Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20

Thread: US diplomats' letter to Bush

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Olivier
    Guest

    US diplomats' letter to Bush

    two threads of mine have been edited of late, apparently by a moderator




    the titles that have been altered are
    "the real cause of the death of Arafat"

    as been changed to
    "Politicizing the Yasser Arafat's cause of death; or, what we don't know can hurt you.
    http://www.israelforum.com/board/sho...1&postcount=70
    I do not see what the added insinuation means... or what value added it brings




    Bombing of French soldiers : Israelis involved

    to

    Bombing of French soldiers : Israelis involved, Satan unavailable for comment
    http://www.israelforum.com/board/sho...&postcount=126
    I had not into of putting any satanic reference in the discussion

    Overall, the objective of this person is harassment.
    Arbitrary harassment because he does not share my opinions. Why leave intact threads which are either pure provocation of plain false and modify titles respecting forum rule? Why choose to distord the name of the threads I started?

    let's see one example on naming a thread :

    France: we will use the UN-mandate to continue the occupation of the Ivory Coast => this is plain lie, no french declaration was made about "occupating ivory coast".

    and guess what, the guy who created the thread has been promoted moderator ! Now he can toy with what I say in total impunity...

    Now If you want to see delirant threads titles just browse the forum..



    Now what should I do ?
    - I have first protested to the forum owner (newsguy), who answered that moderators are fully allowed change thread titles. This practice is discretionary and completely arbitrary. Any moderator can change a thread name to what he wants. Just because he feels like it.

    Ok, now what do I do ? I can either
    =========================
    solution #1 - accept that the thread I start have a title perverting what the idea I defend.

    solution #2 - stop posting and conceide victory to the harasser. This will also overjoy all here that do not share my opinions.


    Now although it is certainly not good to give in to harassment, I have choose solution #2. As I wrote to the forum owner "you might as well have the guts to ask me to leave politely and I certainly would not insist".
    But the idea that someone can pull strings and make me say what I do not want to say, just because he finds it fun is completely disgusting to me.

    I do not know for you, maybe some of you find it fantastic to read a forum like this, but for me this is more than just hindering freedom of expression, this is plain pervert.

    So bye all !


    Overall I hope I have contributed adding value to the forum and interest to the reader.
    I tried to start threads worthy of real debate and to documents my posts as well as I could! I tried not to answer provocation by avoiding the most aggressive of hateful posters.

    On the statistic side, I started no less than 113 threads and wrote 1250 posts, which means I easily dedicated two hundred hours to the forum.

    these are some of the threads I am the most proud of , Bush is elected, what can we expect in the next years?
    • Good news for the Saudis and the iranians: Crude prices hit 21 year high
    • Fight against Global warming : Kyoto Protocol becomes international treaty.
    • teaching democracy (it's a picture !)
    • If America were Iraq, What Would It be Like?
    • Another legend down the drain : Iraq's Disappearing Elections (this one is likely to make a comeback)
    • a no-win war against 1.3 billion Muslims
    • Israel Has Long Spied on U.S alleges Counterpunch (I think this thread title has been manipulated as well)
    • Moore's anti-Bush film wins top Cannes award
    • Arab-Israeli Retaliation Tragic, Unhelpful
    • Europe must not define itself against America
    • about the dangers of blurring the lines between humanitarians workers and armies
    • French troops deployed on Sudan border
    • Military Draft in the US?
    • Reaction in France on Sharon calling french jews to "leave immediately
    • Torture by US forces is Iraq is not just isolated incidents (that thread is probably the one with the longuest debate : 481 posts)
    • How can the damage of the torture photos be repaired? (with now a variant with the shooting of an unarmed wounded insurged in a mosque)
    • Are we de-Baathifying or re-Baathifying this week? (that one was not a success, by it was fun)
    • Rebirth at Ground Zero (don’t start optimistics threads here : no success)
    • Real politics starting inside iraq? (ditto)
    • U.S. Drops Effort to Gain Immunity for Its Troops
    • 9/11 panel says there was ‘‘no credible evidence’’ that Saddam had ties with al-Qaida
    • Big demonstration in Paris today against anti-Semitism
    • europe grows : Israelis rush on europeans passport
    • hostilities ending in Falluja? (lucky I put an interrogation mark on that one.. that was started in june)
    • France to expel Muslim cleric over abuse

    And it makes me extremely sad to realize all these titles can be perverted anytime…



    …. So I have decided, that I prefer to remove some of my posts than to have what I mean manipulated against my will, it’s a bit sad, but it seems reasonable to withdraw from a debate when the debate turns out to be a fake. And of course I do not approve of the hatred shown by the people who manipulate this forum to their ends.
    Last edited by Olivier; 11-24-2004 at 01:08 PM.

