Where is the Noble Side of Norway and Other Nations?

Batman · 05-21-2002, 11:09 PM

What Are The Psychological/Cultural Reasons for Anti Israeli and Anti Semitism?

The article below demonstrate that even Kosher Slaughter is forbidden by Norwegian law. Why should this matter to the Norwegian government? What is this affliction called Anti-Semitism and Anti-Israel? What are the motivations behind some of the nations' policies and their great need to suppress the Jews and push for the Jews'/ Israel's demise in the most extreme ways.

The article:

Why I won't be seeing the fjords this summer
By Bennett M. Epstein May 20, 2002

http://www.israelinsider.com/views/a...views_0397.htm

On the heels of Mr. Roed-Larsen's now-infamous remark that Israel "ceded all moral ground" in Jenin, comes word from his home country of Norway that some supermarket chains have decided to place special identification stickers on products from Israel. Other Scandinavian countries may follow suit. The Norwegians say the stickers do not constitute a "boycott" of Israel; they just want their customers, who are overwhelmingly pro-Palestinian, to pay attention to where these products are produced.
Maybe the rest of us should run down to our local supermarkets with a pad of yellow "post-it" notes so that consumers of Norwegian salmon or Jarlsberg cheese can also pay attention to where those are produced. Stick them on the packages with a note: these products come from a place with a shameful past that continues to operate as a European free zone for Neo-Nazis and other right wing extremists.

Those asking the question of whether Europeans are anti-Israel because of Israel's actions in fighting terror, or because of their own latent anti-Semitism, should study the example of Norway.

Behind the current disclaimer of a boycott you will find that Norwegians are quite experienced at boycotting Israel. Norwegian labor unions have recently refused to off-load Israeli farm produce. Last year, a Norwegian "labor youth movement" organized a campaign to ban Israeli singers from the Eurovision song contest. Another Norwegian group has been boycotting Israeli oranges since the early 90s. This group, "Boikott Israel," rejuvenated by the latest "Intifada" to include a boycott of all Israeli commerce, denies on its website that it is anti-Semitic but states that its goal is the end Israel's "50 year occupation" of, and the return of all refugees to, a "free Palestine." Not anti-Semitic? In 1941, the graffiti on Jewish businesses in Oslo read: "Jews, go to Palestine." To campaign now in Norway to get the Jews out of "Palestine" seems anti-Semitic to me, if only by process of elimination.

Indeed, the roots of Norwegian boycotts of Israel run deep. Anti-Semitism has held a unique place in Norwegian politics since the 1930s when Vidkun Quisling, later the leader of a Nazi puppet government in Norway, formed the National Union Party. While many Norwegians fought with the Resistance, many became eager collaborators of the Nazis, including some 60,000 members of the National Union. Under its auspices, Norway formed its own branch of the SS and established academies sending hundreds of officers each year to the German military. One very active neo-Nazi group in Norway today is the Institutt for norsk okkupasjonshistorie (Institute for the History of Occupied Norway), composed of descendants of members of the Quisling party, the Waffen SS and others dedicated to cleansing their wartime reputation.

The aspect of the holocaust in Norway that was particularly Norwegian was the liquidation of Jewish property, much of which was divided up by Quisling and his followers. When the war ended, the Norwegian reparations commission shamelessly accepted doctored figures kept by the Quisling government in order to reject most Jewish claims and avoid paying others more than pennies on the dollar. Then in 1997 a new commission, appointed after a journalistic expose of the injustice of the first commission, issued a report, which actually recommended adherence to the earlier decision. However, a scandal erupted when it was discovered that an organization of former Nazis had provided a scholarship to a researcher on the new commission. The Norwegian prime minister ultimately intervened and compelled the government to accept a dissenting report.

Today, neo-Nazi propaganda, band concerts and other events are commonplace in Norway. Norway's ultra right-wing groups play host to gatherings of like-minded groups from Sweden and Denmark with little fear of official interference. More significantly, according to a report published by the Stephen Roth Institute of Tel Aviv University, the extreme right wing Progress Party is the second largest party in Norway with 25 out of 160 seats in the Parliament. Among other racist and anti-immigration views, this party advocates banning male circumcision. Schechita (kosher slaughter) is already forbidden by Norwegian law.

