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Thread: 2 US Soldiers Beaten, Dragged, Killed in Mosul, Iraq

  1. #1
    cerulean
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    2 US Soldiers Beaten, Dragged, Killed in Mosul, Iraq

    Nov. 23, 2003. 05:37 PM
    Iraqi mob beats bodies of slain U.S. soldiers
    MOSUL, Iraq (AP) - Iraqi teenagers dragged two bloodied American soldiers from a wrecked vehicle, pummelled them with concrete blocks and slit their throats today, witnesses said, describing a burst of savagery in a city once safe for Americans.
    Another soldier was killed by a bomb and a U.S.-allied police chief was assassinated.

    The U.S.-led coalition also said it grounded commercial flights after the military confirmed that a missile struck a DHL cargo plane that landed Saturday at Baghdad International Airport with its wing aflame.

    Nevertheless, American officers insisted they were making progress in bringing stability to Iraq, and the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council named an ambassador to Washington - an Iraqi-American woman who spent the last decade lobbying U.S. legislators to promote democracy in her homeland.

    The appointment of veteran Washington lobbyist Rend Rahim Francke was announced by Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari. Francke, who has spent most of her life abroad, led the Iraq Foundation, a Washington-based pro-democracy group, and has helped plan Iraq's transition from Saddam Hussein's rule.

    The appointment will renew the diplomatic ties between Washington and Baghdad severed in 1990 when Saddam invaded Kuwait.

    Witnesses to the Mosul attack said gunmen shot two soldiers driving through the city centre, sending their vehicle crashing into a wall. The 101st Airborne Division said the soldiers were driving to another garrison.

    About a dozen swarming teenagers dragged the soldiers out of the wreckage and beat them with concrete blocks, the witnesses said.

    "They lifted a block and hit them with it on the face," said Younis Mahmoud, 19.

    The bodies were seen with their throats cut. It was unknown whether the soldiers were alive or dead when pulled from the wreckage.

    Another teenager, Bahaa Jassim, said some looted the vehicle of weapons, CDs and a backpack.

    "They remained there for over an hour without the Americans knowing anything about it," he said. "I... went and told other troops."

    Television video showed the soldiers' bodies splayed on the ground as U.S. troops secured the area. One victim's foot appeared to have been severed.

    The frenzy recalled the October 1993 scene in Somalia, when locals dragged the bodies of marines killed in fighting with warlords through the streets.

    In Baqouba, just north of Baghdad, insurgents detonated a roadside bomb as a 4th Infantry Division convoy passed, killing one soldier and wounding two others, the military said.

    In Baghdad, Brig.-Gen. Mark Kimmitt confirmed the Mosul deaths but refused to provide details.

    "We're not going to get ghoulish about it," he said.

    The savagery of the attack was unusual for Mosul, once touted as a success story in sharp contrast to the anti-American violence seen in Sunni Muslim areas north and west of Baghdad.

    In recent weeks, however, attacks against U.S. troops have increased in Mosul, raising concerns the insurgency is spreading.

    Simultaneously, attacks have accelerated against Iraqis considered to be supporting Americans - such as policemen and politicians working for the interim Iraqi administration.

    Today, gunmen killed the Iraqi police chief of Latifiyah, 32 kilometres south of Baghdad, and his bodyguard and driver, American and Iraqi officials said. No further details were released.

    The assassination occurred one day after suicide bombers struck two police stations northeast of Baghdad within 30 minutes, killing at least 14 people. Gunmen on Saturday also killed an Iraqi police colonel protecting oil installations in Mosul.

    Elsewhere, Iraqi police said six U.S. Apache helicopter gunships blasted marshland after insurgents fired four rocket-propelled grenades at the American military garrison at the city's northern end. One Iraqi passer-by was killed in the air attack, police said.

    In Kirkuk, 240 kilometres north of Baghdad, a bomb exploded at an oil compound, injuring three American civilian contractors from the U.S. firm Kellogg Brown & Root. The three suffered facial cuts from flying glass, Lt.-Col. Matt Croke said.

    KBR, a subsidiary of Halliburton, also has a significant presence at Baghdad's Palestine Hotel, which was rocketed by insurgents Friday, wounding one civilian.

    "We all know that Americans are being threatened," Croke said.

    Kimmitt told reporters in Baghdad that witnesses saw two surface-to-air missiles fired Saturday at a cargo plane operated by the Belgium-based package service DHL as it left for Bahrain.

    The plane was the first civilian airliner hit by insurgents, who have shot down several military helicopters with shoulder-fired rockets.

    DHL and Royal Jordanian, the only commercial passenger airline flying into Baghdad, immediately suspended flights on orders of the coalition authority.

    Despite the ongoing violence, U.S. officials insisted the occupation was going well.

    "If you look at the accomplishments of the coalition since March of this year, it has been enormous," marine Gen. Peter Pace, vice-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said in Tikrit.

    Pace is touring Afghanistan and Iraq.
    This is very similar to the horrible deaths of the American soldiers in Mogadishu, Somalia and the deaths of two Israeli reservists in Ramallah. I can hardly bear to read about the viciousness of these mobs.

  2. #2
    L@mplighterM
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    Well now if you listen to Bush Administration incidents of this nature are caused by around 5,000 insurgents. I think the Bush Administration is lying because the fact of the matter is that more and more Iraqis hate Americans.

    No wonder Bush wants to clean his hands of the whole Iraqi affair by June 2004. I think the way to deal with mad dogs is to hunt them down and kill them and it seems to me that there’s much killing to be done in Iraq. Everyone that was in attendance at the mutilation and cheered should be hunted down and executed.

  3. #3
    Noam
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    Originally posted by L@mplighterM
    Well now if you listen to Bush Administration incidents of this nature are caused by around 5,000 insurgents. I think the Bush Administration is lying because the fact of the matter is that more and more Iraqis hate Americans.

    No wonder Bush wants to clean his hands of the whole Iraqi affair by June 2004. I think the way to deal with mad dogs is to hunt them down and kill them and it seems to me that there’s much killing to be done in Iraq. Everyone that was in attendance at the mutilation and cheered should be hunted down and executed.
    Nope.

    The WHOLE AMERICAN (actually WESTERN) military structure is NOT PREPARED to fight this kind of war.
    WEST POINT is USELESS HERE.

    IT REQUIRES RE-INVENTING THE WHEEL.

    IT TAKES TIME. SEVERAL YEARS. These slaughtered and slit throats are TUITION FEES.

    But the AMerican Machine is goint to learn (with the help of the IDF)--and the result is going to DEVASTATE TERRORISM.

    ALL WE NEED IS PATIENCE. Failure is NOT an option.

  4. #4
    takeo
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    This is very similar to the horrible deaths of the American soldiers in Mogadishu, Somalia and the deaths of two Israeli reservists in Ramallah. I can hardly bear to read about the viciousness of these mobs.
    That's because your country has never been occupied. Similar stories happened to Germans in Europe after liberation. Those people hate the occupiers, who are also responsible for years of embargo and bombings. When i went to Iraq in 1999 I noticed the anti-American feelings, it could only have increased since march 2003.

    Well now if you listen to Bush Administration incidents of this nature are caused by around 5,000 insurgents. I think the Bush Administration is lying because the fact of the matter is that more and more Iraqis hate Americans.

    No wonder Bush wants to clean his hands of the whole Iraqi affair by June 2004.
    that's right

    I think the way to deal with mad dogs is to hunt them down and kill them and it seems to me that there’s much killing to be done in Iraq. Everyone that was in attendance at the mutilation and cheered should be hunted down and executed.
    wow, that's a special kind of "liberation" isn't it? everyone who still uses the word "liberation" in the current circumstances makes himself ridiculous beyond repair.




    IT TAKES TIME. SEVERAL YEARS. These slaughtered and slit throats are TUITION FEES.

    But the AMerican Machine is goint to learn (with the help of the IDF)--and the result is going to DEVASTATE TERRORISM.

    ALL WE NEED IS PATIENCE. Failure is NOT an option.
    you had a lot of patience in Vietnam, but it didn't pay off. the same is likely going to happen in Iraq.

  5. #5
    Enuff
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    Originally posted by takeo
    you had a lot of patience in Vietnam, but it didn't pay off. the same is likely going to happen in Iraq.
    Were it not for the worldwide necessity, dependence and strategic security value of the middle-east regional oil reserves, I’d concede the point and say your probably correct in both the assumption and the probable outcome.

    However, given all of the above I feel you will be tragically disappointed and mistaken in the final outcome. As we are only in the infancy stages of this conflict, it does appear the final costs will be extremely high but the world’s survived similar conflicts and, with exception of some cultures, moved on, pressed and progressed forward.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    We have a lot of patience vis a vis Panama and it's paying off. We have a lot of patience vis a vis Hati and it's paying off. We have a lot of patience vis a vis Kosovo and it's paying off.

    I'd wager that any nation's attempt to restructure another country is successful 50% of the time. I'd also wager that any new country is an experiment that might not succeed. Those two things do not make the attempt pointless.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    Communists can always point to any violent revolution like Cuba or Russia or countries in Africa or the middle east and claim victory because there are in effect

    ~No Success Criteria~

    With enough bullets and mayhem you can ALWAYS claim you won. And if you can't, you can blame other exogenous factors real or imaginary.

  8. #8
    Communication
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    What is the likelihood of Iraq remaining one country when all this is over?

  9. #9
    takeo
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    Were it not for the worldwide necessity, dependence and strategic security value of the middle-east regional oil reserves, I’d concede the point and say your probably correct in both the assumption and the probable outcome.

    However, given all of the above I feel you will be tragically disappointed and mistaken in the final outcome. As we are only in the infancy stages of this conflict, it does appear the final costs will be extremely high but the world’s survived similar conflicts and, with exception of some cultures, moved on, pressed and progressed forward.
    But the conditions you explained above will not be necessarily help the US, it only makes the stakes higher for both the US as for the Iraqi's (as was the case during the Vietnam-war, higly strategic during the cold war)
    Iraqi oil will flow anyway, and witch government runs it isn't really so important for the international community (for example they do business with Iran and Libia just as well, and will with any new Iraqi government, no matter if it's pro- or anti-us)
    the oil will of course encourage the us to invest more to win this war, but if much more Americans are going to die for years to come the time will come that the majority of Americans will demand a withdrawel, and I'm talking about the near future.

    The only positive outcome for the us would be if Iraqi oil becomes profitable and able to sustain the Iraqi war, in that case the US will be able to invest huge sums of money in Iraq and literally "bribe" iraqi's into complying, for example by multiplying the wages.


    We have a lot of patience vis a vis Panama and it's paying off. We have a lot of patience vis a vis Hati and it's paying off. We have a lot of patience vis a vis Kosovo and it's paying off.
    Haiti is paying off? It's still the most unstable and poorest country in the Western hemispere...
    Panama wasn't a hard one was it? more comparable to Grenada than to vietnam... like France invading Andorra or luxemburg...


    Communists can always point to any violent revolution like Cuba or Russia or countries in Africa or the middle east and claim victory because there are in effect
    it only succeeded if they succeeded in gainign the hearts and minds of the people, so clearly not in Afghanistan.


    What is the likelihood of Iraq remaining one country when all this is over?
    I think the Arab part of iraq will remain one part, but it's likely the Kurds are going to seceed or in any case have de facto independance.

    But it's very likely that a civil war will erupt between shiites and sunnites.

  10. #10
    L@mplighterM
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    U.S. Retracts Report of G.I.'s Being Mutilated
    By DEXTER FILKINS

    Published: November 24, 2003


    AGHDAD, Iraq, Nov. 24 — Military officials retracted a report today that two American soldiers had been slashed in their throats in an attack Sunday in the northern city of Mosul.

    A military official here, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that the two soldiers had died of gunshot wounds to the head and that their bodies had been pulled by Iraqis from their car and robbed of their personal belongings.

    The military official said that contrary to some reports, the men had not been beaten by rocks or mutilated in any way.

    The victims, both soldiers of the 101st Airborne Division, were shot by unidentified gunmen who had stopped in front of the American's car, forcing it to come to a halt. The assailants got out of their car and fired at the Americans through the windshield.

    "Their throats were not slit," the military official said. "The cause of death was gunshot wounds to the head."

    The statement by the military official today offered some clarity to what appeared to be a gruesome killing reminiscent of a well-known incident involving the deaths of American soldiers in Mogadishu, Somalia, in 1993. That incident, in which an American soldier was dragged through the streets of Mogadishu, was seen as one of the principal reasons the United States quit its attempts to bring order to the capital.

    The military official said that while an initial military report had said that the men's throats had been cut, further investigation revealed no evidence of such wounds. The military official said that the men had been pulled from the car, presumably to make it easier for Iraqis to rifle through the men's clothing and steal their possessions. The men were robbed of their personal belongings, the official said, including their guns. But they were not dragged through the streets, the official said.

    The identities of the men remained undisclosed today pending the notification of their families.

    Despite today's statements, important questions remained unanswered about the incident. The main one was why the men were traveling alone through the city streets. Military rules in Mosul and other parts of Iraq generally prohibit troops from traveling outside their bases except in a convoy. The Americans who were killed were traveling in an unarmored sport-utility-vehicle.

    "There is no excuse," the military official said.

    Another mystery was the initial reports about the men having their throats cut. The official could offer no explanation for that.

    The incident in Mosul was the latest in a wave of violence that has hit the city in recent months. In the first months after the war, Mosul, an ethnically mixed city of more than two million people, was something of a showcase for the American occupation. Its large Kurdish and Arab populations mingled peacefully, and the soldiers of the 101st Airborne spent millions of dollars refurbishing the city's public buildings and streets.

    The atmosphere began to change in September. Since then, there have been a string of attacks on American forces, prompting the 101st to step up military operations inside the city. Last week, in an incident still under investigation, two Black Hawk helicopters crashed in the city, sending 17 soldiers to their deaths.

    Also today, American military police trying to quell a prison riot in Baghdad killed three Iraqis and wounded eight. The riot broke out at the Baghdad Correctional Center when a group of Iraqis began throwing rocks at the guards. A military official said that when the riot began to spread, American military police were given permission to use lethal force.

    The riot lasted about 10 minutes, the official said.

    The Baghdad Correctional Center used to be known as Abu Ghraib, which had the reputation as one of the grimmest destinations for political prisoners during the reign of Saddam Hussein.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/24/in...1070341200&amp

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