Palestinians & Mental Illness

ibrodsky · 05-23-2002, 03:42 PM

Where do they find so many people willing to blow themselves up just to kill Jews?

It shows what confused times we live in: most of the world believes that Palestinians kill themselves not because they are militant Islamic nut cases, but because they are "desperate."

I can see dying to protect loved ones. Or even dying fighting for a cause. Not because I would wake up one morning and decide to die -- but only because dying was a necessary risk.

The Palestinians actually believe that good things will happen to them for killing themselves and others. (To some extent they are right: their families will receive what to them is a small fortune from various Arab despots.)

It apparently never occurs to most Palestinian suicide bombers to question:

1. Is there really a Paradise to go to when you die?
2. Do those who die blowing up others get admitted to Paradise?

I believe a large number of Palestinians are mentally ill. What they need is not a state, but a large padded cell.

Skogan · 05-23-2002, 03:57 PM

I don't know about the mentally ill part, but you do make a really good point. If desperatation is the root cause, why don't they use more effective means? Certainly, murder is more productive then a murder-suicide. It was either George Patton, or George C. Scott (they are one in the same to me) who said the object of war isn't to die for your country, it's to make the other poor son-of-a-b*tch die for his country. To demand that you sacrifice yourself for your cause is not a sign of desperation, but of zealotness. It does tend to show that they aren't acting rationaly, but out of a religious zeal.

Interesting

Skogan

Gatorade · 05-23-2002, 04:58 PM

In some cases haven't Arab-Israelis died in the attacks? I wonder if they were Muslim, wouldn't they go to the same heaven as the bombers? I couldn't see the victims being happy up in heaven with the bombers.

L@mplighterM · 05-23-2002, 06:24 PM

I?ve read several reports from eminent physiatrists (American) and their medical opinion is that these suicide bombers aren?t mentally ill.

Strange!

I think shrinks are mental.

ibrodsky · 05-23-2002, 10:25 PM

I can't think of too many things more deserving than suicide bombing to be called "mental illness." It is pure madness.

Do the Palestinians think they will win using this tactic? (But what will the suicides have won when it is all over?)

I reject the idea that religious fanaticism somehow means this is not mental illness. It is hard to imagine more irrational behavior.
If the Palestinians did somehow win using this method, what would their legacy be among sane humans?

Unfortunately, humans are often slow to see the wisdom or folly of their deeds. I have no doubt that some day -- perhaps one hundred years from now -- even the Arabs will realize that this behavior was evil, sick, and just plain dumb.

Who knows -- in one hundred years the Arabs may be frequent victims of the suicide bombing they spawned. The bombs will be even more effective. Perhaps they will be exterminated by terrorists who just couldn't take anymore oppression and brutality.

Imagine if women forced to wear veils were to carry bombs under them to kill their oppressors...

kauffner · 05-23-2002, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by ibrodsky
It apparently never occurs to most Palestinian suicide bombers to question:

1. Is there really a Paradise to go to when you die?
2. Do those who die blowing up others get admitted to Paradise?

I've read news reports about the suicide terrorists and a lot of them are not even religious. After each bombing, the Arabs hail the latest suicide terrorist as a hero and put his or her picture up in every classroom. Their bereaved families receive large bounties and the adulation of their neighbours. The schools indoctrinate Palestinian children to believe that killing Jews in the noblest thing they can do with their lives. With incentives like that, suicide terrorism becomes almost rational.

Iori Yagami · 05-23-2002, 11:03 PM

There was a very nice debate on that matter in the Israeli TV a few days ago... One of the local reporters has shown details of the few latest homicide bombers. The conclusions were rather interesting : 4 of them were ill, had cancer and other deadly diseases. A few others were robbers. And the women that blew up were banned by their local society because of adultery/divorcement. It seems as if the act of the bombing was a way to "honorally return" to the palestinian society for the robbers and the women.

ibrodsky · 05-24-2002, 06:35 AM

Originally posted by Iori Yagami
There was a very nice debate on that matter in the Israeli TV a few days ago... One of the local reporters has shown details of the few latest homicide bombers. The conclusions were rather interesting : 4 of them were ill, had cancer and other deadly diseases. A few others were robbers. And the women that blew up were banned by their local society because of adultery/divorcement. It seems as if the act of the bombing was a way to "honorally return" to the palestinian society for the robbers and the women.

If this is accurate then I suppose one could say they are not mentally ill. It appears they are trying to win the honor of their peers in otherwise hopeless situations.

But there have been dozens of suicide bombers. Do we really know whether the majority fall in these categories?

cerulean · 05-24-2002, 07:56 AM

I had read the same thing about women suicide bombers. Being a suicide bomber is an alternative to an honor killing in some cases. (That then leads to the question of whether honor killing is a sign of mental illness in a society.)

Another article I had read quoted an Arab terrorist as saying that they choose only the best people to be suicide bombers. They have to choose non-depressed people because the Koran is against committing suicide. Thus, they have to choose people who want to live in order for their deaths to be martyrdrom. However, I'm more inclined to believe the Israeli TV report listed above.

In an evolutionary psychology discussion forum, there has been discussion of suicide bombers. The general idea there is that the suicide bombers are demonstrating altruistic behavior in sacrificing themselves for their kin. (This is apart from any moral issue.)

Iori Yagami · 05-24-2002, 09:43 AM

Well, I think that blowing yourself up, even if you are trying to get the honour of your peers, already shows that you are pretty darn nuts. But it`s just me.

**Mediocrates** · 05-24-2002, 10:09 AM

You don't argue with a mad dog. You put it down. Why it got sick is not relevant.

Vic · 05-24-2002, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by Mediocrates
You don't argue with a mad dog. You put it down. Why it got sick is not relevant.

It is - for proper vaccination of healthy dogs.

**Mediocrates** · 05-24-2002, 10:26 AM

That's after the fact, no? Hoof and mouth? Mad cow?

Vic · 05-24-2002, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by Mediocrates
That's after the fact, no? Hoof and mouth? Mad cow?

There is such a thing as preventive vaccination, too. I am not a veterinarian, but it can hardly be different from humans: polio, measles etc.

Back to the topic and your original metapher - it never hurts to:
a) recognize the mad dog before it bites
b) prevent the spread of rabies

And since we are talking of mental illness, what about accountability? Does this imply that the perpetrators of the bombings are not fully responsible for their deeds? And what about the ones who train them, provide the bombs etc. and then live happily ever after?

cerulean · 05-25-2002, 10:31 AM

I'm sure some parents are opposed to it. However, I'm sure there's also propaganda in this article too. The article quotes a Palestinian poll saying support for suicide bombers has dropped from 58% to 52%.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/3335497.htm