let me use a word very common to you: self-defense, time to fight back!!!
Home | let me use a word very common to you: self-defense, time to fight back!!!
Originally posted by takeo
I'm quite sure the people voting for Hitler didn't have any Jewish friend...
yes i believe that, they had the choice between sitting in their territories constantly oppressed by israeli military quietly being choked by more and more colonies taking their lands, and without any future, or revolting against their oppressors...
Quite sure is not the same as being certain is it?
I’ve seen people being interviewed after the war and there wasn't one person that badmouthed a Jew. Everyone said the Jews were fine neighbors, friendly people and I always wondered what happed to them. Do you for one second believe that I believed that?
That story can be told 1000’s of times across Europe. Frightened little rabbits following the command of their evil leader Hitler happy that they weren’t the ones on the receiving end.
Go and visit the remnants of a society gone mad and while you’re there remember that it can and will happen again if Islamic Fundamentalism is allowed to flourish. It will happen again if evil is allowed to grow and I’ll tell you this anyone that advocates the murder of children must be destroyed
At times you do a lot of talking but yet you say nothing.
Last edited by L@mplighterM; 04-18-2002 at 09:13 PM.
Hitler wasn't an Islamic fundamentalist to my knowledge...
you are confusing between a big majority of palestinians with the only aim to get back their house and live in their own land, free of foreign occupation troops, legitimate goals, i think so, and indeed a small minority of extremists who want to kill all Jews.
Yes maybe many Europeans were frightened by Hitler and his repressive machinery, as well in France, but still many people resisted and risked their life to fight the system or safe Jews, really many people and of all kinds, peasants, nuns, factory workers, docters, communists, etc.
Also i know many stories of Jews saved of deportation by Arabs in Algeria during WWII.
less so in Germany of course, as the Germans really never resisted the regime, even if they couldn't possibly agree with everything going on, they were taken by the propaganda that "Jews are a danger for our land" and other nationalistic bullshit.
"anyone that advocates the murder of children must be destroyed "
right, and anyone advocating the destruction or etnic cleansing of a whole people as well.
You know; pity ill befits terrorists.
Hitler wasn't an Islamic fundamentalist to my knowledge...
The similarities between Islamic Fundamentalism and Hitler’s Nazism equal pretty much the same as far as I’m concerned. His aim was world conquest and the elimination of undesirables. If the allies hadn’t stopped him where would he have stopped with his cleansing?
really many people and of all kinds, peasants, nuns, factory workers, docters, communists, etc.
When I referred to neighbors I meant it in a literal sense. There were Gentiles that saved Jews but they were far and few between. Perhaps your buddies will hide you in a burka just be careful when you bend down and pick up a bar of soap. One word of advice don’t chose our newest member Trojan who’s from Turkey because his favorite pastime is killing Jews.
right, and anyone advocating the destruction or etnic cleansing of a whole people as well.
I see that you have finally come to your senses and now realize that Muslims are doing just that.
EYES ABROAD: The return of Vichyism
By Bret Stephens
SOMETHING ELSE, then, is at work here. Call it the politics of capitulation, or the triumph of Vichyism.
For those who follow European politics closely, and especially its foreign policy, two things especially stand out: the loftiness of the rhetoric, and the timidity of the deed."The hour of Europe has come!" said LuxembourgÕs foreign minister Jacques Poos in 1991, following a diplomatic mission to keep Serbia and Croatia from going to war. The Balkan wars were supposed to provide the occasion for Europe to take the place of the Soviet Union as the second main pole of power in the world, maintaining order within its sphere of influence. Instead, the EU sloughed off responsibility, first to the feckless UN, then to the United States. The result was Srebenica, carried out with the docile compliance of Dutch UN peacekeepers.
Part of the reason why Europe so often fails to act is structural: European states speak collectively, but act independently. Yet the structure is not an accident; it reflects a mutual convenience. Europe wants to put forth a view but it does not want to incur the costs - political, financial but most of all moral - of imposing its will.
