Sharon is a War Criminal!

takeo · 04-25-2002, 02:54 PM

?????????
tell me???????

takeo · 04-25-2002, 03:11 PM

"Ah yes, and here is the rub. Blackmail and extortion are not a means to a peaceful solution. If the Palestinians truly want what they claim, let them establish a time and a date to share a mutual cease fire with Israel, let them lay down their weapons in good faith, let them come to the table and negotiate, and let them keep their word - for once. Threatening a superior army with a fight to the death is not the picture of sanity."

it is not blackmail, it is a warning. If you call it blackmail, OK, but than of course the Ramallah-siege can also be called blackmail.
The Palestinians don't want anything else than this, it are the israeli who refuse to negotiate with Arafat, even about a cease-fire.(because a cease-fire would mean BOTH sides to stop the violence and Sharon is not ready yet...)

"At what point did Israel call for the "unconditional surrender" of the Palestinians?
Where did you get the idea that the whole world is in support of the Palestinians?
Have you been smoking again? "

I have never inhaled...
you, (or someone else here on this tread ) said that israel should force the Palestinians to unconditional surrender
Not the whole world but pretty much the whole world except the US and maybe Canada or Australia...

"I know, I know, each side justifies its continued violence by the actions of the other, but someone has to be the one to stand up and stop the cycle. "

That's true, but as israel is the strongest and most disciplined of the two, Israel should be the smartest...

"Unfortunately, your understanding of the Japanese is lacking. The peoples of the Far East have proven that they will fight at great expense to their own people. The Japanese will ever be remembered for their willingness to used suicide bombers (though they always focused on military targets.) Had it not been for the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Japanese might never have surrendered. Are you suggesting by your example of the Japanese that it will take just such an act of devastation to bring the Palestinians to peace? "

Yes, my Japanese is very poor, but i know South-east Asia. I know japanese fought untill death to save their empire, but they knew after a while that it was useless and they surrendered.
Yet no atomic bomb would have stopped the Japanese from challenging the occupation force if it would have been the goal to make Japan an American colony.

takeo · 04-25-2002, 03:42 PM

You don't know nothing about Russia, Tatars are like Russians, they don't hate Russians, they could have used Tchetchens for that goal... by the way there was never any need to defend the Kremlin against unarmed civilians. Maybe you are referring to the old tsarist time before Peter the Great? Ivan IV used tatars as his guards and he also married a Tatar princess.

Northlander · 04-25-2002, 11:15 PM

The forum is turning in to a Scandinavian site.

Not my intention or fault. It seems like anyone critisising Israel has to defend himself. I think it is relevant to explain to you that not everyone supporting the palestinian cause are extremist muslims. Thats the only reason I even mentioned my nationality.
Also YOU implied that sweden was full of islamistic propaganda. Then I felt obligated to point out the fact that media in sweden is largely owned by jews. The single most influential family in swedish industy the wallenbergs are jewish. If you are that interested I could find out exactly all their interests and companies but that would be some work. They and also the bonnier family that started out with publishing owns most of the swedish news channels today. I dont say that is a problem for anyone but I would think that it at least makes it harder for anti-semistic propaganda to flurish. I read your threads about the french jews and there lack of support for jewish interests. And Takeos views that they were very much assimilated in french society and therefor felt more french than anything. Without claiming to be anything near an expert on swedish jews I would guess the situation here is quite the same. I dont think their heritage makes much of an impact in swedish industry and media
but the jewish community here are more influential than the arab in any case. So please stop this tiredsome accusations that all countrys critical of israel are islamic and pro-arabic.

In any event Islamic Fundamentalism is alive and well in Scandinavia even if you try to minimize it. Isn?t it a fact that there?s growing anti Islam sentiment in Sweden and it?s been a major problem for years?

This is the weak link in your argumentation.
Yes I agree that there might be a very small circle of Islamic Fundamentalists in sweden. They have never used any violence here. They are no eminent threat to swedish OR european society. On the other hand the anti-islam feelings as you say are a problem. Some violence against innocent muslims on the streets and also some burning of muslim reastaurants. But we still dont have a problem with our muslim community itself, nit from their side. The problem is with a few nazis that believes in the same things you guys do: The threat of Islam etc. How can it be that IF sweden has this problem with islamistic propaganda that some people believes in the danger of islam? How can it be that IF the muslims are the danger their restaurants get burned down,not jewish or anyones else?
As you see its the anti-islamistic propaganda that are the problem not the way around.

You are doing a smart and effective move by lifting the issue from israel and palestine itself and making it an issue about Islam against the whole western world. Same as the serbs did in bosnia. Some people fall for it and they will always support israel no matter what. But I dont. I can support palestinians and muslimbosnians at the same time a can condemn the Talibans and the regime in Iran. Its no problem. Things are not black and white. Its NOT about religion.

JustPat · 04-26-2002, 05:45 AM

Originally posted by Northlander
Its NOT about religion.

Ah, but it is. The Islamic extremeists have made that the key issue. When UBL declares, "Now we will see whose god is bigger," he has made the central issue religion. May he enjoy the fate of the prophets of Baal who did so with Elijah.

For those whose culture and lifestyle is not centered around a G-d who cares personally, who is interested in the affairs of daily living, religion is nothing more than philosophy that can easily be set aside for the sake of discussion. For those who have a life cetered around their relationship with their G-d, His will and desire, as they understand it, is paramount and drives them to act in a way that will be pleasing to Him.

The passion of the Islamic Fundamentalist, the uncompromising stand of the Orthodox Jew, and the zeal of the "born-again" Christian all are rooted in their desire to be found pleasing to G-d. You will not sway them with political rhetoric or deter them with governmental regulations. They stand out of conviction and will die for what they believe. Men like Arafat have played upon that in the Muslim community in order to achieve political goals. They are the worst kind of deceiver. Claiming to be G-d's agent, they stir the people who buy into their agenda by telling them how pleased G-d will be with their sacrifice. Unfortunately, in the Muslim history, their whole religion is based on Mohammed's teachings that promote just such behavior.