  2. #2
    Olivier
    Guest
    ... and what we would call a bémol in france : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3682825.stm

  3. #3
    Oh Jerusalem
    Guest

    Re: US diplomats' letter to Bush

    Originally posted by Olivier
    Sincerely,

  4. #4
    Oh Jerusalem
    Guest
    Originally posted by Olivier
    ... and what we would call a bémol in france : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3682825.stm
    What we call anti-Semites elsewhere:

    The American Educational Trust

    The lobby group behind this letter carries the bland name of the American Educational Trust (AET).

    It was founded in 1982 "to provide the American public with balanced and accurate coverage concerning US relations with Middle Eastern States," as it puts it itself.

    The phrase "balanced and accurate" about reporting the Middle East means trying to counter what the AET would see as the too pro-Israeli stance of the US media.

    The AET's founding chairman was actually a former British diplomat, an Arabist named Edward F Henderson. He had been a senior British figure in the Gulf and was the first British ambassador to Qatar.

    Subsequently he became head of the Council for the Advancement of Arab-British Understanding in London, which, as its name implies, is a lobby group promoting the Arab world.

    Unlike the British letter, the American one deals almost entirely with Israel


    The retired American diplomat who helped to organise this letter, Andrew Killgore, was a US Ambassador to Qatar himself. Mr Killgore also helped found the AET.

    The device of sending a letter to the president was copied from the letter sent by 52 former British diplomats to Mr Blair.

    It is a clever device since it lifts the protest above the usual round of comments and seminars which abound in Washington.



    Keep up the good work, Olivier!

  5. #5
    Ahava
    Guest

    Re: US diplomats' letter to Bush

    Originally posted by Olivier

    We also are deeply concerned by your April 14 endorsement of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's unilateral plan to reject the rights of three million Palestinians, to deny the right of refugees to return to their homeland,
    Quoi? The 'right' of 3 million Pallies to return was never given to them! From the very start Israel has been very clear about this issue: there are not gonna return millions of pallies to Israel. America never said otherwise. I really don't understand the 'shock' now, what's the change??
    Originally posted by Olivier

    It flouts UN Resolution 194, passed in 1948, which affirms the right of refugees to return to their homes or receive compensation for the loss of their property and assistance in resettling in a host country should they choose to do so.
    Show me how it gives them the 'right' of return. There is no right of return. Resolution 194 clearly states that Pallies who:

    wish to live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so.

    Well, they don't want to live at peace, and secondly, 'should be permitted' is merely an advisory statement. This added to the fact that this is not the only paragraph of this resolution, if this (originally non-binding) resolution is carried out, it should be carried out in full, not just this single element.

  6. #6
    Ahava
    Guest

    Re: US diplomats' letter to Bush

    Originally posted by Olivier

    Your unqualified support of Sharon's extra-judicial assassinations, Israel's Berlin Wall-like barrier,
    Uh-huh, one 'fair' group.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    N Carolina
    Posts
    30,616
    So I was reading the EU Observer today. Clearly there is some objection in the EU over the recent enlargement. It appears that many people are unhappy with including the Slavs in the EU at the expense of the Libyans. That's right, based on the clamour and the press coverage it appears that Libya is mounting a successful campaign to be the next EU member state. So it stands to reason that 'diplomats' actually retired or unemployed civil servants would pick up some pocket change shilling for the terrorist cause in Europe.

  8. #8
    Oh Jerusalem
    Guest
    Originally posted by Oh Jerusalem
    What we call anti-Semites elsewhere:

    The American Educational Trust

    The lobby group behind this letter carries the bland name of the American Educational Trust (AET).

    It was founded in 1982 "to provide the American public with balanced and accurate coverage concerning US relations with Middle Eastern States," as it puts it itself.
    Just take a quick glance at the blatant lies this "Trust" publishes:

    Washington Report On Middle East Affairs.

    They aren't even clever enough to connvingly hide the fiction they publish.

    Time to get someone to list just what these former diplomats do to earn their incomes today.

  9. #9
    Kev
    Guest
    I posted this in another thread yesterday I believe


    Olivier

    Diplomats failed to disclose their own Arab links
    By Chris Hastings, David Bamber and Roya Nikkhah
    (Filed: 02/05/2004)


    Some of the most prominent former diplomats who condemned Tony Blair's policies in the Middle East have business links with Arab governments, The Telegraph can reveal.