Given their past and present history, Norwegians are hardly qualified to accuse any other country of having ceded "moral ground." Their warning stickers on Israeli goods are the modern-day equivalent of painting "Joden" on the Jewish-owned businesses of Oslo and Trondheim in 1941. We needn't be reminded that after that, all of Norway's remaining Jews were deported to Auschwitz. Fewer than 30 survived the Holocaust.

I'm not the sort that usually pays attention to boycotts and counter-boycotts, because often you don't know who you are really hurting. But there is a good reason why I won't be buying Norwegian products any time soon, or cruising on the Norwegian Line. Their stickers have caught my attention.

Views expressed by the author do not necessarily reflect those of israelinsider.

Morpheus · 05-22-2002, 08:43 AM

The only reason why you shouldn't go to Norway is because it's do damn expensive. I have my doubts on the credibility of this article, but anyway, Norway has got enough tourists, if you don't want to visit a country just because there are some principles which you don't like, than you can indeed better stay at home in NY.

Batman · 05-22-2002, 08:49 AM

Perhaps if your bottom which most likely weighing your head down - was on the line and your life was at stake you'd have more sympathy and try to heed the warnings and not pretend (sounds like 60 years ago to me) that nothing of the sort is possible in precious good old anti-semitic Norway ...
Where have you been lately? Out, far out in those good old (Jewish) Einstein theoretical worlds of space!

Wake UP!!! You need COFFEE!

Batman · 05-31-2002, 07:07 AM

"Variety Magazine" yesterday May 29:

"Local presenters in Sweden and Belgium urged viewers not to cast votes for the Israeli entry, Sarit Haddad, in the Eurovision Song Contest.
Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, is incensed at their actions.

Apparently, some of Europe's cultural elite cannot forgive Israel for defending herself against homicide bombers and terrorists, said Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center.

The stench of appeasement of terrorism in Europe has now infected a competition that over the decades has given voice to songs of peace and hopeâ€, he continued.

Meanwhile, in France, Haddad received 10 out of a maximum 12 from French voters...

"ANTI-ISRAEL CAMPAIGN INFECTS EUROVISION COMPETITION

elke · 05-31-2002, 07:39 AM

Meanwhile, in France, Haddad received 10 out of a maximum 12 from French voters...

Rather peculiar, wouldn't you say? Would that be due to the "fallout" from the LePen fiasco?

**Mediocrates** · 05-31-2002, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by Morpheus
The only reason why you shouldn't go to Norway is because it's do damn expensive. I have my doubts on the credibility of this article, but anyway, Norway has got enough tourists, if you don't want to visit a country just because there are some principles which you don't like, than you can indeed better stay at home in NY.

Well I'm thinking of mounting a grass roots campaign to dissuede people from vacationing in Europe. How much of Europe's economy is tourism based? So far I've been able to convince 6 families to change their plans. That's 22 people who are spending their tourist dollars somewhere else like Australia, NZ and Mexico and domestic cruises instead. To the tune of ~$75,000.

Batman · 06-02-2002, 03:13 AM

Swedes, Belgians told not to vote for Israel in Eurovision

By Ha'aretz Staff Ha'aretz 26 May 2002

The Belgian and Swedish Jewish communities were left fuming by last night's Eurovision song contest, held in the Estonian capital of Tallinn, after their local presenters advised viewers not to vote for Israel's entry, Sarit Hadad.

Swedes watching the national TV1 station said that the presenters announced before Hadad appeared that Israel was not even meant to take part in the contest "because of what it is doing to the Palestinians."

The Swedish jury did not award any points to Israel. Belgian viewers were also advised not to vote for Israel. Its jury however awarded Hadad two points.

Hadad, who sang "Light a Candle," finished 12th with 37 points. The Latvian song "I Wanna" won the song contest.

Due to the Israeli song's ranking, Israel will participate in next year's contest, to be held in Latvia.

Yoav Ginai, who wrote the lyrics for the Israeli song, told Israel Radio that the delegation was very pleased with the result. "This is a great achievement in light of the difficult situation, and the political nature of the vote," Ginai told the radio.

