History and Rights in the conflict

[watcher]

Let’s look at the contrasts and contributions of the societies that live on the same tiny piece of land called Israel...

Let’s look at Israel first since they were there first...

Israel, or the People of the Book in the Quran...
The fact Israel is so unlike the surrounding neighbors does not mean Israel is foreign but Israel chooses not to follow the ways of the others but observe Laws which the morally corrupt cities such as sodom and gomorrah chose to ignore to their own destruction. The comparison of Israel to a western nation is for the fact the foundation of the western judicial system pretty much the entire structure of the western society as a whole is based much upon the structure of the standard of Israel. If that line of thought is actually considered, then Israel can truly be called the first democracy.

All historical evidence cannot be denied that in fact Israel does exist, also Israel was in the Land Israel pretty much occupies today! If one does not want to rely upon biblical evidence. Just look through all the truthful books in the world in any language they do not deny the existence of Israel. “palestine” on the other hand was simply created when most of the people of Israel was removed from the land of Israel and the surrounding nations jumped at the chance to acquire this land for themselves so much so that the accepted the name “palestine” without any hesitation... thus the reason for such hatred when Israel returned and the extreme desire to remove Israel from the Land once again.

Now for “palestine” or people of surrounding countries that settled in Israel for around 1900 years.
If any claim to be christian they were never brought up once in the New Testament since the name was either never thought up at the time, or just invented when bible was finished and considered just a new name that will be quickly removed when Israel returns.

If christianity is not claimed and the Bible is rejected opting for the Quran then the Quran should also be considered frivolous since many of the same key figures were mentioned throughout the Bible especially Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael.

If both are disclaimed so just history and culture is only accepted as proof then historical evidence completely backs up the presence of Israel, individual culture also completely backs up Israel. The only individual attributes of “palestine” is their refugee camps which they could’ve created a society of peaceful hardworking individuals willing to live side by side with Israel and in fact continue to also work inside Israel in peace with all the support funds they've received...

Instead they squandered the monies collected and used much of it to purchase as much destructive items to use against Israel over and above keeping the refugee camps as they are or poorer in Israel as breeding grounds to further incite hatred against Israel to have the people ripe to use such devices against Israel to try to achieve their ultimate goal of eliminating Israel altogether.

The other attribute is the history of terrorism itself which they employed the use of hijacking, suicide bombers, car bombs, indiscriminate sniper attacks including purposely murdering a baby, use of rescue vehicles for bombing attacks... pretty much any means they can imagine for use of terrorism against Israel who brought a most comprehensive peace treaty as a measure to curtail such violence only to have a non-negotiating partner simply walk away only to command and incite the resumption of such violence.

All efforts towards the goal of peace were completely fruitless as shown by the continuous attacks... to turn back and try to negotiate always led to a systematic murder of Israel by all those anti-Israel... so it’s a decision whether to have a continuation of Israel or elimination of Israel... a decision to trade Land and lives of Israel to people who does not approve of any existence of Israel in their eyes and will continue to murder with such apparent extreme hatred to kill themselves to murder and maim Israel in order to steal the land and kill the people of the land.

Apparently there is no other way with the actions against Israel since the day Israel officially returned to the land... than to remove these people so-called “palestinians” out of Israel, sending them back to where they came from... to their families in the surrounding nations... they’ve long overstayed their welcome with all their violent ways.

[christian]

Originally posted by watcher
Let’s look at the contrasts and contributions of the societies that live on the same tiny piece of land called Israel...

Let’s look at Israel first since they were there first...

Israel, or the People of the Book in the Quran...
The fact Israel is so unlike the surrounding neighbors does not mean Israel is foreign but Israel chooses not to follow the ways of the others but observe Laws which the morally corrupt cities such as sodom and gomorrah chose to ignore to their own destruction. The comparison of Israel to a western nation is for the fact the foundation of the western judicial system pretty much the entire structure of the western society as a whole is based much upon the structure of the standard of Israel. If that line of thought is actually considered, then Israel can truly be called the first democracy.

All historical evidence cannot be denied that in fact Israel does exist, also Israel was in the Land Israel pretty much occupies today! If one does not want to rely upon biblical evidence. Just look through all the truthful books in the world in any language they do not deny the existence of Israel. “palestine” on the other hand was simply created when most of the people of Israel was removed from the land of Israel and the surrounding nations jumped at the chance to acquire this land for themselves so much so that the accepted the name “palestine” without any hesitation... thus the reason for such hatred when Israel returned and the extreme desire to remove Israel from the Land once again.

Now for “palestine” or people of surrounding countries that settled in Israel for around 1900 years.
If any claim to be christian they were never brought up once in the New Testament since the name was either never thought up at the time, or just invented when bible was finished and considered just a new name that will be quickly removed when Israel returns.

