom]

Doesn't anyone think that Takeo's plan at least has some merit? True, many things could be improved, as seen in the following pages, but as a whole, if it was adopted, it would be a postive step.

[minusthejihad]

I merged it

Cool, found it, thanks!

[minusthejihad]

Doesn't anyone think that Takeo's plan at least has some merit? True, many things could be improved, as seen in the following pages, but as a whole, if it was adopted, it would be a postive step.

Even Farakkah and Genghis Khan said some things that made sense. Occasionally even a schitzophrentic has a moment of clarity.

[Canajew]

Doesn't anyone think that Takeo's plan at least has some merit? True, many things could be improved, as seen in the following pages, but as a whole, if it was adopted, it would be a postive step.

http://www.israelforum.com/board/sho...27&postcount=6

I was going to go through your proposal piece by piece, but there is no point. I like the general outline of your plan (though I have numerous reservations) but ibrodsky is right - this plan is in no way connected with any sort of actual reality. Its like the joke about the economist stranded on a desert island with a can of tuna but no can opener - his solution - assume a can opener.

OK, so assume Israel replaces sharon with a government that will buckle into Palestinian terrorism. Next, assume Arafat will be a good guy now, even though he has never been in the past. Next, assume the international community actually cares about what goes on (aside from caring about political considerations, which are different) and is willing to properly address it (something it has not done before) AND is willing to pay for it with no guarantees that the PA will not just ciphen more $ away for terrorism.

Next, assume the Israelis would stand for allowing Arafat into Jerusalem for talks, and assume Arafat will not use this as an opportunity to call for a million martyrs to march on Jerusalem (if you haven't noticed, he is a little bit of a grandstander, and I doubt he would be able to resist such an opportunity, at least in Arabic).

It goes on like this. Every step in your plan is an assumption. You need to provide some sort of evidence or argument that such assumptions are reasonable (or at least reasonably possible). Steps 1 through 4 are all mere assumptions based on absolutely no evidence, whether empirical or theoretical, and as such this 'plan' is doomed to fail like the rest.

I have no plan of my own, so please don't ask me what i would do. I don't know. I don't think there is a solution, because the Palestinians will not allow it.

However, there are preconditions to a peaceful agreement. These include:

(1) the presence of an interlocutor on both sides, prepared to bargain in good faith and to be bound by any eventual agreement.

(2) a willingness of the domestic populations of each side to be prepared to be bound by an agreement negotiated in good faith by their leaders.

(3) the Palestinians must stop brainwashing their population. (note that this is not a reciprocal precondition as were the previous two because this circumstance is unique to Palestinian society and unless it is addressed BEFORE negotiations are entered into such negotiations cannot succeed)

There are undoubtedly many more, and I cannot, therefore, say that these are sufficient preconditions for a peace settlement, but rather that they are necessary conditions. Without the first two, ANY negotiations will fail, whether in the context of international agreements or private business agreements, while without the third the Palestinians will never be in a position to satisfy conditions 1 and 2.

Sure, the idea is a good one in theory. problem is, it's delusional fantasy completely detached from reality-as-it-actually-exists.

If a comprehensive peace agreement were adopted, that would be a positive step too. Don't let the fact that conditions for that are completely absent get in the way of delusional utopian fantasies.

[FOGOMAINS]

http://forum-international.spiegel.d...2387#post72387

[jeans_moha]

thanks

[eliovich]

In reality what's needed is a brand new approach to the issue and nothing that gives any room for irrelivent discussions or relies on the good-will of the two sides. The latter has been tried over and over. I say unilateral separation of Israel (on Israeli terms of course) from the West Bank and Gaza is best way to accomplish peace. And Jerusalem remains Israeli - of course.

THE best way to accomplish peace IS new thinking for the new economy.
Postindustrial developement is the answer.