The Israeli delegation, he said, encountered anti-Israel remarks during their week-long stay in Tallin. "We heard very unpleasant remarks at the hotel and during rehearsals," Ginai said.

Batman · 06-02-2002, 03:14 AM

Grass roots works!

rhodescholar · 06-03-2002, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by Mediocrates

Well I'm thinking of mounting a grass roots campaign to dissuede people from vacationing in Europe. How much of Europe's economy is tourism based? So far I've been able to convince 6 families to change their plans. That's 22 people who are spending their tourist dollars somewhere else like Australia, NZ and Mexico and domestic cruises instead. To the tune of ~$75,000.

One of the organizations that i belong to is considering focusing on Norway and the European Union in terms of its summer rally/protest activites.

If the EU and Norway does not back off of its current handling of Isreal, they will find themselves the target of a very ferocious and bitter campaign of which they have never seen.

I will not divulge specifics here, but suffice to say, the public in the US will b made aware of the hypocracy and cowardliness found in current european doctrine. I will exploit the US public's intrinsic dislike of european elitism to its fullest thru rallies, protests, media coverage, and many more aggressive activities.

Anyone who supprts israel and travels to europe or knowingly purchases products from the EU at this stage is a traitor, plain and simple.

L@mplighterM · 06-03-2002, 06:07 PM

Here I'll share an email:

Shalom
I have read your letters - yours and ____ - and although I agree to
some of your points - there're some matters that we do not agree about. One thing is that both you and Bennett Epstein have some historical errors, another that it's quite obvious that you and I don't live in the same world. Let me
explain
what I mean about this last statement.

I am a member of the Norwegian Labour Party and the
youth organization
AUF. I
am also a member of the Labour Union and I am an
active member of all
these
organizations. Over the last five years I have noticed
a growing anti -
Jewish
attitude in these organizations - the Labour Union in
particular.
Please notice
that I am using the term anti - Jewish and not
anti-Zionist,
anti-Semite or
anti Israeli - which seams to be the most popular
terms regarding this
issue.

I have met a lot of prejudice, the word ?Jew? is being
used as a swear
word -
at the same level as ?Satan?, old myths about the Jews
and capitalism
(not so
much) and there of course we have the story of the
brave little
Palestinian
people struggling every day to survive while the Jews
are trying to
wipe them
of the face of the earth.

Where does this come from? Of this I am very certain -
this is the work
of
people with a past from good old AKP (m-l) and with
the cooperation of
the
Norwegian press - who would love a good case so they
can sell more
copies of
their paper. Strategically placed people as reporters
and labour union
representatives or party members - they are trying to
influence the
opinion of
the people in Norway - and they have succeeded very
well. If this is
organized
or not - I don?t know but it sure looks that way. I
can send you a list
of more
than 20 old AKP (ml) members to prove my point. In the
1970?s many of
these
persons were also members of the different support
organizations for a
free
Palestine. They know what they are doing and this time
the media is on
their
side.

I have heard over and over again people comparing
Israel with
nazi-Germany -
and I am shocked about this. I have heard from a
newspaperman (who is
my
friend) that the Jews are exaggerating the numbers of
killed Jews in
WW2 - the
figure is not 6 millions, but much less. And this is
an educated man -
but with
sympatize to the Left.

I can go on and on about this. I don?t think that you
have noticed how
the
Norwegian Left has moved more and more towards an
anti-Jewish attitude.

We are not talking months, ____, we are talking about
years - I have
noticed
this from 1997.

The transport union has started their boycott of
Israeli goods. They
have in
Oslo been going through the grocery stores looking for
Israeli
products. They
found nothing - but if they had - they would have
boycotted these
stores. This
is one of the more influential labour unions - so do
not under estimate
what
they are and what they are capable of.

I have seen such a sticker once and several leaflets
spread by Red
Youth -
stating what they believe is the truth - and this is
not in our favour.

