Manual : How to have a Muslim victory

[chrisjohn316]

The problem with Muslims wishing to express their viewpoints lies not so much in the substance but rather in the methodology.

Let us consider a case study, the Middle East for example.

The Muslims wish to have "justice" for Palestinians who are suffering. No one would deny that people are suffering... for who would say that refugee camps, for example, are a pleasant experience.

So we now have a motive established for change.

The current thinking among Muslims, and this has been the accepted norm for decades now, is that killing Jews is the best way to proceed.

This is incorrect and I will draw an analogy here with the 1940-1941 bliz of London. For the time that the Nazi Luftwaffe bombed the airfrields they were winning... no airfields means no aircraft can take off. Quick and simple. Instead the attention was turned to terror and so the Brits were able to launch ever more aircraft to defend themselves and they succeeded.

In the same manner, Muslims view the thought of revenge as equalling a path to victory. However that is wrong.

Ask anyone, "would you cower under threats and attacks from an enemy?" The answer is of course not, if they had half a chance to fight back.

So having established that the current Muslim methodology does not work and never will work, what can be done to further the Muslim cause?

I have to say that I am really surprised that the path I am about to lay out has not been used.

Here it is... non violent protest. Not new, but it will work.

Try this... get 5000 muslims prepared to die for what they believe in. Dress in white and then march silently into Israeli areas.

The Israeli Army CANNOT kill 5000 unarmed people!

Make sure you have live action cameras everywhere so the whole world can see it and stream it live on the net and live over news services everywhere.

Let NOT one muslim say or hurt an Israeli. The 5000 muslims MUST be prepared to die silently and non violently.

That is how to win a Muslim victory, but hey, don't listen to me... keep murdering Jews with murder-suicide-bombers as that is working NOT!

Even better still, negotiate a peace and live in harmony.

[andak01]

Originally posted by chrisjohn316
Here it is... non violent protest. Not new, but it will work.

It's not new to the Palestinians. They attempted such during the first intifada.

[Mil]

The only way Arabs can beat the Israelis in anything, besides oil, is to remove their regimes and install stable democratic governments.

[chrisjohn316]

Originally posted by andak01
It's not new to the Palestinians. They attempted such during the first intifada.

In the "settlements" there are what, 7000 Jews and like 1,000,000 Muslims? HELLO!!!!

On the "such and such" a day every able Muslim man, woman and child, pack a lunch and put on your walking shoes.

NOT to attack the Israelis BUT to occupy land.

The Israeli Army will NOT to do TWO things, obey orders to shoot on unarmed civilians... can you imagine such a policy! Also the Israeli Army cannot arrest or beat so many people.

Maybe there are a few in the Israeli Army that would have no problem doing that, but the majority would revolt.

The answer for the Palestinians is not killing Jews. The answer is to let the Jews kill them. They will be amazed how quickly they get support...

"News...

Today 2,120 Muslims were beaten by Israeli Soliders and 432 were shot or wounded. The Muslims leader have stated they will not stop till they recieve land. Many Israeli soliders are refusing to carry out their orders and being arrested making some groups inoperational."

You see that is what would happen, but hey I can't see them doing that because they have a blood lust. Their emotions control their reason.

[David_in_NYC]

CJ, you clearly don't understand the first thing about Islam.

There is no political settlement that can satisfy Islam. Islam believes fervently that it is its destiny to dominate the world. All that stand in its way must be slain or enslaved. Any tactic or strategy is permissible in the pursuit of this ultimate goal.

As long as people believe that Islam can be negotiated with, Islam wins. To them, that is an eminently exploitable weakness (see the last 5 1/2 decades of Israel's history) and a signal that their victory is near. Once in power, no agreement made is binding.

If you think I'm kidding, or exaggerating, perhaps you'd best do some actual research and hear what the priests of Islam say to their own followers, and what their Koran tells them to do.

[chrisjohn316]

Originally posted by David_in_NYC
CJ, you clearly don't understand the first thing about Islam.

There is no political settlement that can satisfy Islam. Islam believes fervently that it is its destiny to dominate the world. All that stand in its way must be slain or enslaved. Any tactic or strategy is permissible in the pursuit of this ultimate goal.

As long as people believe that Islam can be negotiated with, Islam wins. To them, that is an eminently exploitable weakness (see the last 5 1/2 decades of Israel's history) and a signal that their victory is near. Once in power, no agreement made is binding.

If you think I'm kidding, or exaggerating, perhaps you'd best do some actual research and hear what the priests of Islam say to their own followers, and what their Koran tells them to do.

"CJ, you clearly don't understand the first thing about Islam." That is your opinion.

If you think killing Muslims will bring peace then you are mistaken.

Also vilifying Islam won't help either. Muslims are people like you and I. I disagree with Islam but know that Muslims are people with different views.

The only acceptable outcome in my view is peace, not more killing.

[Mil]

CJ,

The only way to have peace is to democratize the ME. How do you expect Israelis to have peace or rather a true relationship with the Arabs when they cannot achieve the same with each other?

The entire ME is arranged on the practices of status quos, armistices, and other political arrangements.

[chrisjohn316]

Originally posted by Mil
CJ,

The only way to have peace is to democratize the ME. How do you expect Israelis to have peace or rather a true relationship with the Arabs when they cannot achieve the same with each other?

The entire ME is arranged on the practices of status quos, armistices, and other political arrangements.

Same peace with Jew to Jew or Muslim to Muslim? Your sentence doesn't say.

As for democratic values, I am all for it and I am a supporter of George Bush.

As for "The entire ME is arranged on the practices of status quos, armistices, and other political arrangements." that isn't limited to the middle east.

[David_in_NYC]

Originally posted by chrisjohn316
"CJ, you clearly don't understand the first thing about Islam." That is your opinion.

