One of the best articles about anti-Semitism, christian perpective

[Toga]

I take exception to the claims that librals are all jew haters. I am libral and I also chose to be jewish and I support Israel 100% .

Well..you are a tiny minority. Now that we are involved in Iraq and suffer from the suicide bombings, roadside explosions, etc. we understand what Israel has been going through. The methods they use against the USA they have used against Israel for decades. For the USA Iraq is a strategic battleground but it is not vital. Israel is not as lucky as the USA. Israel must defear the Palestinian Arab terrorism to survive.

The left has lost its conscience. When it comes to Israel the facts have become irrelevant.

[Toga]

Including myself (I'm christian), except for my great love for Israel and Israelis. I just wanted to show that there are christians who care and love Israelis. It's in the Holy Bible and whoever doesen't see it is blind.

You may feel differently but as the whole the Christian Europe is responsible for the slaughter of millions of Jews.

So what if the Euros claim to be secular?

The current European attitude toward Israel and the atrocious voting record against Israel at the UN, different international bodies is an extension of the natural European hatred of Jews. They have been afflicted with that disease for the last 2000 years. Even Prince Harry picked a Nazi uniform for the costume party. It is a natural.

[Mediocrates]

The left has lost its conscience. When it comes to Israel the facts have become irrelevant.

Maybe for some, but even your own Pat Buchanans are starting to speak out against the Iraq war and about the poor treatment of veterans. It looks like the ideological ruling right is so mired in their own convictions they will never admit they made a mistake no matter the cost.

In as much as the 'right' has anything political to say about Israel, it's hard to nail down. On the one hand they want to talk about their unhesitant support of Israel at the same time they march lockstep with whatever the administration says, much of which is very confusing, vague, vacillating and not supportive of Israel. Of course it's hard to tell what the right thinks support is? Bush is the 1st president to demand an independent PLO state. He demanded a rollback in Yesha housing development. He demanded Israel break military ties with China. He has done little to block the sale of state of the art Russian SRBM's and SA-18 AA missiles to Syria. He has done little to bloc Iranian management of Hezbollah. He has invited Abbas to the White House. He has spoken out about the Security Fence. He has twiddled his thumbs over the FBI witchhunt of AIPAC. He has offered zero in the way of financial incentives to relocate Gaza Jews. He has applied oblique pressure on Israel to announce its nuclear plans. The truth is, when the administration sees dollars flowing back to the US in the form of aid that must be spent in the US on US defense contractors supplying defense tech to Israel, it is 'supportive'. Last year's ramp up of 106 advanced F-16's is a good example. Israeli development of US Army antitank missiles is another.

So I really don't want to hear about 'lost their concience' when the admin cynically uses its Israel relationship for pork barrel politics.

[Mira]

I see what you're saying and I think Christians should take an interest in Israel but no more so than other world issues.

Jesus didn't set out to create a new religion. So when I read his words, I read them the way a Jew would. Both Judaism and Christianity are world faiths. The message is supposed to be universal. Jews are commanded to heal the entire world and at the same time be a light to the other nations. That means that the message is universal, but the example starts at home. A key tenant within Judaism is that all Jews are responsible for other Jews. This is why when a Jew is harrased in France or murdered on the streets of Israel, something is stirred in all other Jews around the world and they rise to defend them. That doesn't preclude a Jew from championing the rights of other peoples, and history up to this day shows that Jews have always been on the forefront in fighting for civil rights and justice for everyone. But again, the example starts at home and when you read text, you must apply the text on multiple levels. If a Christian's heart and soul doesn't stir when a member of the house of Israel is persecuted, then you are not a member. If a Christian does not come to the aid of a Jew in trouble, then you are not a member. You are not truly grafted in. Same can be said of Jews. If you do not believe that you are responsible for the care of other Jews, then you place yourself outside the fold of the House of Israel. Ambivalence is not an option when your fellows are in trouble.

[Luke90]

If a Christian's heart and soul doesn't stir when a member of the house of Israel is persecuted

Couldn't you say the same about anyone being persecuted?
I think the message is more universal than that.

[Mira]

Couldn't you say the same about anyone being persecuted?
I think the message is more universal than that.

I'm not sure that I can explain it any other way. The message operates on more than one level. Jesus was not a humanist, he was a Jew. Jews are commanded to heal the entire world, but the example for the world starts at home. So what do you think it means to be grafted into the House of Israel?

[Toga]

Maybe for some, but even your own Pat Buchanans are starting to speak out against the Iraq war and about the poor treatment of veterans. It looks like the ideological ruling right is so mired in their own convictions they will never admit they made a mistake no matter the cost.