If christianity is not claimed and the Bible is rejected opting for the Quran then the Quran should also be considered frivolous since many of the same key figures were mentioned throughout the Bible especially Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael.

If both are disclaimed so just history and culture is only accepted as proof then historical evidence completely backs up the presence of Israel, individual culture also completely backs up Israel. The only individual attributes of “palestine” is their refugee camps which they could’ve created a society of peaceful hardworking individuals willing to live side by side with Israel and in fact continue to also work inside Israel in peace with all the support funds they've received...

Instead they squandered the monies collected and used much of it to purchase as much destructive items to use against Israel over and above keeping the refugee camps as they are or poorer in Israel as breeding grounds to further incite hatred against Israel to have the people ripe to use such devices against Israel to try to achieve their ultimate goal of eliminating Israel altogether.

The other attribute is the history of terrorism itself which they employed the use of hijacking, suicide bombers, car bombs, indiscriminate sniper attacks including purposely murdering a baby, use of rescue vehicles for bombing attacks... pretty much any means they can imagine for use of terrorism against Israel who brought a most comprehensive peace treaty as a measure to curtail such violence only to have a non-negotiating partner simply walk away only to command and incite the resumption of such violence.

All efforts towards the goal of peace were completely fruitless as shown by the continuous attacks... to turn back and try to negotiate always led to a systematic murder of Israel by all those anti-Israel... so it’s a decision whether to have a continuation of Israel or elimination of Israel... a decision to trade Land and lives of Israel to people who does not approve of any existence of Israel in their eyes and will continue to murder with such apparent extreme hatred to kill themselves to murder and maim Israel in order to steal the land and kill the people of the land.

Apparently there is no other way with the actions against Israel since the day Israel officially returned to the land... than to remove these people so-called “palestinians” out of Israel, sending them back to where they came from... to their families in the surrounding nations... they’ve long overstayed their welcome with all their violent ways.

BRAVO!

[watcher]

So-called “palestinians” had plenty of time during the time of peace when they worked side by side with Israel to better their lives with all the funds they’ve recieved... what happened? Refugee camps continued to exist with people from man to child behaving like sub-human mindless murderers full of lawless hatred. If funds were delivered today to attempt to rebuild and better their lives where will it really go? Hmmm, where do they get all their equipment of destruction against Israel, and where did they get the money? Why do they still live in squalor??

The only win-win situation is to remove the “palestinians” from Israel. Murders will continue... hate will continue... surrounding countries will still want to war... nothing really new would happen just it’s easier to minimize the bleeding from within if the “palestinians” were removed from Israel, and have the borders reinforced. Murderers will have less power since Israel will refuse to give them such power to use against Israel. They’ve occupied the Land of Israel far too long with their hateful murderous ways.

[Shuki]

Originally posted by watcher
So-called “palestinians” had plenty of time during the time of peace when they worked side by side with Israel to better their lives with all the funds they’ve recieved... what happened? Refugee camps continued to exist with people from man to child behaving like sub-human mindless murderers full of lawless hatred. If funds were delivered today to attempt to rebuild and better their lives where will it really go? Hmmm, where do they get all their equipment of destruction against Israel, and where did they get the money? Why do they still live in squalor??

Agreed.

The only win-win situation is to remove the “palestinians” from Israel. Murders will continue... hate will continue... surrounding countries will still want to war... nothing really new would happen just it’s easier to minimize the bleeding from within if the “palestinians” were removed from Israel, and have the borders reinforced. Murderers will have less power since Israel will refuse to give them such power to use against Israel. They’ve occupied the Land of Israel far too long with their hateful murderous ways.

Sorry, can't do that. For any number of reasons this would be a huge mistake. Ethically, morally and otherwise I cannot condone such an action. Judaically it would be a problem too, but even if it wasn't we have to deal with the cards we are given.

For better or for worse the Palestinians have a claim to some of our land. I do not believe that they have a legitimate claim to Jerusalem, I do not believe that they are really owed a state. But I do believe that it will happen and that it is necessary for the future.

The best thing that we can do is try and find a peaceful way to live together- even if it means a temporary separation. A mass "bus ticket" out of Israel would cause more problems than it would solve.

[watcher]

Originally posted by Shuki


Sorry, can't do that. For any number of reasons this would be a huge mistake. Ethically, morally and otherwise I cannot condone such an action. Judaically it would be a problem too, but even if it wasn't we have to deal with the cards we are given.

True we have to deal with the cards we're given but eventually "palestinians" will disappear just as they have appeared from imagination of the romans to the maps of the world at the time, and Israel will ultimately be the only one left standing Forever as the hateful fall.

Originally posted by Shuki
For better or for worse the Palestinians have a claim to some of our land. I do not believe that they have a legitimate claim to Jerusalem, I do not believe that they are really owed a state. But I do believe that it will happen and that it is necessary for the future.

