U.N. Peace Keeping Force in the region

[Skogan]

Takeo makes a good point regarding the security of Israel if a Palistinian state were allowed. Namely, he included a foreign military presence. I'll assume he was refering to a U.N. lead peace keeping force.

Why does Israel reject the notion of a peace keeping force in the region? I know there are talks of allowing CIA monitors (which I think is a HORRIBLE idea), but why not a U.N. force there to provide a substantive defense of Israel, so it no longer has the need to hold the land? It seems to me that Israel would get all the security benefits without having to face the world criticism and economic hardships that keeping their own force there causes. Also, it would take away a great deal of the terrorist arguement for hostility against Israel.

So I ask again, what is the Israeli reasoning for not allowing a large U.N. peacekeeping force in the occupied territory?


Skogan

[Mediocrates]

Because they are best ineffective and at worst, another arm of politics of the UN itself. As a fighting force it isn't flexible or fast enough, their chain of command is a slow garbled mess and they exist more often than not to be recorders of facts instead of active participants.

For example their continued presence in the north around the Saba Farms area hasn't ameliorated the shelling. Hezbollah just shoots over their heads and the IDF shoots back.

[Skogan]

Good point. I also remember the U.N. force in Somalia had Pakistani troops designated to provide backup support if we had a "blackhawk down" during the warlord snatching mission. Which they were ready to do... a few days after we needed em.

Still, it seems in other parts of the world, U.N. forces provide a deterent, but you may be right.



Skogan

[takeo]

the un should be the direction, but why not put the troops on the ground under direct NATO- or US-leadership as in Bosnia or Kosovo?
anyway the troops near the libanese border have no real autority to do something or to shoot, so this is not a good example.
The troops near the israeli border should be able to controll the border area and shoot armed intruders.
ps: the somalian operation failed mostly because of the us-policy to kill and hunt all somalian leaders and making lots of ennemies instead of cooperating.

[Skogan]

Not to hijack my own thread, but the somali mission failed because the pakistanis were selling there intel to the warlords, and Clinton refused the Generals request for armored personal carriers in the event we had to go into the city. He felt it would look like we were escalating the war, (so much for the lesson of vietnam, don't let the politicians fight the war.)

The U.S. had to go after Adid, because he was hijacking all the food that was being distributed, taking it away from the population and hording it for his men. (Feeding the populace was the whole reason we were there in the first place.)

But back to the main point. I'll look for something on the net that explain Israels position on this (if anyone knows a link, feel free to post it.) I do think peace keeping forces have been useful in the past, and it would be one thing for the Arabs to attack Israel, but an attack against a unified Nato presence doesn't seem realistic. Not if they knew we were intent on a response.


Skogan

[takeo]

I think the whole idea of going after Aideed was wrong, you could have convinced him by other means. ($$$) instead of making it an all-out war of somalia against th US.

in general israel is against foreign troops because that would mean israel would once and for all loose the possibility to reoccupy the WB and gaza.

[Iori Yagami]

That`s just plain bull ****. As Mediocrates said, UN troops are inaffective at best. There are in deed UN troops patrolling southern Lebanon, yet they do nothing to stop the Hizbollah shelling of northern Israel. They were there when 3 soldiers were abducted by Hizbollah terrorrists, yet they have done nothing to stop it; even better, they filmed it on tape. There was a nice UNRWA building in Jenin, in which terrorrists were hiding.
BTW, there are foreign peace keepers in Hebron, it doesn`t stop Israel from reoccupying the city.

EDIT : wow, even krap is censored here (spelling mistake is intentional)? Heh

[takeo]

krap indeed

the peace-keepers in hebron and southern libanon have a very limited task, because israel didn't want them to effectively conduct military operations or prevent israeli military operations, that prevents them from taking real actions, there are also too few of them, what i am talking about is a massive military operation as in bosnia or kosovo near the borders.

[Iori Yagami]

Israel can`t "want them to effectively conduct military yada yada yada" at southern Lebanon, or don`t want them to "yada yada yada" at southern Lebanon, because Israel doesn`t control southern Lebanon. Anyway, I`m not going to post my whole stance about the un forces, I believe that Mediocrate`s summs it pretty well.
And I wonder, what have you got to say about the UNRWA building in jenin?

[takeo]

Nothing, i don't know enough about it.
However the un-forces were in southern Libanon when it was still occupied by israel and they don't have enough capacity and possibilities to be really effective.

[Vic]

Originally posted by takeo
[...] the un-forces [...] don't have enough capacity and possibilities to be really effective.

Funny, isn't it?
Why not stock them up if the UN is seriously interested in maintaining peace?

[takeo]

because that wasn't allowed according to their official mission.
Maybe because israel didn't want it, or the US, or the libanese, anyway any foreign presence in Palestine/israeli border should have more capacities, a well determined duty and be more impressing to make a substantial contribution in maintaining peace. (pretty much as in Kosovo). I think the UN has learned from its mistakes in other countries such as Ruanda or Bosnia.

[Vic]

Originally posted by takeo
because that wasn't allowed according to their official mission.
Maybe because israel didn't want it, or the US, or the libanese, anyway any foreign presence in Palestine/israeli border should have more capacities, a well determined duty and be more impressing to make a substantial contribution in maintaining peace. (pretty much as in Kosovo). I think the UN has learned from its mistakes in other countries such as Ruanda or Bosnia.

Source?

[takeo]

source of what?

[Vic]

Originally posted by takeo
source of what?

Of the information in your post #12