    In a letter published last week, 52 former British diplomats condemned the invasion of Iraq and the Government's support for Israel.
    The letter failed to disclose, however, that several of the key signatories, including Oliver Miles, the former British ambassador to Libya who instigated the letter, are paid by pro-Arab organisations.

    Some of the others hold positions in companies seeking lucrative Middle East contracts, while others have unpaid positions with pro-Arab organisations.

    The disclosure last night prompted allegations - denied by the diplomats - that they were merely promoting the interests of their clients. Andrew Dismore, the Labour MP for Hendon, said: "If an MP had made statements like these without declaring an interest in the subject they would have been before the standards and privileges committee we would have had their guts for garters.

    "This casts a very different light on what the former diplomats have said."

    The letter attacked new peace proposals announced by President Bush and Ariel Sharon as "one-sided and illegal". It warned that the measures would cost "yet more Israeli and Palestinian blood".

    The signatories said they had watched with "deepening concern the policies which you have followed on the Arab-Israeli problem and Iraq, in close co-operation with the United States. There is no case for supporting policies which are doomed to failure".

    Mr Miles is the chairman and a director of the London-based MEC International, which promotes business opportunities in the Middle East. He has a 10 per cent holding in the company and although he draws no actual salary he will receive £10,000 this year in consultancy fees from the firm.

    According to the company's website, MEC has been commissioned to produce reports for the Saudi Arabian Export Promotions Board and the Gulf Co-operation Council. An offshoot of the firm, called AIM, has carried out work for the government of Bahrain.

    The website also lists the Arab Gulf Co-operation Council, the Arab League and the National Bank of Egypt as among MEC's clients.

    Mr Miles last night insisted that he had no personal knowledge of these contracts and that they had not influenced him in drawing up the letter, although he admitted that the signatories were "slanted" towards Arabists.

    "MEC earns its money from the market, from companies and foundations, some of which are no doubt financed by Arab governments.

    "I am proud of my business links with the Arab world and would be happy to work for any Arab government. I am in contact with all the Arab ambassadors in London and a number of their embassies have been able to offer hospitality to MEC International."

    Mr Miles said that until this year he had drawn up to £4,000 annually from the company. He said the payments were not sufficient to "corrupt" and had nothing to do with his decision to organise the open letter. He added: "The eventual letter is slanted towards Arabists.

    "But that was more to do with the practicalities of the exercise rather than anything else. Because of my activities with the company I have maintained contact with former Middle East colleagues, which has made networking as far as the letter is concerned easier."

    Mr Miles, who drafted the letter while on business in Tripoli, said that he had been appearing at a conference at which he was an unpaid guest speaker. He said that he had paid for his own travel to the Libyan capital.

    Other signatories to the letter also have links to Arab organisations. Sir Archie Lamb, who was ambassador to Kuwait between 1974 and 1977, is a paid non-executive director of the international section of the Bank of Kuwait. He has been with the bank for 14 years, but declined to say how much he was paid for his work. He denied, however, that his links with Kuwait's biggest financial institution had influenced his decision to sign the letter.

    "I am a British subject and my entire career has been about protecting and promoting Britain. British interests will only be attended to by a settlement of the Israeli-Palestine issue, not by making it worse, as Mr Bush and Mr Sharon are doing."

    Sir Graham Boyce, who was ambassador to Kuwait between 1996 and 1999, is vice-chairman of VT International Services.

    This is part of the VT group, which has contracts with the Qatar emiri navy, the United Arab Emirates, the Jordanian navy, the Royal Brunei armed forces and the Egyptian navy. Only last year, the parent company won a lucrative contract to supply coastguard vessels to Oman. Sir Graham was unavailable for comment.

    Sir Alan Munro, the former British ambassador to Algeria, admitted that he had a "salaried position" advising companies on how to break into the Saudi Arabian market, but declined to say how much he was paid.

    Sir Alan also works for the Joint Arab-British Chamber of Commerce and the Middle East International Publishers, although these are voluntary positions.

    "I am called upon to address conferences around the world. I don't get a penny, but my travel and hotel accommodation are provided," said Sir Alan. "But none of this has anything to do with why I and others signed the letter. Those who say it is are barking up the wrong tree. I got involved because I am deeply worried about where Britain is heading in this part of the world."

    The conflict in Iraq is, however, having a detrimental impact on the London-based Joint Arab-British Chamber of Commerce, a private company that exists to forge closer links between British and Middle East businesses.

    The most recent set of accounts for the company, which has Sir Alan Munro on its board of directors, says the situation in Iraq has depressed trade, which in turn has contributed to its own continued loss-making.