"palestinians" have no standing claim by the fact they came from the surrounding lands to live in the Land still occupied by Israel even though the land was renamed "palestine" against the will of the occupants Israel who by then became a minority when the majority was dispersed from Israel by the romans.

Originally posted by Shuki
The best thing that we can do is try and find a peaceful way to live together- even if it means a temporary separation. A mass "bus ticket" out of Israel would cause more problems than it would solve.

It's been a continuous attempt for peace to no avail... hate worsened, murders continued... the only reason murder did not worsened recenty is because the incursions into "palestinian" occupied areas of Israel eliminated many of the lawless culprits.

[Shuki]

Originally posted by watcher


It's been a continuous attempt for peace to no avail... hate worsened, murders continued... the only reason murder did not worsened recenty is because the incursions into "palestinian" occupied areas of Israel eliminated many of the lawless culprits. [/B]

I don't disagree with most of what you have said. I do disagree with rounding up Palestinians and sticking them on a bus. It is wrong, period end of story.

We need to push ahead, but not at the expense of losing ourselves and our humanity.

[watcher]

Originally posted by Shuki


...We need to push ahead, but not at the expense of losing ourselves and our humanity.

True but it's not exactly a one way street...

They must truly clean up their act if they want to continue to live within Israel... Something we haven't seen from them. If they're shipped back to their homeland to their own families by their uncontrolled actions... it's upon their own heads that it happened. It can never be considered a cruel act to remove them from Israel... What can be considered cruel acts is their actions against Israel.

Must the lawless be given a gift of appreciation?
How much loss must Israel face at the inhumanity of "palestine"?
For a little while longer we will tolerate their nonsense... if there is no definate positive change they must finally leave Israel.

[Shuki]

Originally posted by watcher


True but it's not exactly a one way street...

They must truly clean up their act if they want to continue to live within Israel... Something we haven't seen from them. If they're shipped back to their homeland to their own families by their uncontrolled actions... it's upon their own heads that it happened. It can never be considered a cruel act to remove them from Israel... What can be considered cruel acts is their actions against Israel.

Must the lawless be given a gift of appreciation?
How much loss must Israel face at the inhumanity of "palestine"?
For a little while longer we will tolerate their nonsense... if there is no definate positive change they must finally leave Israel.

You and I are not too far off in our views. The Palestinians must uphold their end. I feel badly for many as they have been betrayed by their leadership. Arafat is an evil plague upon all of us, Palestinians included. If he was truly altruistic this war would not be upon us. He is a member of Amalek.

I do not believe that to be true of all Palestinians. Change will come for us all, but we cannot force it to come faster than it will come.

[watcher]

Originally posted by Shuki

...I do not believe that to be true of all Palestinians. Change will come for us all, but we cannot force it to come faster than it will come.

Yes.
We can though, rest in the fact that Israel will never pass as the changes occur... in the end the lawless will crush themselves against just... in the end all promises will be kept true... in the end Israel will stand Forever.

[watcher]

Peace is only desired!

It is a sobering thought about the needless suffering these "palestinians" and those like them put themselves through by means of hatred and destructive ways not necessarily by all of them but causing suffering among themselves and recruiting more people with mistaken hatred against those who only try to defend against the terrorism thus effectively creating a vicious cycle of violence... which is why I'll reiterate my view;

Although these terrorists hate us, plot to murder us, and try to recruit others to do the same through their hatred... when they are consumed by their hatred, when they fall by their own plots... It’s sheer joy to find peace once again but never any joy at the demise of those hateful.
On the contrary since it means so many less people that can be turned from their ways of hatred, so many who died a meaningless death, it’s never a desire to lose even one person. It’s pitiful that people fall to such a level... May none in Israel ever fall to their level. It’s easy to become hateful witnessing such death and destruction of the innocent... but to fall to their level would be a much greater death of the innocent.

Yes Israel will never fall since Israel is never as the rest of the world... That’s why there’s a separate standard for Israel apart from the rest of the world. Also why the world hates Israel. Although some of Israel may conform to the rest of the world the rest of Israel chooses to remain true to Israel in the standard of Truth, Justice, and Love. It is for the fact these people exist in the world is why Israel always stood, still stands, and will Forever stand when Peace finally comes, when the corrupt will fall, and when Love rules the world once more...

[lcsusa]

I am always in arguments about the legitimacy of Israel on "Palestinian" land. I argue that the land was occupied by Jews as far back as by Arabs and have as much right to it as they. However, I lack the historical erudition to back by argument up. Do you know of/can recommend relevant texts on the subject? Thank you.

[CoinToss]

The answer holds in one sentence:

2 BANKs = 2 PEOPLEs

Arab on one, Jews on the second.
Because every people has the right to a decent country.

That's the only way to peace.
Arabs cant' have both side.