Does Israel really want a Palestinian state?

[Ruth]

Would Israel really go for a Palestinian state? Could they really live side by side. Or is the objective of Arafat to only claim the land that is now occupied by Israel. Do the Palestininas even want a seperate state of their own? It seems they don't. Sorry for all the question, but I'm just trying to make sense of all of this, now that Sharon will be in Washington tomorrow.

[Mediocrates]

Even Sharon, the Sabra has said publically that an independant Palestinian state will happen, probably in his lifetime and he's and old man. He has also said publically that he doesn't believe the Palestinian and Israeli countries can (sucessfully) co-mingle. I believe what he intends is to head down the path of 2 separate countries that are rather isolated from one another.

I think this view reflects the beliefs of even the most hardened militant Israelis and other hardline prozionist Jews throughout the world myself included. I see this in the practical necessity of getting on with the job of living. OTOH I do see such enormous resentment on the part of Jews at the worlds apparent abandoning of them that they are in no mood to be conciliatory. I think that the Sharon government is bargaining from a position of strength and knows it and that they understand fairly well what it is they're willing to give away to the Palestinians to the process. And instead of buckling to the whims and demands of the EU and the PLO they are making their own demands along the line of a process. The great suspicion is that Arafat does not will not can not understand that there is in fact a process and that "everthing instantly now" is not a credible negotiating stance or that even now with cadres of Western supporters that a continued terrorist war against nobody in particular and every Jew simultaneously is a credible response.

I suspect that when you take away the rhetoric the screaming the demands the frantic cell phone calls all over the world that the one thing Arafat is terrified of the most is that he'll get his way. He'll be forced to abandon the one thing he knows how to do and his part on the world stage will be over since nation building is not something the PLO or its charter ever attempted to address. I fear he simply doesn'y have a clue what to do beyond murdering children and when the rest of the world finds that out he will be exposed as the butcher he has always claimed to be anyway.

I think that if attacks on civilians stopped tomorrow and the threat of future attacks went to near zero by enforceable treaty, bilaterally, all the Palestinians could wave goodbye to the ass end of the last IDF tank leaving the 'occupied territories'. I believe that if the PLO made some effort even a believable token one to convince the Israelis that tomorrow would be any different, that there wouldn't be one more rejection they would make plans to evac the settlers. But I suspect that is never the case because past events lead us to believe that in a list of 100 items, 99 yes's and 1 no means to the PLO "NO".

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by Ruth
Would Israel really go for a Palestinian state?

Of course. Several Israeli prime ministers from both the gib political parties have already agreed to a Palestinian state. ONe of them even offered 98% of the Wets Bank and Gaza for such a state.

But now, I hope that the Palestinian state will be delayed until it is certain that the Palestinians are capable of living their lives without mass murdering their Jewish neighbors.

[Vic]

Nothing against a Palestinian state in general, but - given the population density on both sides, the Palestinian birthrate, the geographical/military constraints and the growing ecological problems, not to mention the refugees, who would want to "return", such as those in Lebanon - maybe it would be a good idea to look around for some other territory in the sparsely populated neighboring states?

[sam]

Peace in israel could be done...
to accept for a state for the palestinians
could help to prevent and halt all the suicide bombing operations.
the islamic revenge activities is endangering the stability of israel
the only solution is to give some small concessions to the palestinian
now.
to be too tough all the time is endangering the israel spirit and
will lead to deterioraion of the existence.

[Vic]

This thread is worth a revival, I think

"Slate" offers some ideas on it:

Ariel Sharon demonstrates how to look like you're saying yes when you're really saying no.

http://slate.msn.com/?id=2065888

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by Vic
Ariel Sharon demonstrates how to look like you're saying yes when you're really saying no.

Good for Sharon. Certainly better than looking like he's saying no.

But I'll say one thing about Sharon, he keeps his word. For him, a promise is a promise, and it will be kept meticulously -- unlike any American president I have seen in my lifetime, unfortunately.

When all the rhetoric and all the smoke clears, there will eventually be created a Palestinian state and that will be completely out of the control of any Israeli prime minister. However, Israel's recognition of that state and the relationship with the future state will be determined by referendum in Israel. Again, it will not be determined by any single party platform, nor by any single prime minister.

The role of the Israeli prime minister will be only to negotiate the terms of the agreement with the Palestinians that will be presented to the Israeli people for approval or disapproval. So, I wouldn't make too much of Sharon's posturing. That's just what he's supposed to do at this stage.

If and when the Palestinians stop their terrorism and prove that they can exist in peace like civilized people, then the negotiations will start for real and we'll see what the Israeli government's offer will be.