    The same document, however, notes that: "The Arab ambassadors have, as usual, given us much support for which were are very grateful.

    The ambassadors share the same objectives as we have and we pledge ourselves to do all we can to help with their achievement." Other signatories are also prominent in organisations that have received substantial payments from Arab governments.

    Sir Terence Clark, a former ambassador to Iraq and Oman, is the volunteer chairman of the Anglo-Omani Society, which has received £70,000 from the Sultan of Oman, the organisation's patron.

    Sir David Blatherwick, a former ambassador to Egypt, is an unpaid director of the Egyptian British Chamber of Commerce. Over the past 18 months this private company has received £50,000 from the Egyptian government. A spokesman for the company said the money was in exchange for work carried out.


  10. #10
    Ahava
    Guest
    Originally posted by Oh Jerusalem
    Just take a quick glance at the blatant lies this "Trust" publishes:

    Washington Report On Middle East Affairs.

    They aren't even clever enough to connvingly hide the fiction they publish.

    Time to get someone to list just what these former diplomats do to earn their incomes today.
    The more I read the more it becomes clear just how unfair they are! That's fine, but don't present yourselves as 'fair' then.

    Check the left side on the top: Your tax dollars sent to Israel
    Wow! That I'd pay for! (as opposed to funding terrorists like here in Europe ).

  11. #11
    Binyamin
    Guest
    Originally posted by Ahava
    The more I read the more it becomes clear just how unfair they are! That's fine, but don't present yourselves as 'fair' then.

    Check the left side on the top: Your tax dollars sent to Israel
    Wow! That I'd pay for! (as opposed to funding terrorists like here in Europe ).
    Don't ignore their casualty counter. They left out 400 Israeli civilians. Besides that the idea of such a counter is completely illogical. What does it say about who is right or wrong or responsible?

  12. #12
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    N Carolina
    Posts
    30,616
    This whole thing is silly. "Art" like this isn't intended to educate or contain any meaningful facts or information. It's meant to inflame and troll. That's all it is. It's no different than PETA radicals throwing blood on people wearing fur. That's why people should get hundreds of people to cover themselves in fake blood and lay down in the middle of the street in front of this window and over the window hang a giant banner that reads "Israeli Victims of Palestinian Terrorism"

  13. #13
    Mira~
    Guest

    Re: Re: US diplomats' letter to Bush

    Originally posted by Ahava
    Quoi? The 'right' of 3 million Pallies to return was never given to them! From the very start Israel has been very clear about this issue: there are not gonna return millions of pallies to Israel. America never said otherwise. I really don't understand the 'shock' now, what's the change??

    Show me how it gives them the 'right' of return. There is no right of return. Resolution 194 clearly states that Pallies who:

    wish to live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so.

    Well, they don't want to live at peace, and secondly, 'should be permitted' is merely an advisory statement. This added to the fact that this is not the only paragraph of this resolution, if this (originally non-binding) resolution is carried out, it should be carried out in full, not just this single element.
    First of all, R. 194 is NOT a Security Council Resolution. It is a General Assembly resolution and is therefor not binding law. Secondly, it was enacted at a time when Jordan controlled the West Bank and Egypt controlled Gaza, and the idea of an independent Palestinian State alongside Israel had not even been contemplated. Finally, whey should the Palestinians receive a right that no other group of refugees has received in history? Out of the tens of millions of people who became refugees in the last century, no other people has received an internationally mandated right of return for both the people who fled war and all of their descendents forever and ever in perpetuity.

  14. #14
    Mira~
    Guest

    Re: Re: US diplomats' letter to Bush

    Originally posted by Ahava
    Uh-huh, one 'fair' group.

    Here is a good book that gives some background on the Arabists (read the editorials) and I will try to locate an article later for you:

    http://www.bookfinder.us/review2/0028740238.html

  15. #15
    Mira~
    Guest
    Originally posted by Kev
    I posted this in another thread yesterday I believe


    Olivier
    thanks!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. German Justice Minister compares Bush to Hitler.
    By L@mplighterM in forum In The News
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 09-22-2002, 12:51 PM
  2. The Bush Picture of a Palestinian State
    By JustPat in forum In The News
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-30-2002, 05:49 PM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-25-2002, 04:51 PM
  4. Israel sold out by Bush?
    By NewsGuy in forum Tackling Anti-Semitism
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-09-2002, 02:23 PM
  5. Arafat threatens Western world, Labor leaders tell diplomats
    By NewsGuy in forum Israeli-Arab Conflict
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-09-2001, 09:34 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •