As a public service (since I believe you're on Olivier's ignore list) I'll repost this
Originally Posted by Canajew
Home | As a public service (since I believe you're on Olivier's ignore list) I'll repost this
thanks. But from what I understand, now that I am a moderator he can't put me on ignore anymore. Over time, he will see his original perceptions were mistaken.
Because many palestinians believe them and will seek 'revenge' one way or another. If they can be made to believe there was no "zionist conspiracy" or whatever ... that's better for peace. This issue has a considerable importance.
Olivier is right. It is an uphill battel to convince them of anything, to be sure, but at some point in the future everybody will have to try to get along. to a large extent, there is no real way to convince many of them of anything. they believe the Jews are responsible for whatever evil they cannot explain or would not like to address, and that is the end of the story. But they don't stop there, and they generally try to convince everyone else that they are correct. Much of what they have to say will come out in "unbiased" media publications like Le Merde, and from there, if not properly countered, because these publications are so "unbiased" and not agenda driven (chuckle) these fallacies enter the wider public consciousness.
Just like the fake Jenin massacre and the fake palestinian refugees, there are sizable proportions of the general wider population who believe wholeheartedly in the delusional positions adopted by the most intractible of islamists and pro-palestinians.
This would just be another fake something to add to the big long list, but, as can be seen with the laughable ICJ decision, over time people start forgetting the reservations they had with the position of the Palestinians and their international supporters and move towards believing the myths to be true.
About "haters" People who throw insults at my country are haters. People who do that repeatedly, with hateful, vicious words are haters too.
Haters who are beyond a certain limit are out of the equation since they make it to my ignore list. Failing that, taking part in this forum would just be as fruitless as unbearable for me.
Now for the everyone, this is wrong ... there are many here who disagree with me, who are doing this without piling up insults at me or my country ....and it's a pleasure to debate with them. Some posters here have the ability to stay quite polite : mira, mil, michael, phillin, KSO, Andak and you eyl .... to quote a few and this is true however controversial and heated our exchanges are.
I'm reminded of the Johns Hopkins experiment on delusions where researchers took 3 people who all believed they were Jesus and made them live closely with one another in the hope that they would 'realize' that believing oneself to be Jesus was an impossibility. At the end of several months each person was interviewed in isolation and each of the three concluded that he was Jesus and the other two people were delusional.
The great beauty of all conspiracy theories is that lack of any proof actually makes the case stronger. The French turned over Arafat's 'records' to a zealot who is a professional demagogue and liar. He immediately demanded the right to begin interviewing people on his own without restraint or monitoring. He is there to do the following:
- Drag his heels to sow confusion.
- Obscure any potentially embarassing disclosures.
- Blame the Jews wherever possible.
And his parrots here and elsewhere will cheer.
not really true at all, but regardless there is still no need to comment on it and use it as an ad hominem to avoid discussions.
People can have legitimate issues with French policy, with french governance, and even with French culture without making them "haters". You treat the US far worse in your discourse than they do France. Difference is you perceive your criticisms of the US to be legitimate and their criticisms of France to be illigitimate. With respect, this legitimacy decision is not yours to make.
You need to develop a thicker skin with respect to people's attitudes towards france. You want france to assume a larger role in the world going forward, you must understand that criticisms and comments are going to get worse over time, not better. Look at the US for a perfect example. Accused of being the worst reincarnation of evil since Hitler.
Buit regardless, calling people haters does not advance discussion, and in fact detracts from it because you focus on the individual rather than the argument.
you should broaden your perspcetive. While much of what they say you may disagree with, and I'm sure some of it is just ridiculous, often it takes external critics to point things out that you were not aware of. none of us are omniscient (yet), and it is remarkable what sort of perspective you can get from really immersing yourself in hostile discussion.Haters who are beyond a certain limit are out of the equation since they make it to my ignore list. Taking part in this forum would just be as fruitless as unbearable for me.
and that's fine. You can compliment them for their debate style. But don't insult everyone else. And unless you are prepared to stop any and all criticisms and insults of the US (and Israel), you should not demand anyone do the same for your country.Now for the everyone, there are many people who disagree with me, who are doing this without piling up insults at me or my country ....and it's a pleasure to debate with them. Some posters here have the ability to stay quite polite : mira, mil, eyl .... , however controversial our exchanges.
Do you honestly think France is the state equivalent of Mother Theresa of the modern world, or do you accept that there are many things about France, French geopolitics, and French society that are legitimate subjects of criticism and discussion?
and why, for me not to be a "french hater" do I have to treat Charles DeGaulle with a deferrence I would not give to the pope. if you remember what set you off all those months ago, it was simply that I called DeGaulle a slimeball or words to that effect. It has always been my perception that DeGaulle used the free west to advance his own cause of agining power and popularity and then used that to thumb his nose at the west and act against its interests.
Just because he is a sacred cow for you doesn't make him an illigitimate topic for discussion. We can criticise the behaviour and policies of Ariel Sharon, George Bush, Richard Nixon, and even the Prophet Mohhamed, in language substantially stronger than calling any of them slimeballs, and I see no reaosn why DeGaulle should be treated any differently.
By the way does anyone doubt that if Arafat had an adult son instead of a teenage daughter of dubious parentage that he'd have just passed his rulership down genetically like the other Arab states?
The title I gave to the thread
"the real cause of the death of Arafat"
as been changed to
"Politicizing the Yasser Arafat's cause of death; or, what we don't know can hurt you."
this change is completely inappropriate and has been done with out my consent .. without even telling me.
- I find this title confusing and not in line with what I mean.
- I fail to see how I'm breaking forum rules with this title.
- I do not appreciate to be turned into the toy of some untraceable moderator who puts words into my mouth without my consent.
please clarify forum policy on freedom of expression....
deleted by me (me is me, not the one who is pretending to be me)
Last edited by Olivier; 11-24-2004 at 12:44 PM.
Olivier the French toy! Arafat misses you, except you probably wouldn't like it where he is right now.
If no one else minds, I'll respond.please clarify forum policy on freedom of expression....
Most of us, on Israel Forum, appreciate most opinions, except for the backstabbing, Arafat-loving, moslem-arse-kissing, ungrateful French. I hope that this clears the air for you and makes you feel so much better.
I wonder which set of fabricated records were used. It is my understanding that they had a choice to alter a copy of the records to show that Arafat died of "shaken baby syndrome" or "Sudden Infant Death Syndrome" or Arafat died after eating an overdose of Gefilte fish.
Either way, we all know that Arafat DIED OF AIDS! Arafat died because he bent over too many times for his Arab buddies.
It is my understanding that because Arafat was so exceedingly ugly, one of his Arab male lovers used to confuse which end of Arafat was his face.
I think that this change is very appropriate because it reflects exactly what you are doing here.Originally Posted by Olivier
The title I gave to the thread
"the real cause of the death of Arafat"
as been changed to
"Politicizing the Yasser Arafat's cause of death; or, what we don't know can hurt you."
this change is completely inappropriate and has been done with out my consent .. without even telling me.
One has to wonder why Olivier is so touchy about having a title changed. The contributions from members are so much more important than the original, and possibly outdated title, anyway.
I openly invite the management to change any title that I ever create, at any time, for any reason.
I think that Olivier just jumps at the chance to criticize anything related to Jews or Israel, and this was just another joyous occasion for him.
Olivier, who is very touchy, already has many members on his ignore list. Pretty soon, the only ones that Olivier will be reading will be his fellow antiSemites.
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