Muslim Scholars condemn Berg crime

[andak01]

CAIRO, May 12 (IslamOnline.net) - Several scholars from Al-Azhar, the world's highest Sunni religious authority, condemned the decapitation of an American civilian by unknown people in Iraq, saying Islam stands against such acts.

"Islam respects the human being, dead or alive, and cutting off the American's head was an act of mutilation forbidden by Islam," Ibrahim Al-Fayoumi, a member of Al-Azhar's Islamic Research Academy, told IslamOnline.net.

He cited a number of verses from the holy Qur'an which affirm giving due respect to dead people regardless of their race or religion.

However, Fayoumi suspected the whole episode was "an American propaganda to divert attention from the scandal of the U.S. military abuse of Iraqi detainees".

A video put on a website linked to Al-Qaeda shows the beheading of Nicholas Berg with his executioners saying it came in revenge for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. troops.

Under the title "The moment of revenge ," The Independent likened the horrific incident to the Iraqi prisoner scandal as "cruel image for cruel image".

'Harming Islam'

Mahmoud Emara, another member of the Academy, slammed the decapitation, saying it would harm the image of Islam.

"The mutilation even of enemies is rejected by Islam. A mistake could not justify another," he underlined.

The scholar cited the respect Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) had paid to bodies in the battle of Badr when he ordered the burial of the dead irrespective of their religion.

The Prophet urged his Companions on the day of Badr to be kind to their captives and treat them with clemency .

'Venting Anger'

Abdel-Rahman Al-Adawy, another member of the Islamic Research Academy, agreed.

"There is no basis in Islam to justify this, as Islam calls for justice and treating the prisoners with clemency," he said, noting that the occupation forces share a fair share of blame.

"The decapitator vented his anger at the occupation forces," mired in gruesome acts of torturing and abusing Iraqi detainees.

Al-Adawy said the broadcasting of the execution "mirrors deep anger now filling the hearts of all Muslims and world peoples over the U.S. military abuses of Iraqi civilians."

The scholar recalled that the Iraqis "were not even prisoners of war but simple civilians detained for no clear purpose."

Mohamed Raafat Othman, an Academy member, said Islam deems mutilating the body of an enemy a "punishable" crime" because after all he is a human being.

A video, titled "Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi slaughtering an American", showed five hooded men standing behind Berg while one of them read a statement denouncing the abuses of Iraqi detainees at the notorious Abu Ghraib prison.

The bearded Berg was seated on the ground dressed in an orange jumpsuit while the statement was read. After the statement was finished, Berg's captors decapitated him with a large knife.

The State Department said the body of Berg, a Philadelphia resident, was found at the weekend dumped in Baghdad.

Several Iraqi leaders and scholars have strongly condemned the beheading, saying its is against the essence of Islam.


http://www.islam-online.net/English/...rticle08.shtml

[andak01]

I'm sure that the only sentence some are going to pick out of that is this one. The fact that Fayoumi has these opinions is no doubt an effect of exposure to Egyptian media which causes people to come to very different conclusions than they would from Fox and CNN. His hatred and distrust of America should not erase the fact that he is truly disgusted by the vile Berg act (words fail me).

However, Fayoumi suspected the whole episode was "an American propaganda to divert attention from the scandal of the U.S. military abuse of Iraqi detainees".

I think it points out something else. None of us [Muslims] wants to believe that people invoking our religion could commit such vile acts. We don't recognize anything of ourselves when we see those criminals. They are alien to what we believe and the way we live our lives.

[ibrodsky]

What hypocrisy. After decades of government-organized demonstrations at which thousands chant "Death to the Jews!" in Iran; after decades of anti-Semitic slander in Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and elsewhere; after decades of Imams and Mullahs exhorting Muslims to kill Jews; and after decades of support for terrorist mass murder attacks against Israelis; suddenly, we are supposed to believe the Muslim world is against such acts.

