Nearly 360 attacks against Jews in France

[L@mplighterM]

There's been nearly 360 attacks against Jews in France this April.

This works out to about 7,700 if it continues for a year. As I recall there is someone on this board that has an answer to all of this. Tell the Muslims that you support their cause and they?ll leave you alone and you can live peacefully.

Of course the leadership of France doesn?t see this as a problem. France has a population of about 60,000,000 if this type of antisocial behavior existed worldwide there would be 770,000 incidents of anti Semitic behavior yearly based on a population of 6 billion.

I?m I missing something? Seems to me that this is a major problem in the making.
link to story at JPost:

http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/0...ews.47146.html

[cerulean]

I got this from an email list.

================
HAVEN'T' WE LEARNED ANYTHING FROM THE HOLOCAUST?

FRANCE, 1942
• Synagogues and Schools Fire-Bombed
• Jews attacked on the streets
• Torah scrolls desecrated
• Jews face discrimination
• Chants of "Heil Hitler" and "Death to Jews" heard on the streets
• Government Officials express Anti-Semitism
• French Government is puppet of Nazi Regime

FRANCE, 2002
• Synagogues and Schools Fire-Bombed
• Jews attacked on the streets
• Torah scrolls desecrated
• Mme Cecile Muselet, owner of the French hotel "Le Bastide de la Pave" in Provence refuses to allow Israeli couple to stay at the hotel because of their ethnic origin
• Chants of "Vive Bin Laden" and "Death to Jews" heard on the streets
• French Ambassador Daniel Bernard and close confidant of President Chiraq curses Jews
• French Government is a puppet of Arab leaders

[takeo]

Well, the Jerusalem Post, always a reliable and neutral source of information, seems to be better informed than a Jew living in France...(by the way in an Arab neighbourhood)

have we learned anything from WWII?

yes: Jews in france have special laws to protect them and even the slightest form of anti-semitism will get you in the court-room. (the same for racist remarks or deeds against Arabs, this however is only in France, not in Israel) , Jews are very well integrated in the French society and discrimination against Jews is almost non-existant, unfortunately some frustrated arabs have attacked jewish communities but the response of the police was always quick and untill now nobody has been hurt and most of the yellers and vandals have to stand in court. Jewish institutions do have police-protection as in england as well.

no: here on this board we can learn daily that one people has more rights than another people, and that the freedom and right of an own state of one people can happen by oppressing another people.
Also some states still think they have the right to ignore international laws and extend their territory with parts of other countries if they thinks its necessary.
civilian people still gets intentionally targetted, by both sides, as in WWII.
People are still discriminated and can't return to their homes because they belong to the "wrong" race.

Should i go on or is it too depressing?

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by takeo
Well, the Jerusalem Post, always a reliable and neutral source of information, seems to be better informed than a Jew living in France...(by the way in an Arab neighbourhood)

Well, well, well, you don't tell us anything to the contrary, do you? BTW, had you even bothered looking, you would see that the JP is simply conveying an Associated Press news item.

Now what, wise guy?

have we learned anything from WWII?

(the same for racist remarks or deeds against Arabs, this however is only in France, not in Israel)

Not true. Applies equally in Israel, irregardless of race, creed or color. The most classic case was the outlawing of Meir Kahane's Kach party from the Knesset years ago and the categorization of the party as illegal jsut for those reasons.

Jews are very well integrated in the French society and discrimination against Jews is almost non-existant, unfortunately some frustrated arabs have attacked jewish communities but the response of the police was always quick and untill now nobody has been hurt and most of the yellers and vandals have to stand in court. Jewish institutions do have police-protection as in england as well.

I'lllet the reader'sintelligence here decide how good or serious a job the French authorities are doing and how many perpetrators have "stood in court":

http://www.adl.org/international/lfe/lfe_01_2002.asp
http://www.adl.org/presrele/asint_13/4041_13.asp
http://www.adl.org/presrele/asint_13/4036_13.asp

Try impressing us with serious statistics from France, like how many anti-semtic attacks there have been over the last two years, how many assailants were brought to court, etc.

no: here on this board we can learn daily that one people has more rights than another people, and that the freedom and right of an own state of one people can happen by oppressing another people.

