Home | Note: This discussion is continued from Part 1.
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Originally posted for response by by Northlander Get this in your head no one is guilty of any war crimes in Jenin. ?[/B]Actually, Colin Powell made an official statement to that effect on Wednesday.Originally posted by Northlander
how do you know that? From israeli military sources?
http://washtimes.com/upi-breaking/24...0922-9579r.htm
Why do communities all over the world have to defend themselves from Islam, Islamic Nationalism, Radical Islamic fundamentalism, militant Islam, fundamentalist nationalism and a whole host of other nomme de guerre that cloaks this same world view. And I don't even mean nice friendly countries but some of the bigger Arab states as well such as Egypt? Why is almost every low grade civil war in Africa above the equator basically between militant muslims and someone else? Why did a million muslims die in the Iran Iraq war over the distinction between who has the holy high ground between Sunnis and Shiites? Why is Saudi Arabia pumping billions of dollars into militant fundamentalist Wahabbi programs around the world? Because it is simply about power and control. Violence and force. Death or glory.
Because the Arab muslim world view is basically and at its root a world view that sees everything which is not itself as a cancer which must be eradicated by force. Because it establishes a primitive linkage between religion and governance. Because in the absence of real political processes it relies on strong man dictator-king-tyrant leadership which establishes its own legitimacy by violence, force, brutality and fear. Because whole populations are enslaved for the enrichment of a few. Because it engenders oppression, suffering, poverty and ignorance that would make Mao's Cultural Revolution pale in comparison. Because in the end it matters little that Israel is Jewish. That it is not muslim Arab is enough. It could be a Christian state, Buddist or Martian. That doesn't matter. All that matters is that it is not Arab muslim and to the Arab muslim that it is enough to justify its destruction.
In one of the recent high level US trips to the mideast both the Syrians and the Jordanians were proud to point out how they dealt with terrorism. The Syrian president bragged how they shelled a whole city and killed 30-40,000 people with 18,000 missing. The Jordanians ran through the whole chronology how they infiltrated the PLO and then ran them back across the border into Israel with tanks, killing several thousand in the effort. Over 100,000 people are dead or unaccounted for in an undeclared civil war in Algeria between radical fundamentalists and the quas- seculare government. Egypt has 'reeducated' tens of thousands of imprisioned fundamentalists associated the the party that engineered Sadat's murder. Sudan, Niger, Chad have been engaged in low intensity civil wars that have killed, starved, dislocated, millions in fighting between the armies of Allah and anyone who gets in their way. Ethiopia, Somalia, need I say more?
Face it. The EU is scared shitless that a screaming horde of Klingons is going to come over the hill at them. And they will give up and sell out anyone they have to to avoid that possibility. They did it in the Balkans, they're doing it to Israel. Now I wonder what they'll do if it happens in Turkey. I suspect that suddenly, NATO membership won't mean that much anymore and they'll reach a 'negotiated' settlement all the time claiming that it can't get involved in Turkey's 'internal politics'.
JustPat, I meant my support of palestinians is not about religion. I can condemn or support muslims. Sorry if I wasnt clear about that. I said it because I get accused of being especially fond of muslims.
Quote from Northlander:
This is the weak link in your argumentation.
Yes I agree that there might be a very small circle of Islamic Fundamentalists in sweden. They have never used any violence here. They are no eminent threat to swedish OR european society.
Who is going to save the world from Islamic Fundamentalism? Northlander?
Sweden has never as a whole indicated that it wants to protect the freedom in western societies all they want to do is come along for the ride.
I don?t claim to be an expert on Fundamentalism but I have read enough to convince me that it?s spreading its evil tentacles around the world.
Just yesterday I read about a religious leader called Omar Bakri Mohammad (by the way he?s one of 1000?s scattered throughout Europe)that wants to establish an Islamic State in Norway. One of his priorities is to ?KILL ALL JEWS? by the way if you visit the site to which I?m going to provide a link for you can get a ?FREE COPY OF THE KORAN?. From your writings it appears that you?re anti Semitic and a supporter of Fundamentalism so why not take the plunge and send for your free copy.
Vil drepe jøder
Muhammad henvender seg imidlertid ikke bare til muslimer i Norge, men også til ikke-muslimer.
- For å gjøre det er vi nødt til å overbevise mennesker om deres ansvar og plikter.
Vårt fokus er på å invitere ikke-muslimer til islam og å få muslimer til å underkaste seg islam. Men også å bruke islam som et politisk system å leve etter.
Vil drepe jøder means Will kill Jews.
The article states in part that he?s looking for converts in Norway to establish a Fundamental Islamic State.