You are also wrong when you say ?There is no
widespread neo-Nazi
activity in
Norway today - because there are. I have a friend who
runs an internet
place
called "Nazism exposed" and he says that they are
stable and on the
move. There
are about 400 - 1000 active members - and I don?t call
them a ?very
tiny
fringe group?.

Then we have what you are saying about Vidkun
Quisling. There were
about 30
Norwegians that were executed by the Norwegian
government in the period
1945 -
1948. Quisling was quite right one of the first - but
the last was
Ragnar
Schancke in 1948 - after sitting on Death Row for more
than 3 years.

Yes - it?s true that a lot of people in Norway hated
Vidkun Quisling -
but he
had his followers as well - more than 50.000
registered as members in
the hay-
day?s of the party in 1942/43 and more than 100.000
persecuted by the
legal
authorities after the war.

In the last neo-nazi marching more than 300
participated and this was
last
year - not many years ago.

The leader of the Labour Union in Norway has urged a
boycott at several
occasions - the latest at the yearly meeting of the
union (yes - she
was a very
active AKP member in her youth).

You are quite right about The Progress Party of
Norway. The strongest
supporter of Israel in the Norwegian National Assembly
is Jan Simonsen
(ex-
Progressive Party).

I have at least two newspaper articles saying quite
the opposite about
feeling
safe in Norway - written by two Norwegian Jews.

Quisling was a product of his time - a time were both
political
authority,
press and the industry was against Jews. Do not think
that he came from
nowhere. And he was not the worst Jew hater in his
party - there were
several
that were much, much worse.

**Mediocrates** · 06-04-2002, 05:13 AM

The simplest explanation is also the truest. Israel was formed to create a safe haven for Jews fleeing Europe. That the process hasn't ended yet is not entirely important. The creation of the state of Israel was based in part in the treatment of Jews in Europe. All over Europe. Not just Bavaria or Austria or Vichy France or Poland. All of Europe. The only reason we we have any sort of discussion revolving around places like Norway is because there are about 1100 Jews living the whole country. With numbers that small no nation however virulent in these modern and progressive days is going to mount a pogrom against 1100 people. So they snipe and cower and complain to the press and hang nasty signs and talk about how ****ing evolved they are.

Simply put, Europe has ended as a place for Jews to maintain a community. But in the meantime Oz and NZ have Jewish communities that albeit small, have doubled in size in the last 20 years.

We should look at the current situation as a transitional one and with an ultimately safe and secure Israel, there should in the next generation or two no longer be any need for Jews to reside in Europe. Then all the Europeans can go back to public Jew hating and proclamations in a continent absent of Jews. The level of antisemitism will explode of course since the worst form of it exists in places with no Jews, but there will be few to zero Jews who might suffer for it.

Batman · 06-04-2002, 07:27 AM

Why I won't be seeing the fjords this summer
THIS HAS BEEN CIRCULATING ON THE NET SINCE MAY 20

On the heels of Mr. Roed-Larsen's now-infamous remark that Israel "ceded all moral ground" in Jenin, comes word from his home country of Norway that some supermarket chains have decided to place special identification stickers on
products from Israel. Other Scandinavian countries may follow suit. The Norwegians say the stickers do not constitute a "boycott" of Israel; they just want their customers, who are overwhelmingly pro-Palestinian, to pay attention to where these products are produced. Maybe the rest of us should
run down to our local supermarkets with a pad of yellow "post-it" notes so that consumers of Norwegian salmon or Jarlsberg cheese can also pay attention to where those are produced. Stick them on the packages with a note: these products come from a place with a shameful past that continues to operate as
a European free zone for Neo-Nazis and other right wing extremists.

Those asking the question of whether Europeans are anti-Israel because of Israel's actions in fighting terror, or because of their own latent anti-Semitism, should study the example of Norway.

Behind the current disclaimer of a boycott you will find that Norwegians are quite experienced at boycotting Israel. Norwegian labor unions have recently refused to off-load Israeli farm produce. Last year, a Norwegian "labor youth
movement" organized a campaign to ban Israeli singers from the Eurovision song contest. Another Norwegian group has been boycotting Israeli oranges since the early 90s. This group, "Boikott Israel," rejuvenated by the latest
"Intifada" to include a boycott of all Israeli commerce, denies on its website that it is anti-Semitic but states that its goal is the end
Israel's "50 year occupation" of, and the return of all refugees to, a "free Palestine." Not anti-Semitic? In 1941, the graffiti on Jewish businesses in Oslo read: "Jews, go to Palestine." To campaign now in Norway to get the Jews out of "Palestine" seems anti-Semitic to me, if only by process of elimination.

