Pakistan to buy Gripen fighters from Sweden

[golani]

Pakistan to buy Gripen fighters from Sweden

Poses threat to Israel, since state of the art Swedish multi-task aircraft could reach Israel from bases in southwestern Pakistan.
Maariv International


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The Pakistani media covering Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf state visit to Scandinavia reports that he has approached the Swedish government with a request to purchase a variety of military equipment. Swedish officials declined comment.

The main item on his shopping list is 5 squadrons (60 aircraft) of JAS-39 Gripens, considered by military observers to be at least the equal of the most advanced version of the F-16, the comparable US aircraft.

The Gripen is a frontline multi-role, swing-role supersonic (Mach 1.15 at sea level, Mach 2 at high altitude) aircraft, and is considered a match for any sophisticated fourth-generation combat aircraft. Having a Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) system powered by Volvo RM12 engine, Gripen can attain a maximum speed of Mach 2. The aircraft has a digital fly-by-wire flight control system, which further enhances its maneuverability.

Several countries, including Hungary, South Africa and the Czech Republic, have already purchased the NATO-compatible export version, which is being marketed jointly by BAE Systems and Saab.

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has been holding advanced negotiations with Saab Scania, and most of the details of the $2.7 billion deal have already been worked out. A final agreement between the Pakistan government and Gripen International is likely at the end of month, as the Swedish government is expected to approve the sale.
Until now the PAF has flown primarily US made aircraft. The decision to buy European shows that Pakistan realizes it is no longer regarded by the US as a reliable regional ally, and even more importantly, no longer sees itself as such. This is worrying, since it could mean that Musharraf has decided he needs the support of Islamic militants at home more than that of the US.


Puts Israel in range

The purchase, if it goes through could alter the strategic balance between Israel and its Moslem foes. The Gripen, with its 3,000 km. range could reach Israel from bases in southwestern Pakistan. Pakistan regards Israel as an unfriendly country, and has been extremely concerned by the growing military alliance between Jerusalem and Delhi. The fact that Pakistan, a nuclear-armed Moslem state will, for the first time, have a front line state of the art aircraft capable of reaching Israel means that the IAF may be facing a new strategic challenge.


Basic performance data

Length: 14.1 m
Span: 8.4 m
Height: 4.5 m
Normal take off weight: 8500 kg in fighter configuration
Payload: 5300 kg
Fuel, internal: 3000 litres approx (my estimate based on other,
External: 3800 litres official, numbers)
Max take off weight: 14000 kg
Range: 3000 km ferry range
Max speed: M 1.15 (1400 km/h) at sea level, close to Mach 2 at altitude
Acceleration: M 0.5 to M 1.1 at low altitude in 30 s
Turn performance: 9 G sustained, G onset rate at least 6 G/s (1-9 G in 1.2 s), min -3 G,
20+ deg/s sustained, 30 deg/s instantaneous
Climb rate: <100 s from brake release to 10 km altitude
180 s approx to 14 km
Ground turn around: <10 min with a crew of six

[Raidri]

if someons is interested.. it looks like this:
http://www2.arnes.si/~ttomsi5/jas39-2.jpg

[Gilgamesh]

More info about the Swedish weapons system designed to mass murder Jews in Israel.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/gripen.htm

[gregg]

That sucks

[Mediocrates]

More info about the Swedish weapons system designed to mass murder Jews in Israel.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/gripen.htm

I imagine they'll be positioned against India.

[minusthejihad]

If the Pakistanis fly planes like the Syrians or for that matter, any other Arabs, you have nothing to worry about.

[Gilgamesh]

I imagine they'll be positioned against India.

Nahhh... The Pakis fear the Indian. Yet, the Arabs proved the Pakis, that there is nothing to fear from us israelis. Overall, Israelis are harmless and even understandable to Pakistanies bombing Israeli civilians.

[Gilgamesh]

If the Pakistanis fly planes like the Syrians or for that matter, any other Arabs, you have nothing to worry about.

Over a decade ago, a Syrian plane in rountine arial partrol, in a MiG-23, fully armed, broken formation without warning and flew in tree-top low speed level streight into Israel.

Civilians, driving their car, phoned the police, recognizeing the Syrian war plane by it's tail markings. By the time the F-15 (who are kept in combat redeaness for events like that) were finaly off the ground, the MiG was deep into Israeli teritory. It is not clear of how many towns and cities he flew over before the story ended.

As the MiG aproached Ben-Gurion international airport, the Syrian pilot in broken english, asked permission to land and a political asylum. After some questioning, the pilot was given premission and maybe some money, and moved to Australia with an alias, to start a new life.

To this day, the security services and inteligiance are not telling if they were involved or had any knowlaged about the intention of the Syrian pilot, withi his fully armed and loaded MiG.

[rhodescholar]

If the Pakistanis fly planes like the Syrians or for that matter, any other Arabs, you have nothing to worry about.

My quote would have been the same. In 67 the arabs had russia's most advanced systems in many areas, and still got crushed. Even the best planes have to be flown by people, and israel's training - and desire - is and always will be greater than the arab muslim's, as they are fighting for their country's survival. The arabs are simply there to kill some jews, and while this might be one of their favourite pastime's, is not going to generate the same level of fervor.

[Oh Jerusalem]

Over a decade ago, a Syrian plane in rountine arial partrol, in a MiG-23, fully armed, broken formation without warning and flew in tree-top low speed level streight into Israel.

Civilians, driving their car, phoned the police, recognizeing the Syrian war plane by it's tail markings. By the time the F-15 (who are kept in combat redeaness for events like that) were finaly off the ground, the MiG was deep into Israeli teritory. It is not clear of how many towns and cities he flew over before the story ended.

As the MiG aproached Ben-Gurion international airport, the Syrian pilot in broken english, asked permission to land and a political asylum. After some questioning, the pilot was given premission and maybe some money, and moved to Australia with an alias, to start a new life.

To this day, the security services and inteligiance are not telling if they were involved or had any knowlaged about the intention of the Syrian pilot, withi his fully armed and loaded MiG.

The Mig 23 is on exhibit at the IAF Museum, in Hatzorim, next to Be'er Sheva.

[minusthejihad]

There was a good joke about a Arab pilot in the same situation, asking the Israelis if he could crash land at a nearby airport.

The tower said, "sure, but you will have to repeat after me...."

And the Arab pilot said, "sure, what do you need me to say?"

The Israeli tower began... "Yisgadal v'yiskadash ..."

!

[Mediocrates]

It's mostly the missile and less the plane:

http://www.janes.com/aerospace/milit...0529_1_n.shtml

New-generation aircraft such as the Gripen, Rafale, Typhoon and F-22 are in service now or under test. Most attention is naturally focused on airframe-related advances - stealth, supersonic maneuverability and so on - but it is smaller, often overlooked details that may bring about a revolution in air combat and bring about some of the most important changes since the advent of the missile-armed supersonic fighter in the 1960s.

Within 10 years, many in-service fighters will be armed with new and much more lethal air-to-air missiles (AAMs). They will be carrying more advanced radars and other technologies which make it much less difficult to declare a target as hostile well beyond visual range. They will also be operating with tactical datalinks which allow several aircraft to share tactical information in a manner which is simply impossible for most aircraft today. Individual and formation tactics will change - but the implications of new technology are such that nobody knows exactly how that will happen.

AAM technology defines the depth of the air battle. "Whoever has the longest reach controls the engagement," comments fighter analyst Ben Lambeth of the Rand Corporation. Lambeth recalls flying on a mock engagement in 1996, a four-versus-four out of Eglin Air Force Base (AFB), Florida. F-15s armed with the AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range AAM (AMRAAM) took on four F-15s simulating MiG-29s armed with R-27 Alamo MRAAMs and R-73 Archer SRAAMs. "I never had a tally on any of the bad guys. I rarely saw our wingman. We never put more than 3g on the airplane and we never got inverted. There were missiles and people dying everywhere."

This result reflects today's level of technology, in which the within visual range (WVR) and beyond visual range (BVR) envelopes are separate. A BAE Systems paper from 1996 - reflecting the UK thinking that led to the adoption of the BAE Systems Meteor AAM for the Typhoon - points out that a target beyond 40km range "can feel free to maneuver without fear of engagement". This is echoed by Robert Shaw, former US Navy fighter pilot and author of Fighter Combat Tactics. "There is virtually no missile that you can't outmaneuver at maximum range."

With today's weapons, the BAE paper notes, most MRAAM engagements will take place between 15km and 40km-range. Older short-range AAMs "lack not only total energy but also missile speed" and are most lethal at ranges under 8km, according to BAE. Between 8km and 15km, therefore, there is a 'commit' zone where the target can still avoid a merge into close combat if the odds are unfavorable.

The key to the next generation of MRAAMs, such as Meteor, is greater range and (more importantly) greater energy at range. The result is a much larger "no-escape zone". This zone surrounds a target and defines the maximum range at which the target cannot out-maneuver a missile shot. The missile's kill probability may be almost constant from its minimum range out to 80km. (One issue here, observes Shaw, is that it may be difficult to confirm that the missile has found its target, particularly in poor visibility: this may be one reason why Meteor has a two-way datalink.)

Boeing has joined the Meteor program with the intention of marketing the missile in the US. The situation is complicated by the fact that the F-22 needs it less than other fighters. Earlier this year, F-22 chief test pilot Paul Metz confirmed that the F-22's speed and altitude capability acts as a booster stage for the common-or-garden AMRAAM. At M1.5 and at greater altitude than the target (the F-22 has a very fast climb rate and a service ceiling well above 50,000ft), AMRAAM's range is 50% greater than is the case in a subsonic, same-altitude launch.

New SRAAMs are faster than the AIM-9 (due to larger motors or smaller wings) and have new infrared (IR) dome materials which do not blind the seeker when they are heated by air friction. With imaging infrared (IIR) seekers, they are just as effective against a non-afterburning target as against a full-reheat target. Under some circumstances, a modern SRAAM is a BVR missile, capable of being cued on to the target by aircraft sensors and locking on to it at an extreme range of 12-20km. "You can expect to be engaged from about 80km inbound and enter a [MRAAM] no-escape zone shortly thereafter," notes the BAE paper. The commit decision must be made sooner and, if the target pilot commits, the target will enter an SRAAM no-escape zone.

Once the fighters 'merge' - that is, their momentum takes them within SRAAM range of each other, so that the first fighter to attempt to escape will offer his opponent an open tail-on shot - improved SRAAMs and helmet-mounted display (HMD) technology multiply the opportunities for WVR shots. It is no longer necessary to point the aircraft towards the adversary; any target within the field of regard of the missile seeker can be engaged instantly.

According to one source, US Marine Corps F/A-18 Hornets from the Balkans theater recently engaged in mock combat with Israeli Air Force fighters. The Hornets were armed with AIM-9s, and the Israeli fighters carried Python 3 and Python 4 missiles and Elbit DASH helmet sights. IDR's source describes the results as "more than ugly", the Israelis prevailing in 220 out of 240 engagements.

There are lessons to be learned from this engagement and other tests which have shown similar results. One is that modern HMDs and SRAAMs are essential. A second lesson is that WVR combat is extremely dangerous and will become more so. "We'll see less dogfighting once we get the ability to engage targets 90º off the nose," says Shaw. "Somebody's going to get a shot, and if the missile is lethal you're going to get hit." Even the recent history of engagements suggests that the 'furball' of fighter combat, with multiple engagements spread across miles of sky, is on its way out. "We don't see a history of high-g maneuvering in recent engagements," says one industry analyst. "It's fun to practice but unwise to pursue."

A third lesson is that WVR is an equalizer. "An F-5 or a MiG-21 with a high-off-boresight missile and HMD is as capable in a 1-v-1 as an F-22," comments a former navy fighter pilot, now a civilian program manager. "In visual combat, everybody dies at the same rate," says RAND's Lambeth. Indeed, he says that a larger fighter like the F-22 may be at a disadvantage. In the early 1980s force-on-force exercises at the navy's Top Gun fighter school, F-14s were routinely seen and shot down by smaller F-5s flown by the navy's Aggressor units. An F-22 which slows down to enter a WVR combat also gives up the advantage of supersonic maneuverability.

Close range confrontation
Nevertheless, the experts consulted by IDR agreed that the fighter still needs to have the ability to fight at close range - including having a gun. The current state of the debate on this highly controversial piece of equipment is that the F-22 has a gun - indeed, its M61A2 installation, complete with a neat power-actuated door over the muzzle, is one of the most complex ever seen - as does the US Air Force (USAF) version of the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF). The US Navy (USN) had apparentlyy decided at one point to forgo the gun on the JSF - which is primarily intended as a deep-strike aircraft - but Boeing program managers now say that there is an "ongoing debate" on the subject. The marines, concerned about vertical landing weight, have settled on a 'missionized' gun, installed in a package that replaces an internal bomb station. Both JSF competitors have selected a Boeing-developed version of the Mauser BK 27mm cannon, fitted with a linkless feed system by Western Design. The UK Royal Air Force has considered eliminating the gun from its second tranche of Typhoons, not so much to save weight as to eliminate training and support costs.

[Oh Jerusalem]

According to one source, US Marine Corps F/A-18 Hornets from the Balkans theater recently engaged in mock combat with Israeli Air Force fighters. The Hornets were armed with AIM-9s, and the Israeli fighters carried Python 3 and Python 4 missiles and Elbit DASH helmet sights. IDR's source describes the results as "more than ugly", the Israelis prevailing in 220 out of 240 engagements.

Meet the Python 5!

[Northlander]

More info about the Swedish weapons system designed to mass murder Jews in Israel.

You are a clown. It was designed to massmurder russians if anything.

Not everything have with Israel to do you know.

Personally I would prefer taking a ride with this badboy:
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/visby/

And no, it was not designed against Israel. Yep, russians this time too, if just their submariners could keep sober enough to stay submerged.

[Air Spark]

I have came to know from some responcible sources that Pakistan Airforce is exercisingfor some long range mission.and they have Converted 2 C130 n one Boeing as a tanker.
Have anyone information what they have planned ..Is that for us(India) or Israel.