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Thread: Sniper Muhammad sentenced to death

  1. #16
    minusthejihad
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    Originally posted by Oh Jerusalem
    surely, you don't compare the responsibilities of a 5 year old to those of a 17 year old?!
    If a five year old was guilty of the same crimes, meaning if it was even possible, I say "kill it, start over".

  2. #17
    Oh Jerusalem
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    Originally posted by minusthejihad
    If a five year old was guilty of the same crimes, meaning if it was even possible, I say "kill it, start over".
    Do you have any children?

  3. #18
    Ahava
    Guest
    Originally posted by Oh Jerusalem
    Try it, you'll like it!
    No, thank you.

  4. #19
    minusthejihad
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    Originally posted by Oh Jerusalem
    Do you have any children?
    Obviously not.

  5. #20
    David_in_NYC
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    Originally posted by minusthejihad

    If someone walked up to you in the street and started beating you because you were a Jew, what would you do?
    If someone started beating me for any reason, I would kill them if I had to, and without remorse, not only for my own self-defense but also for the defense of all other civilized people. After all, if a person would attack me, who does no harm to others, then who is safe from their depredations? If they did it because I am a Jew I would regard that no differently than if they did it because I am light-skinned, or because I wear glasses, or any other reason. The real problem is not that I am a Jew, but that the other person cannot behave in a civil manner. Why they don't behave in a civil manner is not material to me, that's a subject for forensic psychologists and not something I would concern myself with. Whether they succeed in doing harm to me or others is the issue that I find material.

  6. #21
    minusthejihad
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    Originally posted by David_in_NYC
    If someone started beating me for any reason, I would kill them if I had to, and without remorse, not only for my own self-defense but also for the defense of all other civilized people. After all, if a person would attack me, who does no harm to others, then who is safe from their depredations? If they did it because I am a Jew I would regard that no differently than if they did it because I am light-skinned, or because I wear glasses, or any other reason. The real problem is not that I am a Jew, but that the other person cannot behave in a civil manner. Why they don't behave in a civil manner is not material to me, that's a subject for forensic psychologists and not something I would concern myself with. Whether they succeed in doing harm to me or others is the issue that I find material.
    You would kill them even if they are 17?

  7. #22
    Oh Jerusalem
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    Originally posted by minusthejihad
    You would kill them even if they are 17?
    Killing someone who is currently endangering your life or well-being is not equivalent to killing someone who has already taken someone else's life and is now under lock and key.

    There's no symetry in your argument.

    And, yes, it's obvious you don't have children but I would still think you would not say such things about 5 year olds.

  8. #23
    minusthejihad
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    Kids are over-rated.

    Just look how they are used in propaganda. 10 adults can die and there's no big deal, but one kid bites the bullet and all hell breaks loose.

    Personally, I see a human's value by their contribution to society. For instance, if I was to choose who was to die between a 50 year old doctor who can save countless lives or a 5 year old child, I'd choose the kid to get it.

    On the other hand, if a 50 year old bum off the street were up against a child, I'd choose the bum to die, because that child has the potential to contribute more to society in the future.

    Other than that, I'd hardly consider a 17 year old a child, especially one who pulled the trigger and murdered 1 or more people. The 5 year old comment may be reaching, but my point is, evil is evil. Brainwashed or not. Sometimes, you have to do what is hard, but it is still right. Give Malvo and Muhammed death!

  9. #24
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    Originally posted by minusthejihad
    17, 5, 50.... I don't see a difference in evil, except age.

    Just a question David?

    If someone walked up to you in the street and started beating you because you were a Jew, what would you do?

    If he were 5 I'd grab the scruff of his neck and drag him back to his house and dump him in his mommas lap. If he was 15 I'd beat his ass, and drag him back to his house and dump him in his momma's lap. If he were older I'd just beat his ass.

    That's a pretty close approximation of what civilized societies actually do.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    Civilized countries do not execute children. Period. They shouldn't execute anyone, practically anytime except under the most extraordinary circumstances. You want barbarity? Go to Jeddah.

  11. #26
    andak01
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    Originally posted by Mediocrates
    You want barbarity? Go to Jeddah.
    Really? How does their per capita annual execution record stack up against Bush's as governor of Texas?

  12. #27
    Binyamin
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    Anyone who commits premeditated murder should be killed.

    I believe that the Supreme Court ruled a while ago that a 16 year old could be killed, so we would not be setting new standards by killing Malvo.

    Jewish courts gave the death penalty starting at 13.

  13. #28
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    Originally posted by andak01
    Really? How does their per capita annual execution record stack up against Bush's as governor of Texas?

    I never said I agreed with what goes on here. I happen to live where they are eagerly putting to death more people than since 1949. I can't say that I am proud of that. I can't see how anyone is. Point is though, if you want to chop off hands and the like, if you really want a 'law-n-order' world then go to some place like the KSA (or Texas or Florida if you prefer).

  14. #29
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Binyamin
    Anyone who commits premeditated murder should be killed.

    I believe that the Supreme Court ruled a while ago that a 16 year old could be killed, so we would not be setting new standards by killing Malvo.

    Jewish courts gave the death penalty starting at 13.

    Go read your Jewish law, scripture and history. Black letter law is one thing, how it is employed is quite another. It also says, that if a community manages to execute more than a tiny number of people, like 1 in 7 seven years then there is something profoundly broken and the entire practice must be suspended. Jewish courts allowed for the possibility of capital crimes for anyone who is B'nai Mitzvah, that is, a fully functioning member of the community which for their purposes was at least 13 or I suppose 12 for girls. It also stipulates extremely rigorous criteria for establishing guilt such as two witnesses of impeccable character and veracity who understood that falsely accusing someone else might cause they themselves to be prosecuted for a capital crime. The Mishpatim is very clear on that as it is on the concept of equity generally. "Ayin tachat ayin" means that the punishment must fit the crime and one does not hand out punishment in disproportion to the crime committed. It is the cornerstone of judicial equity and fairness and insures that a failsafe mechanism exists. Now did Jews ever execute anyone. I'm sure they did. Adolf Eichmann for example; and he truly deserved it. But it's pretty rare in both ancient and modern law.

    See I take the approach that people are basically bloodthirsty and that civilization can be fairly thin and fragile at times. One does not need to open that floodgate, the one where the community feels nothing at all upon executing someone unless that community is strong enough to remember to smell the stench of the concentration camps next door. Nobody gets a free pass from that. No one.

  15. #30
    andak01
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    I've said that if you put a lot of emphasis on getting reliable witnesses to the crime, the punishment shrinks almost to nil. I kind of think that was the point in the first place. I even suspect that such issues as homosexuality and adultry were not the heart of what Sharia was going after. Rather it was a public display of immorality that was considered,...well, in a theocracy it was akin to treason, striking at the very basis of government. The only way of being adulterous or homosexual in front of four witnesses was through flagrant disregard of every type of decorum. But what went on behind closed doors was nobody's business.

    Modern Sharia states such as Iran has placed all the emphasis on the punishment and away from witnesses. I have yet to hear of a case where the required witnesses were obtained.

    Anyway, I have a hard time with any system that punishes many many people. That's because there must always be a certain percentage of wrongly punished ones. Maybe it's me, but I would prefer to risk some guilty people walking free than to risk punishing the innocent.

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