and please stop using biased ultra-zionist sources, i use neutral sources from christian websites.
Home | and please stop using biased ultra-zionist sources, i use neutral sources from christian websites.
Bethlehem had a 60 percent Christian majority in 1994. Now it's down to 20 percent.
http://www.freeman.org/m_online/feb02/davis1.htm
I was in Bethlehem in 1982. There were a lot women in Muslim robes, didn't look much like a Christian town. I was also a little surprised to see the "original cave where Jesus was born" -- I guess my pastor just didn't mention the cave part.
Last edited by kauffner; 05-16-2002 at 09:40 PM.
In short, life is hard, but they can and do emigrate.
http://www.jpost.com/NASApp/cs/Conte...=1021464444912
The article mentions that the the mayors of Bethlehem and two other towns wanted to get the area annexed to Israel in the 1980s, but Israel bowed to international pressure and did not do so.
Read my links to Christian sources and you'll see the reason why christians feel bad is not primarily because of muslim repression...
The unfortunate thing is that Israel did not annex those three towns as requested by the mayors in the 1980s. It would have been better for Israel, better for the population, better for tourists.
Now the population has to be oppressed by thugs like those that were in the Church of the Nativity and suffer under the repression of the Palestinian Authority. On the other hand, I know the pressure against Israel annexing those areas had to be intense. And it's not Israel's fault that the Arabs ruling Bethlehem are thuggish in nature.
The article shows that Israeli "occupation" of the area was generally a positive thing.
that's why it's an article published in the Jerusalem Post... not for providing unbiased information but for providing everything that can be usefull in the israeli propaganda-machine...
on the contrary independant research by Christian engaged people, to which i provided the links in this thread, come to the conclusion that the israeli occupation was the most important reason why Christians fled their hometown and live in bad conditions.
I'm not really sure how do you want to understand the position of the Christians of Bethlehem in particular and in the middle east in general when no one of you cared to look for any publications/letters/articles from them.
Anyway, to understand how things go between the Middle East Christians, let's first classify them into 3 categories:
1) Political (Arab government member) Christians.
This first category obviously is "politically" motivated. The show their absolute support for Palestinians rights and attacks Israel whenever they have the chance.
2) Normal Christians inside the Middle East.
This second category hates Muslims (and Palestinians as well) and understands Israel's right of existence based on their faith in the old testimony of the bible (don't EVER underestimate the rule of Bible in the life of the oriental Christians). They, however, cannot speak out since of course the Arabs prisons are widely opened for such people especially with such opinions.
3) Normal Christians from the Middle East, but living outside the Middle East.
This last category has the same opinion as second category but the obvious different is that they can speak out since most of them lives in the USA or Australia. They are also quite powerful since they are usually very highly intellectual and have many contacts with political leaders in the US.
To understand this position clearer, here is a letter written from The Orthodox (mainly from Middle east) Christians Association in the USA to someone called Nabil Bebawi. This "Nabi Bebawi" is an Egyptian Christians who is a member of the Egyptian government (hence belong to the first category). He sharply criticized Israel for the events of the Church of Nativity. Now this letter shows EXACTLY how the Christians of the Middle East feel about the situation.
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El Hagg Nabil Bebawi keeps lashing in every possible direction! Apparently, he decided to give the Diaspora Copts a break and is directing his criticism now against Pope Shenouda! And why not since no one in Egypt dared telling him to try to be intellectually honest and tame down his consuming ambition to look like the concerned patriot who cares so much about the Palestinian thugs who desecrated the Church of the Nativity.
He is not satisfied with the shaw of solidarity with the Palestinians displayed by Pope Shenouda and his declared resentment of the Israeli siege of the Church of nativity. Dr. Bebawi now wants the Pope to hold an even bigger event to do the same even after the church siege has ended and more facts about how the Palestinians desecrated and damaged the Christian holy place that they sought refuge in.
Reports claim that the armed gangs which took refuge in the church did not respect its sanctity and used the altar as a kitchen table and the baptistery to wash dishes.