In as much as the 'right' has anything political to say about Israel, it's hard to nail down. On the one hand they want to talk about their unhesitant support of Israel at the same time they march lockstep with whatever the administration says, much of which is very confusing, vague, vacillating and not supportive of Israel. Of course it's hard to tell what the right thinks support is? Bush is the 1st president to demand an independent PLO state. He demanded a rollback in Yesha housing development. He demanded Israel break military ties with China. He has done little to block the sale of state of the art Russian SRBM's and SA-18 AA missiles to Syria. He has done little to bloc Iranian management of Hezbollah. He has invited Abbas to the White House. He has spoken out about the Security Fence. He has twiddled his thumbs over the FBI witchhunt of AIPAC. He has offered zero in the way of financial incentives to relocate Gaza Jews. He has applied oblique pressure on Israel to announce its nuclear plans. The truth is, when the administration sees dollars flowing back to the US in the form of aid that must be spent in the US on US defense contractors supplying defense tech to Israel, it is 'supportive'. Last year's ramp up of 106 advanced F-16's is a good example. Israeli development of US Army antitank missiles is another.

So I really don't want to hear about 'lost their concience' when the admin cynically uses its Israel relationship for pork barrel politics.

When push comes to shove it is the USA that stands behind Israel in the Security Council. It the only country that protects Israel against the European/French-like vultures hovering over the Jewish state. Israel does not have a better friend than America. Therefore, Israel has integrated the interests of the US in its national strategy but on occasion the interests of the two states are not aligned. That is when the problems arise. Fortunately, it does not happen too often.

[Toga]

That doesn't preclude a Jew from championing the rights of other peoples, and history up to this day shows that Jews have always been on the forefront in fighting for civil rights and justice for everyone.

"Jews have always been on the forefront in fighting for civil rights and justice for everyone" and paid dearly for it. They have always blamed the Jews for everything. Whatever the Jews do or don't do the Jews get blamed.

1. We killed Jesus
2. We caused the famine in Europe
3. We brought in the black plague
4. We invented communism
5. We forced the Nazis to annihilate us
6. We forced the Arab states to kick us out
7. We induce some Arabs to commit murder

The list is endless.

[Luke90]

So what do you think it means to be grafted into the House of Israel?

I think that passage is more about salvation than about how to relate to the Jews.

[Mediocrates]

When push comes to shove it is the USA that stands behind Israel in the Security Council. It the only country that protects Israel against the European/French-like vultures hovering over the Jewish state. Israel does not have a better friend than America. Therefore, Israel has integrated the interests of the US in its national strategy but on occasion the interests of the two states are not aligned. That is when the problems arise. Fortunately, it does not happen too often.

Did you read my list or are you waiting for Moshiach to save us? Better they should take matters into their own hands and make themselves indispensible to other countries as well. Sitting at the gates of the UNSC and hoping for America is a little like the 12 spies, no?

[Mira]

I think that passage is more about salvation than about how to relate to the Jews.

Explain how you interpret it then.

[Mira]

"Jews have always been on the forefront in fighting for civil rights and justice for everyone" and paid dearly for it. They have always blamed the Jews for everything. Whatever the Jews do or don't do the Jews get blamed.

1. We killed Jesus
2. We caused the famine in Europe
3. We brought in the black plague
4. We invented communism
5. We forced the Nazis to annihilate us
6. We forced the Arab states to kick us out
7. We induce some Arabs to commit murder

The list is endless.

Dude, for your own good you need to get over your bitterness. It is holding you back!

[Toga]

Did you read my list or are you waiting for Moshiach to save us? Better they should take matters into their own hands and make themselves indispensible to other countries as well. Sitting at the gates of the UNSC and hoping for America is a little like the 12 spies, no?

I agree with you 100%. Only the Jews can guarantee the survival of Jews and the Jewish state.

[Toga]

Dude, for your own good you need to get over your bitterness. It is holding you back!

Please...we need to be realistic. What we don't need is a phony therapist like you. Get a license first. Than try to practice it. We must integrate into our present and future the past experiences. 70% of all UN resolutions are directed against Israel. Helloooo! The world and its hatred toward the Jews have not changed. Only their methods have changed.

Analyze what happened in Durban, South Africa in 2001 at the conference under the UN sponsorship. That is our reality.

[Mira]

Please...we need to be realistic. What we don't need is a phony therapist like you. Get a license first. Than try to practice it. We must integrate into our present and future the past experiences. 70% of all UN resolutions are directed against Israel. Helloooo! The world and its hatred toward the Jews have not changed. Only their methods have changed.

Analyze what happened in Durban, South Africa in 2001 at the conference under the UN sponsorship. That is our reality.

I didn't say to close your eyes and ears. You are going to alienate everyone (including Jews) and drive yourself mad. THAT is my professional oppinion.