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Thread: A call to prayer - by loudspeaker

  1. #1
    Kev
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    A call to prayer - by loudspeaker

    YIKES!


    A call to prayer - by loudspeaker


    HAMTRAMCK, MICH. – In this working-class town surrounded by Detroit, every street corner is a meeting of nations. Kosinski Hardware sits across from Aladdin Sweets. Olga and Ania's Beauty Salon is next door to a Bosnian restaurant, and the local King Video advertises movies in Albanian, Arabic, Polish, and Hindi. Conversations on the street are as likely to be in Bengali or Polish as in English.
    But if Hamtramck's immigrant past has always been a source of pride, lately it's caused tensions as well, now amplified - literally - by a call to prayer that local mosques will broadcast from speakers five times a day.

    The city council's adoption this week of an ordinance that allows the calls between 6 a.m. and 10 p.m. has spurred debate about where the right to religious freedom ends and the right to quiet begins. Now, a flood of dissent has turned Hamtramck into a national symbol of culture clash, an intersection of turmoil and tolerance. What began as a simple question of noise has become a flash point of religious distrust, difference, and fear of Muslim "outsiders."

    "Fear is the driving factor here," says the Rev. Stanley Ulman, a mild-mannered pastor who has presided over St. Ladislaus church for 25 years. Many Polish residents "feel that this isn't their town anymore - that they're being shoved out." The Reverend Ulman has urged his congregation not to rush to judgment - to give the broadcasts a chance and, more important, to start a dialogue with Muslim neighbors. But many are skeptical. "Change is the issue here," he says. "And change is always difficult,

    'Blown out of proportion'

    When the Al-Islah Islamic Center submitted its request to the council last year, it didn't anticipate a firestorm. Instead, its leaders thought they were simply being courteous - offering the city government a chance to approve and regulate the calls to prayer, which were already permitted under local laws.

    "It's been blown way out of proportion," says Masud Khan, the secretary for Al-Islah, as he sits in the mosque's prayer room. He points out that three Detroit towns on Hamtramck's borders have been issuing the calls for years without objection. Mr. Khan and other Muslims compare the calls to church bells - religious sounds that travel into the community. And with so many Muslims living nearby, he says, broadcasting the calls is the mosque's duty. "This is a freedom-of-religion country. And if you follow your religion, you have to have tolerance for others."

    In Al-Islah's foyer, flyers explain the calls to non-Muslims. They'll sound five times a day - at sunrise, noon, mid-afternoon, sunset, and nightfall - last a little over a minute, and include proclamations that translate as "Allah is the greatest," "Mohammed is the messenger of Allah," "Come to prayer," and "Come to success." They are meant only for Muslims, says Mr. Khan. "We are not preaching."

    But some residents disagree. While early objections centered on noise, they quickly morphed into discomfort with the calls' content. Area churches don't project their sermons beyond their own walls, dissenters point out. And church bells don't carry a specific message.

    "The fact that Allah, who is not my God, is being praised five times a day, seven days a week, for 365 days a year, is upsetting," says Bob Golen, a retired legal consultant who's lived in Hamtramck for 68 years. "I don't intend on moving, and I'm not out to start a war. But we will never see eye to eye on this particular issue."

    Prejudice in a Polish enclave

    In many ways, the controversy is simply a symptom of a community's growing discomfort with its own evolution - and more particularly, a sign of just how deep the distrust of Muslim cultures has grown in the wake of Sept. 11 and the war with Iraq.

    Hamtramck has long prided itself on being a "touch of Europe in America," an enclave of pirogis and polkas in the midst of Detroit. A statue of Pope John Paul II, next to a mural of Poles dancing in Krakow, stands in the center of town, and some storeowners greet customers in Polish.

    Over the past decade, however, Hamtramck has changed. It's still the first stop for many immigrants, but now they come from Bangladesh, Yemen, Bosnia, Somalia, and Pakistan, as well as from Eastern Europe. Muslims make up a third or more of the population, and shops selling halal meat and Bengali spices are as common as the Polish bakeries.

    These latest arrivals have been hard for some longtime residents to accept. And the prayer controversy has stirred up an old uneasiness with, even hostility toward, a culture and religion that remain mysterious to many here.

    "Why can't they look at their watches like everyone else?" asks one middle-aged woman, walking her long-haired chihuahua. "This is going to split the community and cause a lot of havoc."

