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Thread: EU will make Turkey more anti Israel / USA

  1. #1
    Semsem
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    EU will make Turkey more anti Israel / USA

    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1093229944968

    The Region: Historical ironies
    By BARRY RUBIN



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    History is ironic. Finally, the European Union may be about to give Turkey the prize it has sought for a half-century: a promise of full membership in that organization and thus in Europe. Yet the prize is being given to an Islamic, partly Islamist, party rather than the secular nationalists who have long striven for that goal.

    If in December the EU finally assures Turkey of eventual admission and sets a timetable, the ruling party will benefit in consolidating a more Islamic Turkey. In short, after many years of stalling Turkish membership for fear of having an Islamic-oriented state inside Europe, the EU is actually promoting that outcome.

    A second irony is the results of Europe's "democratization" program in Turkey. Of course, Turkey was already a democracy but the EU demanded as a membership price further moves in that direction. Laws were revised expanding citizen rights, while the military's power was reduced. This lowered the army's ability to act as guardian of a secular republic, removing a major constraint on the government's Islamicizing program.

    The other lost restraint is the failure of the opposition. The Islamic government gained a two-thirds parliamentary majority with less than one-third of the vote. Four major political parties fell just under the minimum number of votes needed to gain seats, leaving only one opposition party represented.

    But the five more secular parties have failed to unite or even cooperate minimally against a dire threat to their interests and way of life. If this situation continues for another year, the ruling Justice and Development Party will probably elect the next president and be even more entrenched for a long stay in power.

    Another factor helping the incumbents is the improvement of the economy which, under the previous government, reached its lowest point in decades.

    A third irony is the unintended result of a pro-Turkey US policy. For years, when the EU was cold on Turkish membership and harshly critical of that country, Washington championed Turkey's right to enter the EU. Now, however, it is clear that success is damaging US-Turkey relations and strengthening those in Turkey most hostile to US interests.

    Turkey refused to join the war against Saddam Hussein last year due to a desire to avoid confrontation and distance itself from the EU mainstream, as well as a nationalist reaction against letting large numbers of US troops onto Turkish soil. What is now happening constitutes a "Europeanization" of Turkish thinking. Today, the Turkish government is more concerned with pleasing Paris rather than Washington.

    According to dominant EU thought today, real enemies do not exist in the world, at least not ones that cannot be moderated by diplomacy, trade, and dialogue. There is little sympathy for Israel, European identity is to be set by distinguishing itself from the US, and France is largely in the driver's seat. These are all simplifications, of course, but are also all ideas gaining growing influence in Turkey.


    Five or 10 years ago, Turkey's concept of the Middle East was as a place of dangerous foes who wanted to subvert Turkey through supporting a Kurdish rebellion or an Islamist orientation. Cooperation with the US and Israel was needed to combat threats from Syria, Iran, and Iraq.

    Today, Turkey has intimidated Syria into normal relations. While the Turks are worried about Iraq's instability, by deposing Saddam Hussein the US eased their problem on that front. And Turkey's Islamic government is striving for good relations with Iran's Islamist regime.

    As for Israel, not much has actually happened so far to end that bilateral alliance. The Turkish prime minister's nasty remarks are not so different from his predecessor's; and it is hardly surprising that Turkey must cut back on its military expenditure (though funds have been shifted to the EU to ensure support for Turkish membership).

    Especially significant, though ironic, is the affair in which the Turkish foreign minister leaked to an anti-Israel journalist a nonsensical story that Israel was plotting to establish a Kurdish state in northern Iraq.
    Once published in an American magazine, this story was then replayed in Turkey along with other anti-Israel demagoguery.

    There is, though, a limit to how far the Islamic government wants to go in creating a crisis with Israel. Trade is too important to disrupt. There is also an irony here, though, since the massive deal under which Israel was to import water from Turkey is now jeopardized. Why should Israel spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a project designed in large part to reward Turkey for its friendship?

    What can alter the course of events? Perhaps the Turks will get tired of a government that does not represent the thinking of the great majority of them, possibly a charismatic opposition leader will arise, or cooperation by the other parties might happen.

    Most intriguingly of all, perhaps there will be a revolt against Paris, a change of government in Germany, or a new French president in a couple of years who would modify EU policies. Already, however, the center of gravity for Turkey's foreign connections has shifted to Europe.

    The writer is director, Global Research in International Affairs (GLORIA) Center; editor, Middle East Review of International Affairs (MERIA); journal editor, Turkish Studies.