Indeed, the roots of Norwegian boycotts of Israel run deep. Anti-Semitism has held a unique place in Norwegian politics since the 1930s when Vidkun Quisling, later the leader of a Nazi puppet government in Norway, formed the National Union Party. While many Norwegians fought with the Resistance, many
became eager collaborators of the Nazis, including some 60,000 members of the National Union. Under its auspices, Norway formed its own branch of the SS and established academies sending hundreds of officers each year to the
German military. One very active neo-Nazis group in Norway today is the Institute for norsk okkupasjonshistorie (Institute for the History of Occupied Norway), composed of descendants of members of the Quisling party, the Waffen SS and others dedicated to cleansing their wartime reputation.

The aspect of the holocaust in Norway that was particularly Norwegian was the liquidation of Jewish property, much of which was divided up by Quisling and his followers. When the war ended, the Norwegian reparations commission
shamelessly accepted doctored figures kept by the Quisling government in order to reject most Jewish claims and avoid paying others more than pennies on the dollar. Then in 1997 a new commission, appointed after a journalistic
expose of the injustice of the first commission, issued a report, which actually recommended adherence to the earlier decision. However, a scandal erupted when it was discovered that an organization of former Nazis had provided a scholarship to a researcher on the new commission. The Norwegian
prime minister ultimately intervened and compelled the government to accept a dissenting report.

Today, neo-Nazis propaganda, band concerts and other events are commonplace in Norway. Norway's ultra right-wing groups play host to gatherings of like-minded groups from Sweden and Denmark with little fear of official I interference. More significantly, according to a report published by the Stephen Roth Institute of Tel Aviv University, the extreme right wing Progress Party is the second largest party in Norway with 25 out of 160 seats
in the Parliament. Among other racist and anti-immigration views, this party advocates banning male circumcision. Schechita (kosher slaughter) is already forbidden by Norwegian law.

Given their past and present history, Norwegians are hardly qualified to accuse any other country of having ceded "moral ground." Their warning stickers on Israeli goods are the modern-day equivalent of painting "Joden" on the Jewish-owned businesses of Oslo and Trondheim in 1941. We needn't be
reminded that after that, all of Norway's remaining Jews were deported to Auschwitz. Fewer than 30 survived the Holocaust.

I'm not the sort that usually pays attention to boycotts and
counter-boycotts, because often you don't know who you are really hurting. But there is a good reason why I won't be buying Norwegian products any time soon, or cruising on the Norwegian Line. Their stickers have caught my attention.

Vic · 06-04-2002, 05:28 PM

From two personal sites from Norway:

Norwegian Unions declared hostile to Israel
http://home.online.no/~vvalberg/arch...ile_to_Israel_

Ridiculous Norwegian Reds Actually Taken Seriously by Government
http://www.fredriknorman.com/archive...486.php#000486

cerulean · 06-20-2002, 01:32 AM

Someone posted his personal correspondence regarding the boycott issue and related topics with the Norwegian government on his web site:

http://jlapidus.tripod.com/norway

It looks like the trade unions are indeed calling for a boycott of Israeli goods, but the government is not. Also Coop Norge is not calling for a boycott, contrary to some reports.

http://www.coop.no/om_coop/nyheter/19692.htm

The net result of reading that correspondence was not entirely reassuring.

Vic · 06-20-2002, 01:40 AM

I have seen and heard more correspondencies, discussions etc. on the issues than I can count. They have all one problem in common: the Jewish/Israeli side makes reproaches but never presents simple and realistic demands. Given the communication culture in this part of the world, an invariable drawback: one should always be able to tell the other side not only how it shouldn't act, how much it hurts your (but never it's own) interests etc., but also present your expectations in a clear way - and stick to them.