    To immigrants, too, the clash brings up issues of assimilation, even beyond the calls' religious import. "They just want to advertise their religion and show everybody the Islamic religion is stronger than others," says Zbigniew Malkiewicz, a construction worker who came here from Poland 30 years ago. "If they want to do this, they should go back to their own country."

    Reverberations of Sept. 11

    Such anger saddens many in Hamtramck, both Muslims and non-Muslims, and points to a divide they say has widened in the past three years. "This is the reality of Sept. 11," says Imad Hamad, director of the Michigan branch of the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee. "The concept of intolerance and the high sensitivity is spreading so fast."

    People are disappointed, too, with how the media has fanned the flames. Since the first city council meeting on this subject three weeks ago, many say, the media has leapt aboard the idea of a town taken over by Muslims, even relaying incorrect information - as when journalists have referred to local Muslims as Arabs, or played tapes of "calls to prayer" that are actually religious songs or verses of the Koran.

    Shahab Ahmed, Hamtramck's first Muslim member of the city council, says most of the 1,000 or so vitriolic calls and e-mails he's received are from nonresidents. At a recent city council hearing, dissenters came from as far away as Ohio.

    The issue before the city council was simple, Mr. Ahmed explains. The previous local noise ordinance exempted religious institutions from noise restrictions. This was simply an opportunity for the council to have some say in regulating the calls to prayer - restricting the hours and decibel level, for instance. "Then it turned into a huge religious issue that I never dreamed of."

    For now, some here are suggesting lawsuits or a referendum. Karen Majewski, the council's president, hopes it doesn't come to that, widening the debate into "a civil rights issue rather than a noise issue."

    She's confident that once the media spotlight moves on, and the calls to prayer become a daily reality - they can begin 20 days from the ordinance's adoption - the issue may blow over. "People will quickly come around," says Ms. Majewski. "They're used to dealing with each other. Once they hear the call, and realize there is cooperation from the mosques, things will die down."


    I'd be driven insane if I had to hear that 5x a day..........


    Why is America allowing this nonsense?
    C'mon, we wont be able to bash the Europeans anymore if ya keep this up.


    Allah's right to free speech > your right not to listen.

    In Al-Islah's foyer, flyers explain the calls to non-Muslims. They'll sound five times a day - at sunrise, noon, mid-afternoon, sunset, and nightfall - last a little over a minute, and include proclamations that translate as "Allah is the greatest," [Ed. - OH YES] "Mohammed is the messenger of Allah," "Come to prayer," and "Come to success." They are meant only for Muslims, says Mr. Khan. "We are not preaching."

    But some residents disagree. While early objections centered on noise, they quickly morphed into discomfort with the calls' content. Area churches don't project their sermons beyond their own walls, dissenters point out. And church bells don't carry a specific message.

    "The fact that Allah, who is not my God, is being praised five times a day, seven days a week, for 365 days a year, is upsetting," says Bob Golen, a retired legal consultant who's lived in Hamtramck for 68 years. "I don't intend on moving, and I'm not out to start a war. But we will never see eye to eye on this particular issue." . . .

    "Why can't they look at their watches like everyone else?" asks one middle-aged woman, walking her long-haired chihuahua. "This is going to split the community and cause a lot of havoc."

    To immigrants, too, the clash brings up issues of assimilation, even beyond the calls' religious import. "They just want to advertise their religion and show everybody the Islamic religion is stronger than others," says Zbigniew Malkiewicz, a construction worker who came here from Poland 30 years ago. "If they want to do this, they should go back to their own country."


    Allahu Akbar

  2. #2
    Binyamin
    Guest
    Did it really not occur to them that this might be a controversial issue?



    The calls definately give the impression of a Islamic stronghold, which will lad to the undesirable parts of Islam being alot more comfortable. It is alot like hijab- it is not meant to support terror, but it sends a message to extremists that they can feel at home.

  3. #3
    golani
    Guest
    Originally posted by Binyamin
    Did it really not occur to them that this might be a controversial issue?



    The calls definately give the impression of a Islamic stronghold, which will lad to the undesirable parts of Islam being alot more comfortable. It is alot like hijab- it is not meant to support terror, but it sends a message to extremists that they can feel at home.