No, here on this board you can hear how one people, the Palestinians have blown every chance themselves to develop their own country, economy and success by cheering theie terrorist leaders as they broke every clause in mutual agreements since day one and have used terror as their negotiating tool.

[L@mplighterM]

As I told you before Mr.takeo if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck it is in fact a duck. You can’t fool me sir.

Further you seem to justify these incidents by:

People are still discriminated and can't return to their homes because they belong to the "wrong" race.

I don’t really differentiate between you and the rest of the Arab world when it comes to excusing terrorism. To sum it up your argument and justification for terrorist acts all boils down to a land issues.

Perhaps you see yourself as a great commie at least you seem to be proud of that labeling. Did you know that commies are supposed to be Feminists? On the other thread you wrote the following.

Israel has to hire Russian prostitutes to attrackt some tourism at least, sad for a country that was once the number one in the Middle Eastern tourism-industry.

Here you refer to the Russian Beauty Contestants as prostitutes. That doesn’t sound like someone that’s a commie would post perhaps you have another reason to post something like this?

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by takeo
Well, the Jerusalem Post, always a reliable and neutral source of information, seems to be better informed than a Jew living in France...(by the way in an Arab neighbourhood)

So are you saying that all the Jews who are complaining of anti-Semitic attacks are lying? Every news organization in the world is lying about French anti-Semititsm? Were the synagogues not burnt down throughout France? Were the French police stationed outside the Jewish neighborhoods not attacked by Musilms? Were Jews not attacked in the street of France?

Even French president Abu Chirac had to make a fake little speech this week to try to excuse the ongoing events in the Arab colony of France, because he fears that soon enough, the Jews of the world, starting in the US, will begin to put economic sanctions on anti-Semitic France.

And, yes, I would take the word of the Jerusalem Post which interviews honest Jews in France over the propaganda of self-hating Jews in France who hope that if they support terrorism enough, then they will be somehow protected from French Arab violence aganst the Jewish community.

[takeo]

"Well, well, well, you don't tell us anything to the contrary, do you? BTW, had you even bothered looking, you would see that the JP is simply conveying an Associated Press news item. "

maybe so, but the fact remains that the JP is a newspaper that reflects the opinion of the most right-wing part of the israeli society and the zionist ideology. It has the same neutrality concerning reporting the middle-eastern conflict as the pravda during the cold war.

"And, yes, I would take the word of the Jerusalem Post which interviews honest Jews in France over the propaganda of self-hating Jews in France who hope that if they support terrorism enough, then they will be somehow protected from French Arab violence aganst the Jewish community. "

I know that you call all the peace-movement in Israel and all the left-wing and every Jew not 100% behind the oppression of the Palestinian people a "self-hating Jew" so I am honoured with this title.


"Not true. Applies equally in Israel, irregardless of race, creed or color. The most classic case was the outlawing of Meir Kahane's Kach party from the Knesset years ago and the categorization of the party as illegal jsut for those reasons. "

OK, I believe you, in theory this could be true, in theory, but I have seen in Israel daily discrimination and heard of violent mobbing, not only against palestinians from the occupied territories but as well against israeli citizens who are not jewish, unpunished...




"I'lllet the reader'sintelligence here decide how good or serious a job the French authorities are doing and how many perpetrators have "stood in court":
Try impressing us with serious statistics from France, like how many anti-semtic attacks there have been over the last two years, how many assailants were brought to court, etc. "

the links you presented didn't work.

"LE MONDE | 03.04.02 | 15h49
Un nouvel attentat a visé une synagogue àMarseille, sans faire de dégâts
Protestation commune des juifs et des musulmans.



voir séquence
Société





Marseille de notre correspondant régional
Un nouvel acte visant un lieu de culte juif a été commis àMarseille, dans la soirée de mardi 2 avril. Vers 21 h 20, deux individus ont lancé un cocktail Molotov en direction de deux policiers en faction devant une synagogue du quartier du Merlan (14e arrondissement), au nord de la ville. L'engin incendiaire, qui est tombé àquelques mètres des fonctionnaires, n'a pas fait de dégâts. Les deux agresseurs se sont enfuis en courant sans être rattrapés.