Link:
http://www.vg.no/pub/vgart.hbs?artid=4749071
Not only does he want to establish an Islamic State in Norway but also throughout Europe. By the way Sweden is part of Europe. I guess you think that you can come on an Israeli forum and convince people that they are overreacting when they see the EU as a major threat to the security of Israel.
It?s well established that funds are raised throughout Europe to pay for the destruction of Israel and to further their Fundamentalist cause.
grrr, I just replyed mediocrates one long answer but it vanished because of this part 2 thing. You wouldnt probably want to hear it anyway cause it was only this bla bla bla that the west has throughout history been more about power and control and violence and force than muslim countries. and then an explanation why
this i gladly reply again.Face it. The EU is scared shitless that a screaming horde of Klingons is going to come over the hill at them. And they will give up and sell out anyone they have to to avoid that possibility. They did it in the Balkans, they're doing it to Israel. Now I wonder what they'll do if it happens in Turkey. I suspect that suddenly, NATO membership won't mean that much anymore and they'll reach a 'negotiated' settlement all the time claiming that it can't get involved in Turkey's 'internal politics'.
get real! Its not us screaming about the threat of islam.
Last time Iran invaded germany it was horrible, maybe we should go to defcon 5!!!
how can arabs in palestine, wanting their own country turn into a horde threatening europe?
You're probably right. It would be impossible for Arabs to ever threaten Europe:Originally posted by Northlander
how can arabs in palestine, wanting their own country turn into a horde threatening europe?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/...653302,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wor...00/1802859.stm
well, I was wrong. LamplighterM is scared shitless.Face it. The EU is scared shitless that a screaming horde of Klingons is going to come over the hill at them. And they will give up and sell out anyone they have to to avoid that possibility. They did it in the Balkans, they're doing it to Israel. Now I wonder what they'll do if it happens in Turkey. I suspect that suddenly, NATO membership won't mean that much anymore and they'll reach a 'negotiated' settlement all the time claiming that it can't get involved in Turkey's 'internal politics'.
Im telling you guys when norway has fallen i will join the underground resistence and fight back. the only problem is that then the new islamistic government will call us terrorists and the world will hate us.
In general, though, Europe, and especially countries like France, Norway and Greece are considered to act as the political arm of Arab and Islamic terror organizations.
These countries also serve as diplomatic fig-leaves for rogue countries which support, finance and house terrorist organizations, many of whom are even found on the EU's own terrorism list.
"how can arabs in palestine, wanting their own country turn into a horde threatening europe?"
In the way that the EU cringes in mortal terror at the possibility that their stable ageing way of life of the welfare state will be upset by petroterrorism, reverse economic sanctions and a latent fear of the guest workers and arab immigrants you already house. Perhaps for the 4.5 million Norweigans of whom 86% are Lutherans that's not an issue but in other countries with diversity it is. You have what 45,000 muslims in the whole country? You have about 1000 (one thousand) Jews in the whole country for comparison's sake. Easy to see why you see no problem. Both groups are nearly invisible.
I point you to this piece on MSN about the Ugly European re: fear of the horde;
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2064776
here's a juicy -
"Anti-Muslim sentiment was already widespread in Europe, but 9/11 reinforced the Ugly Europeans' bigoted message: Muslims cause crime. Muslims cause unrest. Muslims must go. The effect was immediate: The terrorist attacks and the discovery that Hamburg was a haven of al-Qaida activity gave Judge Merciless (real name: Ronald Schill)—and his attacks on "imported unemployment and imported crime" from Muslim countries—a more than 5 percent bump in the polls. The anti-Muslim electoral wave had begun.
Much of what the Ugly Europeans propose isn't out of the mainstream of American political debate: Get tough on crime, promote Christian family values, reform the welfare state, curtail immigration. But the Ugly Europeans' policy inclinations on all those issues stem not from political ideology but from prejudice. How to get tough on crime? Get rid of the Muslim immigrants who are causing it. Why reform the welfare state? Because the Muslims are sucking us dry. Why promote Christian values? Because the Muslim invaders threaten to drown out our faith. Why curtail immigration? Because Muslims cannot assimilate into Western European cultures."
Yet strangely all the gloom and doom sayers predicted a tidal wave of anti Arab anti muslim violence in the US in the wake of 9/11. ---- uh but it didn't happen.