If you think killing Muslims will bring peace then you are mistaken.

Also vilifying Islam won't help either. Muslims are people like you and I. I disagree with Islam but know that Muslims are people with different views.

The only acceptable outcome in my view is peace, not more killing.

You are hopelessly naive. I wonder, will you continue to be so up to the moment you hear your murderer cry, "Allah Akbar!"?

I could say that the only acceptable outcome would be for purple dinosaurs to float down from the sky and rule the earth in enlightened bliss in perpetuity. And that is precisely as realistic.

You can't possibly disagree with Islam, because it takes knowledge of something to disagree with it. What do you really know about Islam? I would love to hear it.

[David_in_NYC]

Some food for thought, CJ... here's a Pakistan bulletin board topic on whether they should recognize Israel. You tell me what the dominant theme is, especially among those who quote from the Qu'ran.

http://www.storyofpakistan.com/discf...=382&forumid=1

And Pakistan does not rank among the top 10 Islamic nations in hate for Israel.

It's funny, when I discuss the facts of Islam with Muslims, they do not dispute the facts of the matter. What makes you think you know more than them, that you can tell them that their religion does not demand that they conquer and enslave the entire world? Is it just "different views" that cause indifference to the routine deaths of hundreds during their religious rituals? Or is it barbarism?

[David_in_NYC]

Gotta love this stuff:

"As a muslim we cannot deny what Quran says about jews and it is fact that jews cannot be friends of muslims and are not trustable. "

one quotes the Qu'ran thusly:

"O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people who are unjust and aggressors. (5:51)"

I'm not making this up... these are real Muslims, typical ones, not fringe crazies, who say things like this:

"And, by the way, it is Yasser Arafat who is the man of peace, not Ariel Sharon. It was Arafat who persuaded
Palestinians to recognize Israel's right to exist, who persuaded them to accept a two-state solution, which
means they will settle for 22 percent of their own country. And it is Sharon who refuses to give them even
that. It is Sharon who rejected the "road map." It is Sharon who kicks sand in the face of little George Bush
any time he feels like it."

Again, I need to emphasize, and I really do encourage you to research this thoroughly yourself, that these are normal, average Muslims talking about things that are taken for granted in Islamic culture. The next quote comes from a Muslim in the UK:

"Because the jews control the world.. they are everywhere, from the drink that we drink to the shoes we wear i guarentee you there is a Jew behind it! As long as Jews have power across the western world they will continue to breed this difference of muslims as "terrorists" in all circumstances! The Israelis sit hand in hand with America, and George Bush and his men are the puppets constantly being controlled... he applies propaganda to the whole of the west just as these jews said and dun dun dun... there we have it, Muslims are labelled. They are out to get us, but we can't do anything."



There's nothing I have said that should come as a surprise to you. This is the same culture that straps bombs to children in order that they may murder Jews, that smuggles explosives in ambulances, treats women as property, and deliberately crashes jetliners into major cities. I cannot imagine that you are so insulated as to not be aware of these truths.

It is time to cast away your bleeding heart, as your enemies - our enemies - are skilled and experienced in using it as a weapon against you and our people.

The pretense that Islam is peaceful, when centuries of evidence all agree that the reverse is true, has cost too many lives, and I for one am not willing to sacrifice a single life more to maintain it, not an American, not an Israeli, not a Russian, not a Hindu, not a Serb, not a Sudanese - not one more life is acceptable in the service of this lie.

[chrisjohn316]

Originally posted by David_in_NYC
You are hopelessly naive. I wonder, will you continue to be so up to the moment you hear your murderer cry, "Allah Akbar!"?

I could say that the only acceptable outcome would be for purple dinosaurs to float down from the sky and rule the earth in enlightened bliss in perpetuity. And that is precisely as realistic.

You can't possibly disagree with Islam, because it takes knowledge of something to disagree with it. What do you really know about Islam? I would love to hear it.

If I am hopelessly naive, you are hopelessly a loser.

"I could say that the only acceptable outcome would be for purple dinosaurs to float down from the sky..." add the adjective idiot to loser too.

[chrisjohn316]

Originally posted by David_in_NYC
Some food for thought, CJ... here's a Pakistan bulletin board topic on whether they should recognize Israel. You tell me what the dominant theme is, especially among those who quote from the Qu'ran.

http://www.storyofpakistan.com/discf...=382&forumid=1

And Pakistan does not rank among the top 10 Islamic nations in hate for Israel.

It's funny, when I discuss the facts of Islam with Muslims, they do not dispute the facts of the matter. What makes you think you know more than them, that you can tell them that their religion does not demand that they conquer and enslave the entire world? Is it just "different views" that cause indifference to the routine deaths of hundreds during their religious rituals? Or is it barbarism?

Do you practise being an arrogant sod in front of the mirror or does that just come naturally to you?

"when I discuss the facts of Islam with Muslims" if your level of discussion is what you are showing here, then they must really have a lot of respect for your views, NOT.

[chrisjohn316]

David_in_NYC it is people like you, twisted and hate filled little creatures that keeps peace from Israel. Your mind set is no different to Yasser Arafat.

The only chance for Israel is peace and if you think otherwise you are a lost course.

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by chrisjohn316
David_in_NYC it is people like you, twisted and hate filled little creatures that keeps peace from Israel. Your mind set is no different to Yasser Arafat.

The only chance for Israel is peace and if you think otherwise you are a lost course.

If you've got something of David's to disprove, go ahead and do so.

You tried tossing the same virtual peace reality at us on this thread. Nothing you said there is based on anything but some fickle good faith in humanity. You basically dropped the argument when confronted and fell back on "We have different world perspectives".

It's nice that you have such a perky optimistic attitude. However, some of us have learned to be more pragmatic and down ro earth in order to deal with what actually happening.