Parallèlement, l'enquête destinée àdéterminer les causes de l'incendie de la synagogue Or Aviv, entièrement détruite par le feu dans la nuit du dimanche 31 mars, se poursuivait. Elle sera "compliquée", selon le procureur de Marseille, Jacques Baume, car le feu a tout emporté. Mardi, la police scientifique fouillait toujours les décombres du préfabriqué, avec l'aide des services techniques de la ville qu'a proposés le maire au procureur. Pour le moment, les moyens de la mise àfeu restent inconnus des enquêteurs du SRPJ.

AMITIÉ JUDÉO-ARABE

Au lendemain de l'incendie de la synagogue, les représentants de toutes les religions de la ville, juifs, musulmans, catholiques, protestants, orthodoxes et bouddhistes, regroupés dans l'association Marseille Espérance, ont publié une déclaration commune, comme àchaque fois qu'un vent d'intolérance souffle sur la cité (Le Monde du 25 décembre 2001). "Prendre prétexte du grave conflit qui oppose Israéliens et Palestiniens ne saurait justifier un geste qui touche au cœur notre cité marseillaise tout entière, sans discriminations", proclame ce texte, lu par le pasteur de Bourqueney àl'hôtel de ville, en présence du maire (DL), Jean-Claude Gaudin. Il poursuit en affirmant que "les criminels ont attaqué toute la République française (...) en stigmatisant l'une des communautés qui fait partie de la France". Appelant au sang-froid, il dit enfin "refuser que cet acte antisémite soit le début d'une série (...) tout autant que la communauté musulmane dans son ensemble soit désignée comme présumée coupable".

Quelques minutes plus tard, le chef du Consistoire israélite, Zvi Amar, et le mufti de Marseille, Sobeih Bencheikh, se donnaient une accolade dans la salle des délibérations. Bras dessus bras dessous, souriant aux photographes et cameramen, ils louaient l'amitié judéo-arabe et soutenaient que "la France n'est pas un pays antisémite".

D'autre part, les trois mineurs qui avaient été interpellés dimanche après-midi, après avoir brisé les vitres de la bibliothèque de leur collège André-Malraux, dans le 13e arrondissement, et écrit des graffitis antisémites, ont été déférés, mardi, par le parquet, devant le juge des mineurs, qui les a mis en examen et a demandé des mesures de réparation. Il semble que les trois garçons aient eu l'intention de mettre le feu àla bibliothèque avec du papier journal. Parmi la quinzaine d'inscriptions, souvent obscènes, qu'ils avaient tracées sur les murs, deux avaient un caractère antisémite. Le parquet a donc décidé, de manière symbolique, d'ajouter aux charges de "dégradations multiples de matériel public" celle de "provocation àla haine raciale par des inscriptions àcaractère raciste".

Michel Samson


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Les parquets appelés àla "vigilance"


La ministre de la justice, Marylise Lebranchu, a envoyé, mardi 2 avril, une "dépêche" aux parquets généraux pour préciser les "réponses judiciaires qui seront apportées aux actes de violence" antisémites. Le courrier de la garde des sceaux demande aux procureurs d'être "particulièrement vigilants" sur ce dossier et de "l'en tenir strictement informée". Ils doivent "veiller àce que les auteurs soient poursuivis aux moyens des procédures les plus rapides", assurer "une bonne information des victimes sur les suites judiciaires" et rencontrer "régulièrement les associations antiracistes ainsi que les mouvements et institutions juives représentatives".


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jean-Pierre Chevènement, en déplacement àStrasbourg (Bas-Rhin), mardi 2 avril, a qualifié "le fond de l'air" de "raciste, ethniciste et communautariste". Le député de Belfort, qui tenait un meeting àSchiltigheim, dans la banlieue de Strasbourg, a modifié son programme pour rencontrer le président du Consistoire israélite de France, Jean Kahn, et assister àl'office àla grande synagogue. M. Chevènement a qualifié les actes antisémites récents de " hautement condamnables". Il a estimé que "c'est un mauvais service rendu àla cause palestinienne que d'incendier les synagogues sur le territoire national".