That's right, the "American propaganda" charge exposes the phony condemnation for what it is. The only reason some Muslims are denouncing this hideous crime is they recognize it threatens to undo years of Islamist propaganda. For decades, jihadists have painted Muslims as peace-loving victims of colonialism and injustice. But such vile acts--though consistent with the Muslim world's dominant ideology--may be too much for their Leftist allies to swallow, so they must be denounced.

This denunciation is reminiscent of Arafat's crackdown on Palestinian celebrations of 9/11. It is a tactical ploy by someone who cannot denounce such acts without trying, in the same breath, to shift some or all of the blame on the infidels.

What an impressive Muslim "scholar" Ibrahim Al-Fayoumi is: he denounces a brutal murder and then turns around and blames the victims. Such is what passes as 'learned' in the primitive, backwards, dishonest, and hateful Muslim world.

[MichaelC]

Gee, is it possible that now the muslim world will rise in revolt against the multitude of daily atrocities committed in their name and we might at last hear a crescendo of outrage against the terrorism we see arising from that world? Is it possible that now, at last, common sense and good will, peace and compassion, justice and love of humanity will sweep the arab world abolishing the entrenched institutions of oppression, torture, and propaganda they have long favored, so that at last the muslim world will no longer have to suffer any damage to its "reputation"?

Anybody holding their breath while awaiting such things will soon be turning blue.

[ibrodsky]

Note that not one of the "denunciations" demands the perpetrators be brought to justice. Not one apologizes to Nick Berg's family.

The only thing these vile creatures are concerned about is the bad PR for Islam, but even then they try to deflect and excuse.

"The decapitator vented his anger at the occupation forces"

Al-Adawy said the broadcasting of the execution "mirrors deep anger now filling the hearts of all Muslims and world peoples over the U.S. military abuses of Iraqi civilians."

In fact, the clearest condemnation was:

Mohamed Raafat Othman, an Academy member, said Islam deems mutilating the body of an enemy a "punishable" crime" because after all he is a human being.

...spoken as if it is a revelation to Muslims that an American Jew, while of course an enemy by virtue of being an American Jew, is also (guess what?) a human being.

Andak01, you vile creature, if you had any shame you wouldn't have posted this reluctant, ambivalent, blame-shifting "denunciation" of something Muslims have worked tirelessly for decades to bring about.

[Mira~]

Originally posted by andak01
I think it points out something else. None of us [Muslims] wants to believe that people invoking our religion could commit such vile acts. We don't recognize anything of ourselves when we see those criminals. They are alien to what we believe and the way we live our lives.

I think it's a bunch of propagandist garbage aimed at deflecting criticism from the widespread media exposure of Nick Berg's death. Your claim that beheading is alien to Muslims is false. It happens all the time by the Islamic Arab Khartoum regime in Sudan. They behead, rape, enslave, ethnically cleanse and slaughter black Africans all the time. The worst crimes against humanity TODAY are being carried out by Arab Muslims in places that the Security Council are silent about.

[Batman]

andak it's just like you to place a deceitful article like that.

you are always strategizing. But it's clear which side you are on.


THE ARTICLE CLAIMS THAT THE ISLAM YOU SO WANT TO PRETEND IS PEACEFUL REJECTS THE FACT THAT MOSLEMS BEHEADED BERG.


The article claims that it was the Americans who staged Berg's beheading.


Oh, so Daniel Pearl was also a theater piece?


C'mon, you know Andak, your Moslem brethrens are murdering innocents all over this planet.

I am a little tired of your feeble defense of Islam and the Moslem people who are always silent and pointing fingers at others......and the article is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[Mycroft]

When the American Islamic Forum for Democracy organized "A Rally against Terror" on April 25 in Phoenix, its head, an Arizona physician named Zuhdi Jasser, said his goal was to give Muslim moderates "an opportunity to speak out publicly." And Jasser presented the rally as a robust response to the many criticisms that American Muslims had not produced a "groundswell of condemnation" against terrorism. In fact, he asserted,

The killing of innocent people out of revenge, out of hate or out of retribution is against the absolute laws of Islam. Suicide is against the absolute laws of Islam. People can justify their actions all day long, but we as Muslims are here to say clearly their actions are against everything we believe.

Jasser wrote an oped in the Arizona Republic where, as a Muslim, he took responsibility for the mistrust directed toward American Muslims, rather than merely blow this off as prejudice:

It is impossible as an American not to feel the growing palpable distrust toward the Muslim community. With attacks targeting innocent civilians across the globe, it has sadly at this time gone far beyond the initial prideful question of "Why are Muslims being singled out?" It is time now only to rally and provide an unmistakable resounding reply.

With this in mind, he set out two goals for the rally:

We want to reassure the American public that the great majority of Muslims condemn the targeting of innocents by virtue of the tenets of our faith. We also want to give hope and inspiration to faithful Muslims all over the country that this type of rally is possible.

Jasser found support for his efforts as close as the Arizona Republic, which correctly judged this event to be "the nation's first Muslim rally against terrorism," and as far away as the country's capital, where a Washington Times editorial ended with, "We salute Dr. Jasser, American patriot."

The Muslim community of Phoenix is estimated at 50,000 persons; Jasser worked strenuously to reach out to the Valley Council of Imams, Valley mosques and major Valley Islamic organizations; and the Arizona Republic, the leading newspaper of Phoenix, gave the rally its full-fledged support. A head of steam behind him, Jasser optimistically predicted that 500 to 1,000 people would attend the event.

But then the event was held (an audio of the 50-minute long event can be heard online) and reality set in. Estimates vary. The Arizona Republic counted 250 in attendance, the police 400. The number of Muslims, I heard, was between 30 and 100 persons. Most participants were not Muslim but (the Arizona Republic recounts) "people like Michael Fischer, 18, of Glendale, who wanted to denounce the stereotyping of Muslims; and Grace Clark of Apache Junction, who wanted to promote peace." One correspondent of mine judged the event "a total disaster."

But that is too severe. It was a humble beginning that can grow into something large and strong. Jasser points out to me that "The beginnings of every great movement in our great nation's history of freedom began in a small way." He notes also that American Muslims, being predominantly first-generation immigrants, are still getting grounded. With time, he expects, "the vast majority of American Muslims will listen to the message of our rally and find complete agreement with its statement of faith."

Until then, however, there is the stark reality that very few Muslims did show up. And those who did held up "peace" and "anti-war" signs, not anti-terror or anti-Islamist signs. Two factors help explain this disappointing result.

First, the message of the event did not fit the thinking of most Muslims. Unfortunately, the mood in this community is a radical one, and not inclined to stand up and condemn terrorism.

Second, Zuhdi did not pander to the Islamist establishment – such as the Council on American-Islamic Relations – in planning the event. These extremists no doubt could have brought out a larger crowd – but to rail against Israel or U.S. policy.

The Phoenix rally points to the current reality of American Muslim opinion. This problem needs to be dealt with. If not, I can imagine the United States will hear the same overt calls for jihad and Islamic rule that Western Europe is now experiencing.

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/1775

I think Daniel Pipes is a little optimistic when he describes this as a humble beginning that can grow into something large and strong. While I certainly hope he is correct, he is also correct when he says the message of the event does not fit the thinking of most Muslims.

[Batman]

Originally posted by Mycroft
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/1775

I think Daniel Pipes is a little optimistic when he describes this as a humble beginning that can grow into something large and strong. While I certainly hope he is correct, he is also correct when he says the message of the event does not fit the thinking of most Muslims.

excellent proof of what we are dealing with here in the US, just imagine the Middle East!!!!:

The Islamic "A Rally against Terror" organized by one sane Moslem resulted in:

"The Arizona Republic counted 250 in attendance, the police 400. The number of Muslims, I heard, was between 30 and 100 persons. Most participants were not Muslim but (the Arizona Republic recounts) "people like Michael Fischer, 18, of Glendale, who wanted to denounce the stereotyping of Muslims; and Grace Clark of Apache Junction, who wanted to promote peace." One correspondent of mine judged the event "a total disaster."

Until then, however, there is the stark reality that very few Muslims did show up. And those who did held up "peace" and "anti-war" signs, not anti-terror or anti-Islamist signs. Two factors help explain this disappointing result.

First, the message of the event did not fit the thinking of most Muslims. Unfortunately, the mood in this community is a radical one, and not inclined to stand up and condemn terrorism.

Second, Zuhdi did not pander to the Islamist establishment – such as the Council on American-Islamic Relations – in planning the event. These extremists no doubt could have brought out a larger crowd – but to rail against Israel or U.S. policy.

The Phoenix rally points to the current reality of American Muslim opinion. This problem needs to be dealt with. If not, I can imagine the United States will hear the same overt calls for jihad and Islamic rule that Western Europe is now experiencing."

[David_in_NYC]

Andak, let's be real. There is not a single well-known Muslim who has had anything bad to say about the beheading of Nick Berg, other than that the timing was bad, or that using such a dull knife is an un-Islamic method of beheading, as opposed to the Islam-approved, sharp-knife method.

Just hearing a single Muslim world leader declare the beheading of Berg was an evil and/or immoral act would clinch the argument that you are trying to make. However, the fact that as hard as you try, as long as you look, you won't be able to come up with one, proves that one of the following is true: a) you are deluded as to the true nature of Islam; or b) you are deliberately lying to us.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say it's most likely (a).

[Justcurious]

Sometimes I feel the Jews must just love their Muslim neighbours, there's so much discussion about their affairs. Why are there still skirmishes between the two? The title of this thread is "Muslim Scholars condemn Berg crime".

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by Justcurious
Sometimes I feel the Jews must just love their Muslim neighbours, there's so much discussion about their affairs. Why are there still skirmishes between the two? The title of this thread is "Muslim Scholars condemn Berg crime".

IF this supposed to be funny, I hadn't got it. And I know funny. I am funny. The above ain't so.

We are interested in the Arab affairs against our wishes, because many of the Arab affairs of late, is killing Jews and our American allies. The crime against Berg was one of those. Berg was one of us, a Jewish American. We grieve his death and hate his murderes, how "happened" to be Arab Islamists.

[MGB8]

Andak,

This quote, ambivilent though it might be, is still on the right path. OTOH, we have the famous beheading square in Saudi Arabia.

However, this isn't what we need Muslim Scholars to say.

You know what we need them to say?

That (1) the attempts to destroy Israel and genocide the Jews, and the continued attempts to do so, are misinterpretations of Islam, and (2) that Islam doesn't need to control all the lands of the world before the end of days, nor "fight" the west, it can coexist until the time of the prophet.

Until the, its really all meaningless.

Originally posted by Gilgamesh
IF this supposed to be funny, I hadn't got it. And I know funny. I am funny. The above ain't so.

We are interested in the Arab affairs against our wishes, because many of the Arab affairs of late, is killing Jews and our American allies. The crime against Berg was one of those. Berg was one of us, a Jewish American. We grieve his death and hate his murderes, how "happened" to be Arab Islamists.

[abu afak]

This string should be titled .. 'Apologist goes beyond Absurd'.
(reminiscent of his trying to take the offense by starting a 'Sudan' string)

The Chutzpah.. of digging out these obscure Bookworms in the Sea Of Islamic Peoples, Countries, and their Silent leaders is ... well..

andak!

Instead of saying he's Embarrased at his fellow Muslims/Countries Worldwide and their leaders... we get this incredibly Disingenuous post.

[Mira~]

Originally posted by abu afak
This string should be titled .. 'Apologist goes beyond Absurd'.
(reminiscent of his trying to take the offense by starting a 'Sudan' string)

The Chutzpah.. of digging out these obscure Bookworms in the Sea Of Islamic Peoples, Countries, and their Silent leaders is ... well..

andak!

Instead of saying he's Embarrased at his fellow Muslims/Countries Worldwide and their leaders... we get this incredibly Disingenuous post.

I am very torn about it, actually, because I don't think that andak is being disingenuous. At the same time, I am with MGB8 on this one.