  2. #2
    Tatar
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    Three Turkish Deputies To Visit Israel

    Three Turkish Deputies To Visit Israel
    AFP: 8/30/2004
    ANKARA, Aug 30 (AFP) - Three deputies from Turkey`s national parliament left Ankara for Israel Monday to assess the state of bilateral relations, severely strained in recent months, the Anatolia news agency reported.

    "We want to go there ourselves to see the most recent changes with our own eyes," said one of the deputies, Omer Celik, in a press conference.

    All three deputies are thought to be close to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

    Relations between Israel and Turkey have been strained since May when Erdogan described Israeli actions in the occupied territories as "state terror," a comment Israel described as "extremely regrettable."

    Celik, however, insisted that there was no crisis in Israeli-Turkish relations despite the fallout from this sharply-worded exchange.

    During the three-day visit, the deputies from Turkey`s ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) are scheduled to meet with Israel`s Deputy Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom, Anatolia said. They are also set to meet with Palestinian officials.

    Turkey, a mainly Muslim but strictly secular nation, has been Israel`s main regional ally since 1996 when the two nations signed a military cooperation accord, provoking anger in Arab countries and Iran.

  3. #3
    Semsem
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    This is all very nice but it's clear that Erdogan wants to get away from the USA and Israel and switch relations to Europe and the Arabs / Iranians.

  4. #4
    Tatar
    Guest

    I grew up in Turkey

    From my observations I could tell that even fundamentalist Moslems respected Jews in Turkey. I think Erdogan's actions were aimed at getting a Turk elected to the head of Islamic Organization. Since that is done now, he will go back to improve relations.
    By the way getting a Turk elected as head of Islamic Organization will benefit the reformist.

    We also have to keep in mind that previous Islamic party came to power with less than 12% of the popular votes, unfortunately other parties split the votes and each got less than 10% of the votes.

    Erdogan's party got 34% of the votes, it is estimated that 20% of these votes came from people who were dissatisfied with the bickering of other parties.

    Personally, I think Turkey has to improve and maintain good relations with Israel for the security and economic benefit of both countries, and majority of Turks share my viewpoints.

  5. #5
    Semsem
    Guest
    <<I think Turkey has to improve and maintain good relations with Israel for the security and economic benefit of both countries, and majority of Turks share my viewpoints>>

    I am happy to hear this.

  6. #6
    mete
    Guest
    Being anti-someone might count for individuals but for states as we know the primary condition is mutual interests for alliance.
    That will make Turkey and Israel allies still for a long time, sometimes closer and sometimes less closer.

  7. #7
    kara
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Semsem
    This is all very nice but it's clear that Erdogan wants to get away from the USA and Israel and switch relations to Europe and the Arabs / Iranians.
    I dont think so. The one does not exclude the other.

  8. #8
    kara
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Tatar
    From my observations I could tell that even fundamentalist Moslems respected Jews in Turkey. I think Erdogan's actions were aimed at getting a Turk elected to the head of Islamic Organization. Since that is done now, he will go back to improve relations.
    By the way getting a Turk elected as head of Islamic Organization will benefit the reformist.

    We also have to keep in mind that previous Islamic party came to power with less than 12% of the popular votes, unfortunately other parties split the votes and each got less than 10% of the votes.

    Erdogan's party got 34% of the votes, it is estimated that 20% of these votes came from people who were dissatisfied with the bickering of other parties.

    Personally, I think Turkey has to improve and maintain good relations with Israel for the security and economic benefit of both countries, and majority of Turks share my viewpoints.
    Exactly ! Erdogan came to power as a protest-party. Not because turks suddenly became "islamized".

  9. #9
    goliath
    Guest
    [QUOTE=mete
    Being anti-someone might count for individuals but for states as we know the primary condition is mutual interests for alliance.
    That will make Turkey and Israel allies still for a long time, sometimes closer and sometimes less closer.
    Mutual interests doesn't mean simply money ?

    Turkey has received for this year 2.5 billion Euro.

    And Turkey will receive the same amount every year ( If EU still exist.).

  10. #10
    Elin
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by kara
    Exactly ! Erdogan came to power as a protest-party. Not because turks suddenly became "islamized".
    This is the thing that i've been trying to explain people here(though most of them don't want to understand that)

    You took the words right out of my mouth..

  11. #11
    kara
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by goliath
    Mutual interests doesn't mean simply money ?

    Turkey has received for this year 2.5 billion Euro.