• ARTICLE PARU DANS L'EDITION DU 04.04.02

I couldn't find links in english so here a french article in Le Monde, where is stated that, only in the city of marseille, were most violence against Jewish institutions happened and 80% of the perpetraters (all of them young Arabs, the suburbs of Marseille are heavily populated by young, jobless Algerians) have been caught and will be brought for the judge .
it is stated that the whole city of Marseille, including the mayor and the islamic and jewish representative bodies have combined an action to prevend such crimes in the future.
I didn't find it on the net but i know in Paris and Lyon, two other cities where anti-semitic acts happened, similar actions have been organised.
it also says that the minister of justice has send a letter to all the courts to ask them to inform the victims of anti-semitic acts over the follow-up of the perpetraters and to give priority to this crimes. (mostly vandalism of Jewish buildings, in some very rare cases stones has been trown at orthodox Jewish people, without consequences luckily)
Another very left-wing minister has met with the representative of the frensh jewish community to discuss how such actions could be best prevented in the future.
He also said that the people doing such acts are not supporting the palestinian cause but harming it by their criminal and irresponsible acts to harm innocent people.

[L@mplighterM]

He also said that the people doing such acts are not supporting the palestinian cause but harming it by their criminal and irresponsible acts to harm innocent people.

Talk is cheap and not only that the attacks are on the increase throughout EU. So let me ask if someone tells you that incidents of this nature are not helping the Palestinian cause whose cause is it helping? The mere fact that attacks like that does occur indicates that Arabs are engaging in anti social behavior.

These incidents are occurring in a state where fine and punishments seemingly have no deterrence. It’s not difficult to imagine that attacks of this nature would be more severe and frequent in a setting where the perpetrators are rewarded.

[takeo]

"No, here on this board you can hear how one people, the Palestinians have blown every chance themselves to develop their own country, economy and success by cheering theie terrorist leaders as they broke every clause in mutual agreements since day one and have used terror as their negotiating tool."

No, even before the intifadah israel was not prepared to give to the palestinians what the Jewish people already has, an own state. And before the first intifada israel wasn't even prepared to give them autonomy. It even didn't recognise the existance of the palestinian people! It was a deliberate choice of Israel not to allow palestinian refugees to return to their houses because they were not Jewish, it was a deliberate choice to build colonies on the land that belonged to the Palestinians and destroy palestinian villages and houses to build jewish colonies, even before any violence erupted.




"I don’t really differentiate between you and the rest of the Arab world when it comes to excusing terrorism. To sum it up your argument and justification for terrorist acts all boils down to a land issues. "

Land issues? The occupation of the westbank and gaza is an act of war and violence, as well as etnic cleansing, not only in the middle east but in the whole world.




"Here you refer to the Russian Beauty Contestants as prostitutes. That doesn’t sound like someone that’s a commie would post perhaps you have another reason to post something like this?"

Because I know that most Russian ladies in Israel (not the ones citizens of Israel but the "tourists"...) are very busy...








"So are you saying that all the Jews who are complaining of anti-Semitic attacks are lying? Every news organization in the world is lying about French anti-Semititsm? Were the synagogues not burnt down throughout France? Were the French police stationed outside the Jewish neighborhoods not attacked by Musilms? Were Jews not attacked in the street of France? "

yes, such incidents happened, and more maybe than in the States (because we have a bigger Arab population, and sometimes frustrated arabs want to expose their anger at the policy of israel by attacking Jewish people, this is of course no legitimation and has to be punished) But, in general, i can say that these remain isolated incidents, jews in France don't live in fear, nobody has been killed, most Synagogues have not been attacked or damaged, the police is doing everything it can to prevend further such incidents and all French people, even almost all french Arabs i know, have strongly condamned this. It is the work of a small but violent minority as it exists in other countries as well (for example England, Germany, Italy, but as the US)
Jews in France have in general higher positions than in most other countries(except of course the US, canada or Israel), almost 25% of my professors were Jews, and are very well integrated in the French society, maybe more so than in the US.
In the whole of my life i have never experienced anti-semitism from French people. And many French Jews condamn the oppression of the palestinians by Israel, they don't feel any special conection to israel.



