Zionists Made A Deal With The Devil

[chrisjohn316]

The title is from an article which can be read here:
http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2004/08/76772.php

Start quote:
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Zionists Made A Deal With The Devil
by Laura Monday August 16, 2004 at 08:02 AM

Under the 1935 Nuremberg Laws, only two flags were permitted in Nazi Germany. One was the swastika. The other was the blue and white banner of Zionism.


According to Lenni Brenner's online book Zionism in the Age of Dictators (Ch.7), the Zionist party was the only other political party in Nazi Germany that enjoyed a measure of freedom, and could publish a newspaper. The reason: Zionists and Nazis had a common interest, making German Jews go to Palestine. (http://www.marxists.de/middleast/brenner/ch07.htm)

History is not always what you'd expect.

There are more shocking examples in Brenner's book (Chapters 24 & 25).

For instance, in November 1942, Rabbi Michael Dov-Ber Weismandel, a Jewish activist in Slovakia approached Adoph Eichmann's representative, Dieter Wisliceny: "How much money would be needed for all the European Jews to be saved?" Wisliceny went to Berlin and returned with an answer. For a mere $2 million they could have all the Jews in Western Europe and the Balkans. Weismandel sent a courier to the World Zionist Organization in Switzerland. His request was refused.

[Oh Jerusalem]

About the flag, I don't know and I don't care.

Note that the same stuff is mostly found on anti-semitic hate sites.

Came back to the forum with a thump, didn't you.

[Oh Jerusalem]

Just to give you an idea of what you're quoting here, you'll find the same and more on Rense.com, of course.

[Oh Jerusalem]

On the subject of making deals with Reichman, I suggest you read something more serious, like Perfidy. Indeed tragic.

[michael]

chrisjohn316 what's your point??

Yes, a very few Zionists and Jews had contact with the Nazis, but so did others - French, Arabs etc.

[chrisjohn316]

Oh Jerusalem you could have said all that in ONE post but then again your post count wouldn't be in the thousands, which is soooooo impressive

Michael, my point is to share this Israeli related information on an Israeli site and gleen the the responses and maybe learn something. I wonder why you needed the bleeding obvious explained to you, but hey maybe you are just that type of a person.

So is any of this stuff accepted or disputed? Don't get upset... I am not saying this is my viewpoint.

[Oh Jerusalem]

I don't know about the flag. Sounds like nonsense. In any case, what's the point? That the Nuremberg Laws were good for the Jews?

Regarding Rabbi Weismandel, he wrote a book of his experiences seeking the release of his fellow Jews. It's called Min Hameitzar (roughly translated: From The Depths of Calamity), written in Hebrew.

For a more reliable rendition of what happened, based on Rabbi Weismandel's book, see this.

[chrisjohn316]

Oh Jerusalem you seem to have gone off topic. I had a look at your link but didn't find anything relevant. If you don't want to discuss my first post then don't. Please do not go off topic. I would like to know if the claims made are correct or incorrect. Surely that is possible here?

[Oh Jerusalem]

Oh Jerusalem you seem to have gone off topic. I had a look at your link but didn't find anything relevant.

"They have eyes but do not see."

Excerpt from the link I gave, referring to Rabbi Weismandel:

When the transportaions accelerated to full steam, asked Rabi Weismandel from Rabi Unger, his father in law, and the spiritual leader of the Slovak religious Jews, to overcome his objection (Rabi Unger refused to take part in the appeal to the Pope, predicting the unfortunate outcome of this endeavor), and meet Kmetko, a 82 year old Archibishop in Nietra, and ask his mercy to intervene with the Slovak gov to stop the transportations.

When that meeting took place, the Jews didn't know yet that the "labor camps" are actually death ones. In their meeting, said the Archibishop: This is not merely an expulsion. All the Jews transported to Poland will be slaughtered, as a due punishment of killing Jesus. He advised Rabi Unger to convince the Jews to convert, thus saving their lives.