I have no proof to verify these allegations, but they generally fit into the over all scheme of events: A gang of armed Palestinians storm the church with the idea that this is going to be a win-win move for them: If the Israelis attack the church, they will raise the ire of the Christian world, and the Palestinians can erect a great mosque eventually at the site of the leveled down church to celebrate the "martyrdom" of their noble freedom fighters! And if the Israelis refrain from attacking the sanctuary, then the cowards who took refuge inside it with their weapons will be safe.
What happened is a combination of the two scenarios. Apparently when the Palestinian thugs realized that the Israelis were not going to violate the sanctity of the structure by storming it, the fugitives started provoking their pursuers by shooting at them to induce them to respond knowing full well that they can't be injured inside the church and welcoming any damage to the holy place to exploit it as a propaganda tool and gain it as an aim for its own sake.
A gang of armed men who seek to hide in a church know very well that using their arms from inside the church will not affect the superior power of the besieging Israelis to any extent. What was then the purpose of shooting at them from inside the church if it was not for the sole aim of incurring damage to the church?
To prove the malicious intentions of the armed gang towards the church one has to look at the amount of filth and damage they created inside the structure which was caused by their dirty and uncivilized habits or which was intentionally meant to damage the inside of the church. Would these cowards ever think of using the minbar of any mosque as a platform to cook their food or to soil the place in a way only possible and understandable only for beasts to leave behind?
However, this is does not appear to be enough evidence for el Me3allem Bebawi to keep his hypocritical remarks to himself. He insists on demonstrating his zeal and "support" for whoever helps making him look like a super-patriot lashing at everyone starting from the Diaspora Copts to the head of the Coptic Church for not hiring a me3addeda to wail the misfortune of his beloved cowards who violated the sanctity of one of the most sacred shrines of Christianity and intended to damage it inside and out.
Did brother Bebawi ever ask himself what more did any political or religious Moslem leader do more than Pope Shenouda and the maligned Diaspora Copts in support of his beloved heroes? Or is it that Cardinal Bebawi wants to be more Catholic than the Pope (of Rome of course, why not drag him also in the farce?)
What makes me wonder is what is really motivating el osta Bebawi to write his self humiliating comedies. He was already appointed to and dismissed from the useless Egyptian Magless Shora, so what next favor is he really dreaming to pick up from the crumbs of his masters table? To be the first "Coptic" (allah lay addar) president of the Arab Republic of Egypt? Let me assure him that under the current conditions wala 7atta Mosslem (not even a Moslem) can dream of such a favor as long as we have the current president "mothabbat 3ala korsieh".
El sheikh Bebawi is being ridiculed and despised now by the Moslems more than the Copts, for the Copts have already given up on him, and the Moslems are disgusted by the smell and looks of the nauseating phony excreta spewing from his mouth escaping the control of a presumably competent oral sphincter.
blabla
please do me a favor and read the links i provided that are the only scientific studies about the Christian community in Palestine. (by American Christians by the way)
You proove to know nothing at all about Christians in Palestine/Israel:
"This second category hates Muslims (and Palestinians as well) "
almost all Christians ARE Palestinians and speak Arab
Since you are the amazing, brilliant, genius expert in Christians in the Middle East, would you please be kind enough to tell us how many years of your life have you spent in the Middle East, Mr. Expert??????Originally posted by takeo
You proove to know nothing at all about Christians in Palestine/Israel:
Coz as far as I see, you just copy and paste from the web like idiots.
Ezra,
That was a very interesting letter. Thanks for posting it. I hadn't thought of the possibility that it would be a great coup for the Muslims to have yet another "holy spot" free and clear to build a mosque, but it makes sense.
as you do too.
At least i paste and copy from neutral and relevant sources.
I have only visited the Middle East, yet I have been in the occupied territories too (don't know if you did...) and studied some things about Palestinian Christianity, which is certainly more than you did.
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