    And Turkey will receive the same amount every year ( If EU still exist.).

    Shalom Goliath!

    Money is part of mutual interest - but not all. If money were all, Turkey would try to become the 51st state of the US :-) But even if it was "only money", I would like to stress that the EU started as an economic union, and even now when they have a common coin and money the political union is still not present... so "Money" is driving the union within...

    But apart from that, I think, as many turks do, that the Turkic-Israeli alliance makes sence as a barrier towards fanatic Islam. And that is a proof that Turkey doesnt make everything up in dollars. Our alliance with Israel is not exactly "profitable" as many arabs do no buy turkish goods because of the alliance. But we dont care :-)

    We turks would rater rather loose 5% of our GDP than 100% of our souls !

    Le-Hitra-Ot
    Kara from Turkey

  12. #12
    Pushtak21
    Guest
    Why does anyone care about Turkey being more anti-Israel/US once it joins the EU.

    First off, they will be the scape goat of all the EU. Afterall, to the french and Germans and now even the pope who wants Europe a Christian Europe....they are non other than muslims...and to the EU..like it or not..Muslims are bad... so i hope Turkey is willing to be faced with a lot of accusations.

    Moreover, if they go to bend over to the Arab/Iranians they have alot to answer with the way they mistreated both peoples when they had the ottoman.


    I would rather care about Turkey not becoming more Islamic as it is with Erodogan and his nice big mouth talking about genocide of the Palestinains and such when he has yet to recognize genocide against the Armenians.

    I just fear that turkey can be either an influence for Iran or the next Iran..pending if they find the right pragamactic leader or the right mullah...
    the cards will play this one...

  13. #13
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    Doesn't it seem that Ukraine will be incorporated first, followed by Bulgaria and Romania then Cyprus, Kosovo, Serbia, Macedonia....then Croatia then Turkey? In fact the smart money is that PLOistine would be EUinized before Turkey.

  14. #14
    Pushtak21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mediocrates
    Doesn't it seem that Ukraine will be incorporated first, followed by Bulgaria and Romania then Cyprus, Kosovo, Serbia, Macedonia....then Croatia then Turkey? In fact the smart money is that PLOistine would be EUinized before Turkey.

    Actually..
    Romania and Bulgaria are the top seed to get in....
    Cyprus is in now, no?

    Croatia is already in..so there Former Yugoslav comrades are soon to follow.


    Israel can surely make it in as well....

    The only pet peeve is that EU hates conflicts...and they really hate when one of there members is embroiled in a conflict.

    Turkey has a few conflicts on hand to deal with:
    1) Capital Punishment - Europes worst nightmare
    2) Kurds & Kurdistan - Whats the final solution
    3) Armenian Genocide - Recognize is and let it go....

  15. #15
    kara
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Pushtak21
    Actually..
    Romania and Bulgaria are the top seed to get in....
    Cyprus is in now, no?

    Croatia is already in..so there Former Yugoslav comrades are soon to follow.


    Israel can surely make it in as well....

    The only pet peeve is that EU hates conflicts...and they really hate when one of there members is embroiled in a conflict.

    Turkey has a few conflicts on hand to deal with:
    1) Capital Punishment - Europes worst nightmare
    2) Kurds & Kurdistan - Whats the final solution
    3) Armenian Genocide - Recognize is and let it go....

    Oh... let me recap

    1) The Capital Punishment is effectively dissolved. So... you see not an issue.

    2) Today kurds have all the rights of any other citizen in Turkey. We even had a semi-kurd as president Turgut Özal. Tell me, has France ever had a Corsiqan as a president? Or spain a basque? Or Britain an Irish ?

    3) According to Professor Bernard Lewis, who is George W.Bush's right hand on Middle Eastern affairs, the so-called genocide is "only the armenian version of the history". Turkey has repeatedly called for an independant investigation into these allegations, and Armenia has rejected. Turkey has opened up the Ottoman Archives - Armenia is still keeping theirs closed. Today, 108 members of the European Parliament has sent a letter to Armenia, urging president Kocharian to cooperate with the turks on a objective commission which is to examine the events of 1915. Why isnt Armenia collaborating? Because they are lying - and when that surfaces, and the world learns that they killed more than 520.000 civilian turks in the same period, they will no longer be the "darlings" of lobbyism!

    So you see - there really is no issue.

    The question is not wether Turkey is ready for the EU - it is whether the EU is ready for Turkey!

    Regards
    Kara

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