On 5.5.43, when the news of the mass murder of Jews was already known to all, learned the Vatican to know, that the Germans did not fully hold to their agreement about exempting all converts. Which prompted the Pope to issue a letter to the Slovak gov, expressing his holy grief about not exempting the Jewish converts to Christainity from the transportations, ordering the Slovaks to insist on fullfilling that condition. No word, about the fate of the rest of the Jews.

Rabi Weismandel succeeded later to stop the transporations, by bribing Wisliceny, but in 1944, the transporations renewed. Rabi Weismandel, that was then in Sered, went to meet the Catholic Nonzius in Presburg (Bratislava), and asked his intervention with Tisso to stop the murder. It was Sunday, and the Nonzius explained that he and Father Tisso do not deal with profane matters on the holy day - "profane angelegenheite" was his tongue.
The Rav started to weep, asking mercy on the lives of innocent women and children.

The Nonzius ansered thus: "Es gibt kein unshuldiges yidishes kinderblut, yedes yidisher blut ist shuldig" - there is no such thing as innocent Jewish children blood, all Jewish blood is guilty.

The above was taken from Rabi Weismandel's book "Min Hameizaer", written in Hebrew.


However, it indeed does not discuss Weismandel's meeting the WZO in Switzerland. Every site that does seems to be anti-semitic or the particular poster of the story obviously is.

Anyway, like I said, read Perfidy.

If you don't want to discuss my first post then don't.

I discussed your post.

Please do not go off topic.

I didn't go off-topic.

I would like to know if the claims made are correct or incorrect. Surely that is possible here?

Google for it yourself. But at least I tried. More than you've done.

[chrisjohn316]

Oh Jerusalem your reply does not address the specifics so you haven't done much other than to muddy the waters.

Do you understand what it is to be on topic to answer a specific question. I guess not for you have demonstrated that you just don't know. Hey that is ok but don't be pretentious like you do know.

Google it? I want to discuss it. I want to know if these claims are true or not. The matters raised are important, even now some sixty years later.

I am not going to read "Perfidy". This isn't a scholarly work, but a question out of passing interest. If it is true or not is of interest. Did it really happen that Jews conspired against Jews or is this yet another anti-Jewish propaganda.

I would like to know and here is a good place to ask.

Btw I never left the forum. Just cause I don't post all the time doesn't mean I have left. I wait till I want to discuss something. Also I have a life outside of this forum

[Mediocrates]

About the flag, I don't know and I don't care.

Nazi Racial Legislation: The Nuremberg Laws

One of the earliest statements of the Nazi party--the policy document of 1920 known as the Twenty-Five Points--explicitly foreshadowed the exclusion of Jews from German citizenship (Point 4).Thus, as soon as Hitler came to power in 1933, no time was lost in proceeding against Germany's Jewish citizens. In the early months of the regime, they were prey to unbridled violence by Party activists during the so-called Brown Terror. Officially, steps were immediately taken to dismiss Jews from the civil service, reduce their number in the professions, and curtail the students in schools and colleges. Partly as a ploy to bring order to the shameless Party activism against inoffensive citizens and to clarify the regime's attitude to German Jewry, the two measures outlined below were passed at a meeting of the Party Congress at Nuremberg on Sept. 15, 1935.

Two of the laws are outlined below. The third, the Reich Flag Act, decreed the new German national flag to be the Nazi swastika flag.

Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honor

Firm in the knowledge that the purity of German blood is the basis for the survival of the German people and inspired by the unshakeable determination to safeguard the future of the German nation, the Reichstag has unanimously resolved upon the following law, which is promulgated herewith:

Section 1

Marriages between Jews and citizens of German or some related blood are forbidden.

Such marriages contracted despite the law are invalid, even if they take
place abroad in order to avoid the law.

Section 2

Sexual relations outside marriage between Jews and citizens of German or related blood are forbidden.

