Wake up and smell the bodies !

[L@mplighterM]

My uncle was in a concentration camp during WW II. He was thrown on a death wagon, which was basically a horse drawn cart that transported corpses for burial in mass graves. Through a miracle of fate he survived (I wont go into the details) his story is one of millions. Others through no fault of their own weren?t so lucky and were subjected to the worst forms of human indignities that anyone could ever imagine.

At some point you cross the line of human decency and what you posted Belgium went far beyond that.

The Palestinians that died at Jenin has many opportunities to surrender. At one point they in fact did surrender but it turned out to be an ambush.

My uncle and 11,000,000 like him weren?t given the same opportunity, surrender meant death.


You can apologize to the others and they can accept your apology but I wont accept your apology. Never!

This is the last time I?ll respond to your posts.

[Metal_Girl]

HI! Im new here guys,

I think that everyone should move on ..............both sides have suffered heavily, and we should not hold grudges.

-Leila

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by Belgium@EU
NewsGuy made a racist comment (is he the webmaster, serious?)

Yes, I am one of 3 Moderators. And I disagree that I made a racist comment. The thread is above for everyone to decide for themselves.

But I will not ban you. Whenever possible, I do not ban, nor even censor. That's not what this forum is about. It is about open discussion and debate.

But you will learn with time that we are a community and we get to know each other. Everyone in our community can decide with whom they want to converse... or not.

I suggest that you learn from others in this forum who, like you, oppose Israel's policies, but who know how to communicate their positions with more finesse. Ultimately, it's up to you.

[Belgium@EU]

@ Newsguy OK

@ Lomplighter

I will never apologise for my comments. Never. My grandfather also had to work in german factories but he escaped. He was not a Jew, just a regular 'peasant' as the Germans would have said. Don't tell me what war looks like. I really don't see what's the commotion around all this, and my quote was not more or less decent than the one with the "smelly Palestinians".

[alm0nd]

Speaking of smells and personal hygiene...


There is a joke of a Muslim living in a foreign country who was washing up for the noon prayer (one of the five prayers a muslim must do everyday) in a public WC .

while he was washing up another man was observing him until he lifted his foot to wash it in the sink ...

"Stop.. what are you doing?" said the nonmuslim "you will get the sink dirty with your feet!"

The muslim looked at him and said "excuse me sir, but how many times do you wash your face everyday?"

the man said "once every morning.. I may do it again during the day to freshen up"

the muslim then smiled at him and said "I wash my feet five times a day ... so what do you think is cleaner, your face or my feet?"

[Gatorade]

Belgium@EU,

I am thinking that you may think Israel went in and tried to kill a bunch of Palestinians at Jenin randomly. However, this doesn't appear to be the case. It appears that Israel tried its best to limit civilian causalities and was in a tough fight and killed many terrrorists in battle.

http://www.israelforum.com/board/sho...st7368post7368

The commander of Hamas members in the Jenin camp, Jamal 'Abd Al-Salam, said that the women, children, and elderly had left the camp, and that the fighters intended to fight to the last drop of blood.

http://www.israelforum.com/board/sho...5&pagenumber=2

A leader of Islamic Jihad, an elderly man whose home was at the center of the fighting, and other Palestinian residents, all of whom were in the camp during the battle, none reported seeing large numbers of civilians killed. All said they were allowed to surrender or evacuate

Munir Arsam, 15, a member of Islamic Jihad said women and children were able to evacuate the camp before the climactic battle began. Even at the height of the struggle, fighters were able to put down their weapons and surrender

Khalid Mohammed Taleb, 70, said several times that no civilians were killed

I am sure Newsguy is aware that more than 50 Palestinians died at Jenin. I am sure he had heard the comments from Palestinians at Jenin. After listening to those comments he thought that 50 of those killed at Jenin were terrorists. Maybe there some civilians who died there and that is a shame but his comment was not directed to Palestinians civilians who died there. He was talking about terrorists who happen to be Palestinians.

So I ask again, do you equate a terrorist killed in a fight to a innocent Jew killed at a concentration camp?

It is okay to say you were wrong. On a message board, no one will think less of you. In fact, you would gain crediblity if you showed you were open minded and willing to listen to evidence that would lead you to change you mind.