Take the vote earlier this month by the basically powerless European Parliament to sanction Israel - and the decision by the powerful European Council to do nothing of the sort. Given the near unanimous European hysteria over alleged IDF massacres of Palestinians, there was something almost craven about the Council's decision: Countries that commit the kind of deeds of which the Israelis are accused should be sanctioned. Yet for the EU, posturing was enough. It offered just the right combination of self-congratulation, "responsiveness" to the street protestors, and appeasement of the Arabs, both within Europe and without. At the same time, it required nothing concrete of the European member states. It was a costless capitulation.
Indeed, capitulation has long been the hallmark of European governance. If French, German and Italian unions routinely go on strike, it's because they have learned that the government will likely give in to their demands. Ditto for European farmers, who command nearly 50% of the EU's total operating budget because EU governments live in fear of rural unrest.
But this is as nothing next to Europe's capitulations to the Arab world over the past three decades. Beginning in September 1970, when Europe agreed to the release of Palestinian terrorists in exchange for the release of hijacked airline passengers, Europe has consistently pursued a policy of accommodation with terrorists, from the PLO to the PKK to the Tamil Tigers. In France, police routinely turn a blind eye to looting rampages in Arab neighborhoods. And cases of assault by Arabs against Jews were - until they became a political scandal this month - met with indifference by police authorities.
Given this, it's no surprise that Israel's policy of standing up to terrorism in the West Bank should elicit such hostility among EuropeÕs governing class, for it threatens to arouse their own Arab street in ways beyond their capacity to appease. But I think it goes deeper than this. In Europe, the habits of capitulation are not merely a cowardly reflex and a source of shame, but a philosophical conceit. Europe is proud of its powerlessness, and sees it as proof of superior virtue.
Partly, I think, this reflects a Christian inheritance, seen today in the pacifism of EuropeÕs Green parties. Partly, too, it is the product of EuropeÕs historical decline. A continent that for 400 years directed world events cannot accept accept its sudden political irrelevance save by treating the matter as an inevitability from which it has derived great wisdom. Thus, for example, the collapse of EuropeÕs empires was transformed into the positive good of "decolonization." (That decolonization hasn't exactly done good by, say, Algerians or Sierra Leoneans, doesn't trouble the European conscience. What matters is to hold to the belief that with the loss of power came a gain in virtue.)
More basic to this equation, however, is the memory of the Holocaust. Typically among Jews, the prevalence of anti-Zionism in Europe is ascribed to a latent anti-Semitism, not to mention a desire to overcome a guilty conscience by painting Israeli tactics as Nazi. This may be accurate in some instances, but I would argue that the opposite is generally closer to the truth. Hatred of Israel comes from too close an identification with the victims of the Holocaust, with too great a fetish for powerlessness. Because Israel stands for Jewish power, it was bound to lose favor to those who could present themselves as the new victims. And Palestinians have been very adept at this.
What Europe wants, then, is not to harm Jews. It wants to save them, and thereby avail itself of the only means of redeeming itself. But for that to happen, Israel must again become as weak and vulnerable as it was before 1967. Back then, recall, Israel was very popular among Europeans.
IT MAY SEEM strange that roughly the same people for whom consciousness of the Holocaust remains the great informing value would seek to castigate Israel at every turn and appease those who would destroy it. But this merely points out the incoherence of European policy, both toward Israel as well as the rest of the world. For the lesson that much of Europe - especially the European Left - has taken away from the Second World War is not that power must be exercised sensibly and morally, but that power must not really be exercised at all. Hence the politics of capitulation I described above.
Yet the essence of Vichy was not capitulation, even if capitulation is what led to Vichy's creation. The essence of Vichy was its complicity in evil. Vichy may have started out as a helpless regime that had no choice but to go along with Berlin's dictates. In fact, as we now know too well, Vichy soon became a willing partner in Nazi crimes.
Today, Europe follows the path of accommodation to terrorism, to the anti-Israel fashions of the Left, to the demands of its Arab street. It does so out of convenience and cowardice, but also because it believes that there is virtue in weakness and retreat. Yet a Europe that has voluntarily renounced the exercise of power and given in to the demands of its "street" is a complicitous Europe. This may be different from an anti-Semitic Europe, but it is no less disgraceful.
70% of Palestinians who support suicide bombings, i.e., the genocide of Jews, is not a small minority.Originally posted by takeo
you are confusing between a big majority of palestinians with the only aim to get back their house and live in their own land, free of foreign occupation troops, legitimate goals, i think so, and indeed a small minority of extremists who want to kill all Jews.
And let's also not foget the the Palestinians were already offered their own state, with no military occupation whatsoever. They rejected it, and chose to continue the genocide of the Jewish people instead.
And getting back to your claim that the French anti-Semititc violenc is isolated, that is of course false. 360 incidents in a few months is widespread, not isolated.
And getting back to your claim that the French anti-Semititc violenc is isolated, that is of course false. 360 incidents in a few months is widespread, not isolated.
Here's a segment from the article:
PARIS - Nearly 360 crimes against Jews and Jewish institutions in France have occurred this month, the Interior Ministry said Wednesday.
That was nearly 360 crimes against Jews in 17 days.
Addendum:
Jewish bookshop torches in Belgium.
http://msnbc.com/news/740575.asp?0bl=-0
Last edited by L@mplighterM; 04-19-2002 at 09:29 AM.
let me first respond to the hatefull article published here.
It is claiming that Europe capitulate for the "evil" as it did in Vichy, because union strikes get more social benefits, Arabs in Europe are met with the same standards as Jews (of course completely unacceptable to zionists who consider Jews to have more rights than Arabs) and Europe tries to use diplomacy and economy instead of brute force as israel and the US.
Europe also has one standard, human rigths violations in Yougoslavia aren't any different from human rights violations in Palestine, and no country has the right to occupy other countries.
In the US and israel however the one with the biggest gun and the most cash will decide who is a war-criminal and who isn't, the press, dominated by politics and big money, will follow (well, some companies as CNN are considered not pro-israeli enough by the zionist lobby).
The result is that in the European union there is much less poverty than in the states, more equality, social programms, and all the money spend by the us and israel on military is in Europe invested in social programs to help the economy and the poor.
The US policy of devellopment aid is military, with as a result that the direct neighbours of the us are amongst the poorest in the world (Guatemala, Haiti, Nicaragua, etc.)
Vichy was only a puppet-regime of the nazi's, and all the leaders of Vichy were hated by the French and convicted to life sentences after the war. More than 100000 french died in fighting the nazi's, that is more than americans died, and with greater destruction for the country. After the war Europe develloped a new ideology that was a reaction to nazism. Military and nationalistic thinking was considered evil, and Europe knew that violence and militarist thinking would accomplish more violence and poverty as in the past, and that all people need a chance to devellop themselves (or a second chance, as the Germans, who lost the war but recovered quickly without being punished as a people, the strategy israel favours. if Sharon would have defeated hitler i'm sure today we would have a new hitler, born out of the frustration of the german people, as in WWI). Also European prisons are much more human than US or Israeli prisons, with as a result that criminals in israel and the us get even more criminal in prison than before. Unfortunately the US and israel were stuck in military thinking, with as a result that these countries are much more violent than Europe, these countries are lacking any compassion or reconvertion for the "loosers", indeed you can say these countries lack the Christian value of "compassion" with the other, which is one of the good things about christiannity.
on this board you can see that people are only seeing the suffering of their own people, never the suffering of other people (much bigger) , in the end this will revenge itself, as we have seen on 11th september and as we are seeing daily in Israel.
"The similarities between Islamic Fundamentalism and Hitler’s Nazism equal pretty much the same as far as I’m concerned. His aim was world conquest and the elimination of undesirables. If the allies hadn’t stopped him where would he have stopped with his cleansing? "
I think that the similarities between zionism and nazism are more striking than similarities between fundamentalism and nazism. All 3 are totalitarian, sure, but fundamentalism doesn't value etnic origin or statehood but only religion(as the ultra-orthodoxes in israel who try to force their fundamentalism upon other people) , while zionism and nazism both consider your blood and ancestry the most important, and both consider it to be a deciding factor of how to treat people, people not belonging to the right origin, can be barred from their houses, or in German "Land, blut und Bodem". they also consider the right of the motherland to be more important than individual rights of people and rights of neighbouring countries.
"I see that you have finally come to your senses and now realize that Muslims are doing just that."
See how you use the word "Muslim", in the same way Hitler used the word "Jewish" as the representation of all evil.
Sure suicide killers who kill innocent people are bad people, as well people ordering the killing, occupation, destruction and humiliation of cities in the westbank and gaza.
Ouote from takeo:
let me first respond to the hatefull article published here.
Your Arab buddies are guilty of the growth of anti Semitism throughout Europe. France, Britain, Belgium, Denmark, Norway and so on………………†¦
Do you live on an Island with no contact with the outside world except a connection to Israel Forum?
I don’t make the damn news I’m just reporting what I read. Do you think newspapers throughout EU are owned by Jews and they just write propaganda in them to gain sympathy? I could give you at least 50 URL’s of papers that I scour weekly.
Go to moreover.com and do some reading before you post nonsense.
Let me get this straight. Anything that isn’t to takeo’s liking is hateful. You might think the world revolves or should revolve around you but I’m afraid that isn’t so.
The rest is just Mumbo Jumbo and fragmented nonsense that has nothing to do with this thread.
"70% of Palestinians who support suicide bombings, i.e., the genocide of Jews, is not a small minority. "
sure, but did you know that before sharon started his violence-campaign against the palestinian territories less than half supported suicide bombing...
Also did you know that more than 70% of the Israeli support the war-criminal Sharon?
"les extrèmes se touchent" we say in French, meaning the extremists on both sides help eachother and are similar.
There is also a difference between supporting suicide-bombing (by the way me too, for sure after the latest criminal acts in jenin and other parts, i can't condamn suicide-actions against the occupation force or politicians responsible for war-crimes, of course i strongly reject actions against civilians on markets, busses, which is slaughter of the worst kind) against criminals or occupationists or against civilians. I believe 100% of the palestinians support the armed struggle against the occupation power, that's their right and duty to do so.
"
"And let's also not foget the the Palestinians were already offered their own state, with no military occupation whatsoever. They rejected it, and chose to continue the genocide of the Jewish people instead. "
No, they were offered only parts of their occupied land, and no full souvereignity over borders and other matters. However they are prepared to discuss this further (as they did with barak in january 2001) , Sharon however is not prepared to stop the occupation completely, he said so during oslo, camp david, so please don't make me believe he is a man of peace.
"And getting back to your claim that the French anti-Semititc violenc is isolated, that is of course false. 360 incidents in a few months is widespread, not isolated."
First it is not French but Arab violence(for obvious reasons), and second there are quite a few incidents but none have really been life-treatening and have been met by staunch condamnation from all the french society and the police is doing what they can to find the perpetraters. So any comparisation to WWII or to the situation in the middle East is just bullshit.
See how you use the word "Muslim", in the same way Hitler used the word "Jewish" as the representation of all evil.
Sure suicide killers who kill innocent people are bad people, as well people ordering the killing, occupation, destruction and humiliation of cities in the westbank and gaza.
It isn’t my fault that Muslims grow up to be Islamic Fundamentalists or their supporters. I don’t make the statistics and I’m not saying that every good Muslim is a dead Muslim. I do however believe that it’s fair to generalize based on statistics.
I NEVER SAID EVERY MUSLIM IS A TERRORIST !!!!!!!
Can you read that?
And i can assure you that France is A LOT safer for Jews than Israel or even the US, where you can get killed if you take the wrong metro to the wrong neighbourhoords.
ps: i want to make myself clear to avoid any misinterpretations: 100% of palestinians support the armed struggle, but if you would ask what's the goal of this armed struggle, than 80% will respond (according to former polls in the occupied territories by gallup) it is the liberation of gaza, westbank and Eastern Jerusalem where they live. Only 15% thinks "all of the historical Palestine" should be liberated. 5% had no opinion
Well, i remember some months ago you said on this forum that all Muslims are like animals or something like that...
I remember prostesting against it to Newsguy...
thanks for the moderation, you've become (a little) more reasonable...
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