Is that true? In Israel? I get the impression that alot of people here on this forum really hates europe. I dont get it. I know its a infected issue all this but I really think you have a wrong picture about it. The support of the palestinians are really not based on anti-semitism. Sometimes maybe but not generally. As far as the support in stockholm, sweden, i can guarantee its not so.In general, though, Europe, and especially countries like France, Norway and Greece are considered to act as the political arm of Arab and Islamic terror organizations.
here the ones hating the jews are the same guys hating the arabs. they hates about everybody thats not 2 meters long and blond. the worst thing you would hear in media or on the streets are "sharon murderer" Anything rasist or anything anti-semitic would make people including myself act directly. Im not against israel as a nation but I get provoked by some things said here on the forum aswell. Prejudices and rasism cant be tolerated from neither part.
Its an israeli forum and its not my intention to provoke anyone here. Do you really think any sane ordinary european wants to live under islamistic rule? Do you think we hate jews from birth?
do you think we would let muslim propaganda take control over our media etc? Ask yourselves that question and then try to think what makes us react against israel. I also react even harder against Turkey. And MUCH not even comparable more, against the talibans and so on. And russia. We are not against Israel and even less against israelis. We are against the politics, the unnecessary violence and the almost rasist treatment of many palestinians. I get attacked for being anti-semistic. Its almost laughable when you think about the clashes we have had here with newnazis and stuff.
I dont really get your point Mediocrates. yes some europeans are scared shitless. But not only about islam. they are scared shitless about anything. The links were interesting, thanks by the way.
Europe has even more people than USA and no national identity. Its hard to speak of europe as one country as we do here.
But the threats people see generally I think are internal. Segregation and economical problems. I dont agree there is a great fear about islam. Its some nationalists in a few countries that fear that.
No, I do not think that most Europeans are anti-Semitic. But there is a huge difference between most Europeans and their governments.Originally posted by Northlander
Do you really think any sane ordinary european wants to live under islamistic rule? Do you think we hate jews from birth?
do you think we would let muslim propaganda take control over our media etc? Ask yourselves that question and then try to think what makes us react against israel. I also react even harder against Turkey. And MUCH not even comparable more, against the talibans and so on. And russia. We are not against Israel and even less against israelis. We are against the politics, the unnecessary violence and the almost rasist treatment of many palestinians. I get attacked for being anti-semistic. Its almost laughable when you think about the clashes we have had here with newnazis and stuff.
Despite 5 decades of mass-murder of Israelis and worldwide Islamic terrorism, I cannot recall even a single anti-Arab UN resolution ever, so far as I know. Yet the Europeans are always at the forefront of maybe dozens of anti-Israel rsolutions. I would be curious to know how do you explain that?
Let's assume for a moment that Europeans such as yourself are morally and philosophically in support of a second Palestinian state. Fine. You know very well that such a state has already been offered to the Palestinians on 97% of the pre-1967 borders, and that has been rejected by Palestinians.
Why do you not now blame the Palestinians who reject the Israeli offer of a second Palestinian state and instead proceed to butcher Israeli kindergarten children?
And even now, I suppose that you support the investigative lynching of Israel over the Jenin battle against terrorism, because you want to uncover the truth, right? So my question is why do you not support a similar investigation into all Arab countries' support of terrorism and financing of terrorist crimes against humanity?
I mean, for a man who seeks the truth and opposes war crimes and crimes against humanity, you surely would want to investigate and place an economic and cultural isolation on the Arab regimes, no?
Quote from Northlander:
Is that true? In Israel? I get the impression that alot of people here on this forum really hates europe. I dont get it. I know its a infected issue all this but I really think you have a wrong picture about it. The support of the palestinians are really not based on anti-semitism. Sometimes maybe but not generally. As far as the support in stockholm, sweden, i can guarantee its not so.
Guarantee? Gee I have Northlanders guarantee that Sweden is a pure country free from all Islamic Fundamentalism. Danes are alarmists because they have figured out that Muslims are going to outnumber them in a generation or two. Danes are alarmists because they finally recognize the dangers of Islam.
Just because there are Fundamentalist leaders throughout Europe that openly advocate killing Jews, burning or defacing their synagogues, verbally and physically harassing Jews everyone that even considers this anymore than isolated incidents are acting hysterical.
I haven't decided whether you're hired to whitewash Fundamentalism or you're naive. Judging by your long posts I would have to say that it excludes the latter.
Trust you? Never I wouldn't trust you anymore than the devil himself.
And in the end it dosen't matter what you think.
That is because we are voyeurs who take great satisfaction in living through the experiences of others.Originally posted by Mediocrates Yet strangely all the gloom and doom sayers predicted a tidal wave of anti Arab anti muslim violence in the US in the wake of 9/11. ---- uh but it didn't happen.
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