[Belgium@EU]

I'm always willing to change my mind, and I have respect for what you just said. If a masacre took place, we will never find out anymore. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. It might be that there were cases were the IDF acted very humane, and that Palestinians used civilians as human shield. But unfortunatelly, also more barbaric actions took place. It's not up to me to decide who's right/wrong, the only organisation which could have told us more was the UN. You all know what happened, and since then, Israel has lost a lot of credibility from the ROTW.

But what Newsguy said about Palestinians aka smelly people was a very childish, racist remark, which I wouldn't expect from a webmaster. It might be a joke, but than look at my phrase as a joke also, and don't blame me for being anti-semitic. I'm willing to apologize only if Newsguy does so.

[Evolution]

Newsguy's comment was as bad of Belgium's, but the board does have open anti Arab racism here, whilst Anti Jewish comments are seen as a graeter crime.

Why?

All people are equal, and the loss of any civilian life is regrettable. The one thing I will say in favour of the IDF is that killing aside, they never rape, or dishonour women and children like the Indian forces are known to do. That I will respect and openly comment the IDF for.

I think both sides kinda go for civilians a little bit, to get the physcological edge over the other. It should just stop, and negotiations should take place.

Jenin:

I dont think there was a massacre, but I think there was more then 50 dead, its a middle ground somewhere, and Israel should let the UN team in. It makes them look VERY bad in the eyes of the world.

[Belgium@EU]

Originally posted by Evolution


All people are equal, and the loss of any civilian life is regrettable.

"All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others."

Arabs are not equal, because they don't have money, growing economy and we - the west - think we have nothing to learn from these people. That's a shame!

[Evolution]

Actually, the Arabs do have $$$$$, esp those on the Gulf Peninsula. But I see the point, and I agree that its sad that the world can overlook the lessons which need to be learnt from the Arabs and there predicurement.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by Belgium@EU


"All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others."

Arabs are not equal, because they don't have money, growing economy and we - the west - think we have nothing to learn from these people. That's a shame!

Arabs have TONS of money yet no way to distribute it in anything resembling a post medieval approach to distributing or generating it. Let's face facts: our arab 'friends' are absolute genetic monarchies not seen in the west since Louis XIV.

[Pathfinder]

Originally posted by Belgium@EU
You see this was the kinds of posts I was expecting! NewsGuy made a racist comment (is he the webmaster, serious?), I answer with another racist comment. Still, you guys seem only to adapt racism when dealing with Jews, Arab's are not important.

The difference is Newsguy was talking about terrorists. How is that construed as racist? Unless of course YOU consider all Arabs terrorists and all terrorists arabs. Then you could consider his statement about the smell of terrorists to be a racist comment about Arabs.

[Skogan]

Both Newsguy and Belgum made a joke. Newsguy played off a racist stereotype that arabs smell, (that is not a stereotype of terrorist, but of arabs.) Belgums response was not racist, (it didn't portay jews in any negative way) but it was insensitive and in poor taste. He's was using morbid,or gallows, humor which is always insensitive and in poor taste (that's its defining feature.)

In the end, they were both jokes. They may have been wrong, but I laughed at both of 'em. There's no need for everyone to be so cautious and P.C. that they can't lighten up a bit without fear of the race card being played. Let's move on.

Skogan

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by Skogan
Both Newsguy and Belgum made a joke. Newsguy played off a racist stereotype that arabs smell

Well, this has been pretty amusing for me to read. I was not even aware of a stereotype that Arabs smell. I've heard many other stereotypes (which I oppose anyway), but not this one.

Pathfinder is exactly right. I did make a cynical joke about the dead terrorists. Moreover, I believe that the Arab terrorists who would mass murder children in a pizza store or in a shopping mall are subhuman and I am glad that justice is done every time I read of terrorists being gunned down by their intended victims.

If someone thinks this is a racist position, I guess that they are entitled to their opinion, but if they are second-guessing me, then I might as well say that they are wrong.

[arielle]

The man Kofi Annan put in charge of the UN "fact-finding" mission was an anti-Semite who has refused the Magen-David Adoms entrance into the Red Cross society. He is a known anti-Israeli and anti-Semite and Israel would have to have been the uttermost fool to allow him to lead an investigation.