    CUSTOMS ADMINISTRATION SHOULD SORT OUT ENTRIES MORE CAREFULLY

  4. #4
    andak01
    Guest

    Re: A call to prayer - by loudspeaker

    Originally posted by Kev
    I'd be driven insane if I had to hear that 5x a day..........
    [/B]
    I was interested to note that Ibn Battuta, the great Moroccan explorer had the same reaction to church bells. They frightened him greatly and put him very ill at ease. The call to prayer is no more loud or persistant than church bells. In the cases that I have seen here, the call is bearly audible off the grounds of the church.

  5. #5
    Mira~
    Guest

    Re: Re: A call to prayer - by loudspeaker

    Originally posted by andak01
    I was interested to note that Ibn Battuta, the great Moroccan explorer had the same reaction to church bells. They frightened him greatly and put him very ill at ease. The call to prayer is no more loud or persistant than church bells. In the cases that I have seen here, the call is bearly audible off the grounds of the church.
    I find the call to prayer captivating, but not in the United States.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    Normally in circumstances like this the community gets together and arbitrates an acceptable compromise, or it goes to court. Is that impossible here? Are the muslims completely opposed to a negotiated settlement on the volume or location? Is so then that is a problem because that is not what American is about.

  7. #7
    Donna
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    I wonder...

    Would the same consideration be given to a church that was using a loudspeaker to broadcast Bible verses and various Christian catch-phrases at regular intervals five times a day, instead of just ringing bells?

  8. #8
    MichaelC
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    Originally posted by Mediocrates
    Normally in circumstances like this the community gets together and arbitrates an acceptable compromise, or it goes to court. Is that impossible here? Are the muslims completely opposed to a negotiated settlement on the volume or location? Is so then that is a problem because that is not what American is about.
    Has anyone ever heard of a muslim willing to negotiate anything, particularly when it concerns their religion? I get nothing but a sense of intransigence from islam concerning what they feel like doing and what westerners think of it.

  9. #9
    andak01
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    Re: I wonder...

    Originally posted by Donna
    Would the same consideration be given to a church that was using a loudspeaker to broadcast Bible verses and various Christian catch-phrases at regular intervals five times a day, instead of just ringing bells?
    Christians don't call to prayer in that way, they use bells, very audible bells. I agree with Medio, community standards and concensus should be upheld, but not double standards. If people are willing to negociate instead of kneejerk, then a suitable compromise should be attainable. The existence of the practice is required, but as far as I know, there are no regulations regarding volume.

  10. #10
    Donna
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    Re: Re: I wonder...

    Originally posted by andak01
    [B]Christians don't call to prayer in that way, they use bells, very audible bells.
    Yes, of course, Christians don't call to prayer in that way. But there is no "scripture" in the sound of a bell. Also, bells have traditionally been used to communicate to a community news of weddings, deaths, births, and danger, rather like certain cultures that fire guns into the air in celebration or mourning (only a lot less dangerous).

    However, there is nothing that would bar a neighboring church from deciding they'd like to do a similar thing. Provided said church didn't violate volume levels, would they also receive the same consideration as the mosque?

    Originally posted by andak01
    I agree with Medio, community standards and concensus should be upheld, but not double standards.
    That's exactly what I'm wondering. Would the same standard be applied to a Christian church.

    Originally posted by andak01
    If people are willing to negociate instead of kneejerk, then a suitable compromise should be attainable. The existence of the practice is required, but as far as I know, there are no regulations regarding volume.
    Originally posted by andak01
    In the cases that I have seen here, the call is bearly audible off the grounds of the church.
    Negotiation instead of kneejerking. Always preferred. However, since there are no regulations regarding volume, and the call is barely audible off the grounds, wouldn't that mean the loudspeaker was either not really necessary or, was really a means to make the call much more audible in the community and not just to those who would heed the call?

  11. #11
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    Re: I wonder...

    Originally posted by Donna
    Would the same consideration be given to a church that was using a loudspeaker to broadcast Bible verses and various Christian catch-phrases at regular intervals five times a day, instead of just ringing bells?
    It depends. In many strict Orthodox (Judaism) communities there are severe retrictions on what may or may not go on - even on public streets. In the past some of the residents have gone to war over who can drive on the Sabbath and the people who drive are equally angry. It even degrades into rock throwing sometimes. In Queens NY the Lubavitcher community went to court to fight a city ordinance prohibiting them to string wires on the light poles to establish Tzorech HaPetach (do I have that right?) or an extension of the community so that normal activities can occur w/o violating the Sabbath. The Lubavitchers won by the way.

    So it's largely a matter of how that freedom is expressed. Each case is different. It would seem that in a country that calls Cross Burning protected Free Speech that there was some room for the normal practice of one's religion whatever it happens to be.


    Of course if it were Jews they'd have an SMS pager network to fire off all the calls to prayer simultaneously.

  12. #12
    David_in_NYC
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    Re: Re: A call to prayer - by loudspeaker

    Originally posted by andak01
    I was interested to note that Ibn Battuta, the great Moroccan explorer had the same reaction to church bells. They frightened him greatly and put him very ill at ease. The call to prayer is no more loud or persistant than church bells. In the cases that I have seen here, the call is bearly audible off the grounds of the church.
    There are quite a few differences:

    1) Church bells have no religious significance.

    2) Church bells are just natural sound only. They are not artifically amplified, and use no loudspeakers.

    3) Church bells are non intrusive. I live across the street from a church and I hardly notice them. When I do notice them, I notice they have a nice sound.

    4) Church bells don't urge any behavior or action.

    They are not the same at all - and we haven't even touched the actual message of Islam, which should make any non-Muslim test his firearms and assure himself of his supply of ammunition.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    Re: I wonder...

    Originally posted by Donna
    Would the same consideration be given to a church that was using a loudspeaker to broadcast Bible verses and various Christian catch-phrases at regular intervals five times a day, instead of just ringing bells?

    I don't know, are there any cases like that? One of the problems with triumphalist relgious monocultures is they never have to live in a diverse community.

  14. #14
    Donna
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    Re: Re: I wonder...

    Originally posted by Mediocrates
    It depends. In many strict Orthodox (Judaism) communities there are severe retrictions on what may or may not go on - even on public streets. In the past some of the residents have gone to war over who can drive on the Sabbath and the people who drive are equally angry. It even degrades into rock throwing sometimes. In Queens NY the Lubavitcher community went to court to fight a city ordinance prohibiting them to string wires on the light poles to establish Tzorech HaPetach (do I have that right?) or an extension of the community so that normal activities can occur w/o violating the Sabbath. The Lubavitchers won by the way.

    So it's largely a matter of how that freedom is expressed. Each case is different. It would seem that in a country that calls Cross Burning protected Free Speech that there was some room for the normal practice of one's religion whatever it happens to be.
    When I was a kid, it was extremely rare to see businesses, even restaurants, open on Sundays. Forget making a run to the pharmacy because unless one had the home number of the pharmacist, it wasn't going to happen. Over the years, things have changed so that everything is pretty much open now, even before 12:00 on Sundays. So, it isn't unusual for individual communities and municipalities to make changes on what is accepted, even down here in the Bible Belt. The thing is, making sure that there is consideration given to the community at large and not just a smaller, select group.

    Originally posted by Mediocrates

    Of course if it were Jews they'd have an SMS pager network to fire off all the calls to prayer simultaneously.
    Now that's what I'm talking about! Heck, we have trouble letting everybody know that services are cancelled because of an ice storm.

  15. #15
    Donna
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    Re: Re: I wonder...

    Originally posted by Mediocrates
    I don't know, are there any cases like that? One of the problems with triumphalist relgious monocultures is they never have to live in a diverse community.
    That's just it. I am not aware of any particular church where I live that makes use of loudspeakers to call people to prayer. However, given the fact that as far as I know there are no rules or laws in any church barring such a thing, I suppose it would be up to the individual church.

    That's not to say that I necessarily think it would be a good thing to institute. Unless the church is situated in close enough proximity for its members to actually hear the call without it blasting like a jet engine, it would pretty much be a useless, if symbolic, thing. Kind of like using loudspeakers at a mosque to issue a call to prayer that was barely audible off the grounds.

    I'm sure that all over America, there are little towns and communities that are almost entirely "Christian" in make up. There are Mennonites and the Amish, to name two. It's pretty natural for people who are of the same religion to want to hang around together. But for the most part, I do think Christians live in diverse communities. How they all get along with their neighbors is something different. Some are obviously going to be better at it than others but heck, it's no secret we can't half get along with ourselves.


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