Section 3

Jews will not be permitted to employ female citizens of German or related blood who are under 45 years as housekeepers.

Section 4

1. Jews are forbidden to raise the national flag or display the national colors.
2. However, they are allowed to display the Jewish colors. The exercise of this right is protected by the State.

Section 5

1. Anyone who disregards Section 1 is liable to penal servitude.
2. Anyone who disregards the prohibition of Section 2 will be punished with imprisonment or penal servitude.
3. Anyone who disregards the provisions of Sections 3 or 4 will be punished with imprisonment up to one year or with a fine, or with one of these penalties.
. . . .


The Reich Citizenship Law, 1935

Article 1
Section 1

A German subject is one who is a member of the protective union of the German Reich and is bound to it by special obligations. . . .

Section 2

1. A Reich citizen is that subject who is of German or related blood only and who through his behavior demonstrates that he is ready and able to serve faithfully the German people and Reich.
2. The right to citizenship of the Reich is acquired by the grant of citizenship papers.
3. A citizen of the Reich is the sole bearer of full political rights as provided by the law.

In the subsequent clarifying regulation of Nov. 14, 1935, a Jew was defined as anyone who was descended from: (a) at least three racially full Jewish grandparents or (b) two full Jewish parents if he or she belonged to the Jewish religious c ommunity (i.e., an observing Jew); was married to a Jewish person; was the offspring of a full Jew (as defined in a.) or the offspring of an extramarital relationship with a full Jew. Neither could a Jew be a citizen of the Reich, vote or hold public office.

Incidentally, persons of mixed Jewish blood (i.e., half-Jews--with one or two Jewish grandparents) were absolved from these restrictions, though, again, Jewish observance tightened the restrictions.

[Mediocrates]

I would like to know if the claims made are correct or incorrect. Surely that is possible here?

Do you have a specific question? I'd recommend you read "From Time Immemorial" by Joan Peters. She covers some of this material in detail. The short version is that after the Nazis confiscated hundreds of million of marks from the Jews they went to the WZO to request a bribe to save some Jews, the numbers of which were never discussed. The WZO didn't so much refuse as not have the money to pay nor the contacts or the mechanisms to handle any soft of mass transfer or people to a land that was not under the control of the Germans or the WZO. They could have just as well demanded the WZO pay to send Jews to Peoria, couldn't they? At any rate there were several rounds of negotiations with the Turks and it all gets very murky about who wanted what cut of the bribe, who could be trusted and whether any Jews could be saved.

[Oh Jerusalem]

Do you have a specific question? I'd recommend you read "From Time Immemorial" by Joan Peters.

CJ's not into reading more than a few paragraphs. To quote him about his own thread:

"This isn't a scholarly work, but a question out of passing interest."

[chrisjohn316]

Mediocrates - excellent reply. So what is the logic in letting Jews fly the "Jewish" flag or what was it at that time? The Star of David flag didn't exist did it so what is being referred to?

As for the payment I can see that money is just one of the problems given that no one would help welcome the refugees. I know that we helped people from Kosovo a few years ago but that was a short term humanitarian aid.

It seems that what is stated is true but it is not complete and this lack of fullness can lead to incorrect conclusions being made.

I would like to hear your views about the safeguard of a Jewish flag and the matter regarding a ransom for the lives of some.

[Mediocrates]

Mediocrates - excellent reply. So what is the logic in letting Jews fly the "Jewish" flag or what was it at that time? The Star of David flag didn't exist did it so what is being referred to?

It was probably unknown even then and refers to a European tradition of flags for small historical clans, religious orders and the like. Here is a modern example:

http://www.lamafoundation.org/yod_hayvavhay_display.htm

and here is one which would be prohibited

http://flagspot.net/flags/ru-yev.html

I would like to hear your views about the matter regarding a ransom for the lives of some.

I don't understand the question.