"Even French president Abu Chirac had to make a fake little speech this week to try to excuse the ongoing events in the Arab colony of France, because he fears that soon enough, the Jews of the world, starting in the US, will begin to put economic sanctions on anti-Semitic France. "

LOL

[takeo]

"Talk is cheap and not only that the attacks are on the increase throughout EU. So let me ask if someone tells you that incidents of this nature are not helping the Palestinian cause whose cause is it helping? The mere fact that attacks like that does occur indicates that Arabs are engaging in anti social behavior.

These incidents are occurring in a state where fine and punishments seemingly have no deterrence. It’s not difficult to imagine that attacks of this nature would be more severe and frequent in a setting where the perpetrators are rewarded."

This acts are very counterproductive for the palestinian cause and palestinian solidarity groups all over France. These acts proove the words of israeli right-wingers and sharon-supporters that all palestinians are anti-semitic terrorists and that that is the reason why they deserve to be oppressed and occupied. They serve the cause of the israeli fascism and are hated troughout France, as well by most Arabs living here, and there is certainly no impunity or reward for this people, condamned by the whole society, if caught they will get harsh punishment, maybe even harder than people doing comparable things to Arabs (in france there is much more racism against Arabs than against Jews).
This actions however are only conducted by a small minority of ideed anti-social Arabs, mostly belonging to a minority of Algerians who live in bad economic conditions, comparable to the negro's in some quarters of New York and other big cities, who are also more violent and anti-social because of their economic conditions (however nowhere in france people are as poor and desperate and it's as dangerous as in the Bronx or in many quarters of Washington, Chicago, Detroit, etc.)

[L@mplighterM]

(in france there is much more racism against Arabs than against Jews).

How much have you experienced?



No, even before the intifadah israel was not prepared to give to the palestinians what the Jewish people already has, an own state. And before the first intifada israel wasn't even prepared to give them autonomy. It even didn't recognise the existance of the palestinian people!

You are aware that Jordan asked Israel for help to deal with the Palestinian problem back in the 1970's. Paper's were released about two weeks ago.

You are aware that the Palestinians are guaranteed
Jordanian citizenship.

They have a nice home waiting for them why don't you talk them and get them to return?














j

[Mediocrates]

It is a bigger deal to be excluded from being considered French than it is to be ostracised because you are something else. This is a very big deal to the French Jews.

[takeo]

I don't know what you are talking about?

yes I daily experience discrimination against Arabs. when i'm with Arab friends i'm the one allowed into the disco's, they are not.
Yes lomplighter, i know you favor total etnic cleansing of all Palestinians, it is because of guys like you in power in Israel (not so extreme, but close enough) that the Palestinians began their armed struggle. They had no choice: fight or disappear.

[L@mplighterM]

Originally posted by takeo
I don't know what you are talking about?

yes I daily experience discrimination against Arabs. when i'm with Arab friends i'm the one allowed into the disco's, they are not.
Yes lomplighter, i know you favor total etnic cleansing of all Palestinians, it is because of guys like you in power in Israel (not so extreme, but close enough) that the Palestinians began their armed struggle. They had no choice: fight or disappear.

*LoooooooooooooooooooooooL*


What utter nonsense takeo really do you believe that?

And I’ll tell you that Jews had a lot of German friends in the pre war years trouble is when it came down to the wire their friends disappeared. As a matter of fact I’m certain that the ones that opened the gas valves in the concentration camps did at one time associated with Jews.

Father I don’t think you know what ethnic cleansing means.

[takeo]

I'm quite sure the people voting for Hitler didn't have any Jewish friend...

yes i believe that, they had the choice between sitting in their territories constantly oppressed by israeli military quietly being choked by more and more colonies taking their lands, and without any future, or revolting against their oppressors...