Why I envy the Settlers

[Mediocrates]

A short piece from Jpost on some of the softer aspects of the Settlers we would all be better off emulating. In fact, I'm hard pressed to understand the label 'right wing' anymore.


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1105504413125


Why I envy the settlers


Larry Derfner, THE JERUSALEM POST, Jan. 13, 2005

As an Israeli leftist, I walk in the opposite direction from the settler movement. I have no use for its Jewish supremacist ideology, for its political and religious extremism, for its natural bent toward conspiracy theories and violence.

I'm not, of course, talking about every individual in the movement – I am talking about the driving personality traits of the movement as a whole.
But that goes only for the settlers' politics and religion. When I judge those true believers by the way they actually live their daily lives, by the kind of society or community they've built with one another, then as a leftist I can only admire them. More than that – I envy them.


In so many important ways, the ideological settlers live by what the Left claims to stand for, while the day-to-day life of the leftist "community" in Israel is a mockery of its own supposed principles.

I ask myself: If I were stranded in the desert and only one car was going to come by, who would I prefer to be in it – a family of religious settlers from Beit El or a post-Zionist Ph.D student from TelAvivUniversity? There's no question.

When it comes to going out of their way to help others, the settlers are just world-beaters, while leftists live their own lives, they're individualists, they like their privacy to think their own thoughts.

Giving of yourself to help the other guy is supposed to be a core value of the Left. Who lives it, and who doesn't?

And what about materialism and status seeking? The Left is supposed to have an alternative to the Western obsession with "things," with taste-mongering, with always climbing some ladder, and that alternative is supposed to be about forgetting the old ego a little and dedicating your life to some larger, selfless principles.

Where do you find more of that – in Ofra or Ramat Hasharon?

Now how about the mother of all contemporary leftist ideals – multiculturalism, also known as inclusiveness? Go to a Peace Now rally and all you will find are Ashkenazim, white people – 99 percent, no exaggeration. University types, all of them.

It's not, God forbid, that working-class Mizrahim aren't welcome – in fact, if a contingent from Shlomi or Yeroham wanted to come to Kikar Rabin, I'm sure Peace Now would charter helicopters to bring them and take them back. But the fact remains that only well-educated, mainly bourgeois Ashkenazim go to these things.

NOW TAKE a stroll through the crowds at the settlers' anti-disengagement tent camp outside the Knesset. You'll see almost nothing but Orthodox; but within this religious, right-wing Jewish community there is no one class or ethnic group. There are Ashkenazim and Mizrahim, there are even Ethiopians, the poorest of Israeli Jews, whom you never see at a left-wing rally. Classwise, some of these protesters look refined, some look rough.

There's the same "multicultural inclusiveness" seen at every giant right-wing rally. True, the crowd is virtually all religious, and there are no Arabs. But at the peace rallies there are no Arabs either, except for the occasional guest speaker, and virtually everyone is secular.

So where do you go if you want to see a real left-wing demographic picture – the rainbow nation, the human mosaic, The People? Do you go to Jerusalem or North Tel Aviv?

Once the Left had laborers and farmers on its side; now all it's got is intellectuals. The Left once had its own version of the settlements – a living showcase, a model community of down-to-earth people, a way of life built on left-wing principles.

It was called the kibbutz movement, and for the last generation there has been no more demoralized community in this country. The kibbutzim ditched the "we" for the "me" with an eagerness unmatched outside the former Soviet republics.

Kibbutzniks don't dance and sing around the campfire anymore. If you want dancing and singing, you have to go to the settlements, to Jerusalem, to the gatherings of the Orthodox. That's where you'll feel the spirit, the warmth, the togetherness – not in the academic, "free professional," elite circles of the Left.

It is right-wing Orthodox Jews who are the true Israeli masses. Today, they are the ones making a noise that sounds like the cry of humanity. The only noise leftists are making is restaurant chatter.

In the battle for Israel's future this year, the Right will be a multicultural, inclusive presence on the street, while the comfortable, Ashkenazi Left will be indoors. We'll let the army and police handle this.

But for all the above, I don't want anybody to misunderstand – I'm not switching sides, not at all. Right is right and wrong is wrong, and the settler movement is wrong, and destructive, and we can't go on like this. I seriously hope that scores of settlements ultimately get taken down and that the ideology of the movement gets defeated.

But if that happens, I also hope the human and communal spirit of the settlements lives and grows – over here, on the Left's side of the Green Line. If the settlers were to resettle and rededicate themselves inside the borders of a democratic, Jewish country, I, as an Israeli leftist, would no longer see them as an obstacle to anything.

Instead, I'd see them as role models, as an inspiration. Even as heroes.

[Mediocrates]

http://www.yeshaspeaksout.org/blog/_...12/203616.html


http://www.yeshaspeaksout.org/blog/_...12/203614.html

[Ophra]

FOR THE SAKE OF ISRAEL'S SECURITY, BRING THE SETTLERS HOME

For the past 35 years, more than 200,000 Israeli citizens have been induced by special economic incentives to settle in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. A recent comprehensive survey* of settlers found that nearly 80% were motivated by a desire to create better lives for themselves and their families and not by ideological or religious reasons. That dream, however, quickly became a nightmare of constant terror, sniping, murderous incursions into settlements, and suicide bombings. Simultaneously, enormous suffering has been inflicted upon the Palestinian population.

The relentless campaign to settle hundreds of thousands of Israelis amidst millions of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip threatens the moral foundation of the State. One year after the 1956 Sinai Campaign, IsraelÃÂs first Prime Minister, David Ben-Gurion explained to IDF officers the reasons for IsraelÃÂs withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula. Nearly fifty years later, his speech serves as both warning and grim prophecy. :

It was clear that remaining in Gaza, while the entire world condemns us - and knowing that terrorism would develop and that we would be forced to crush such terrorism - all this would have been inconsistent with our capacity and vital needs. Our military authorities would have had to shoot terrorists on a daily basis. The state would not have been able to withstand this. Possibly, this would have destroyed us, not militarily, but morally - and in my opinion our morality conditions our very existence.

David Ben-Gurion, Distinction and Purpose, April 4, 1957 pp. 293-294

The settlers have never enhanced Israel's security. On the contrary, their vulnerability to attack has resulted in the loss of nearly a thousand Israeli soldiers and civilians in the last 35 years and hundreds in just the past two years. Those who live on land expected to be negotiated as part of the new State of Palestine -- especially those in settlements that are distant from Green Line Israel and are surrounded by much larger Arab populations -- are an obstacle to peace; their continued presence prevents a viable solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

FOR THE SAKE OF ISRAEL'S ECONOMY, BRING THE SETTLERS HOME

The cost of sustaining and protecting the settlers is draining Israel's resources; it limits IsraelÃÂs ability to provide vital social services, build a stable economy, and ensure peaceful coexistence between the Jews and Palestinian Arabs of Israel. The unending conflict, which the settlers exacerbate, has contributed to a severe economic downturn, a rising rate of unemployment (over 10%), a dramatic decrease in foreign investment, and an increase in the number of Israelis (now 20%) living below the poverty line, including 27% of all children.

PROVIDING SUITABLE COMPENSATION OPENS UP THE POSSIBILITY FOR MANY SETTLERS TO VOLUNTARILY RETURN TO ISRAEL PROPER

A popular misconception claims all settlers would actively resist any attempts to bring them home to Israel; but the same survey* revealed if a decision is made for withdrawal, a clear majority of settlers is prepared to accept a withdrawal from the settlements in exchange for suitable financial compensation. Undoubtedly, among this majority, there are many if not most who would leave voluntarily even in the absence of a comprehensive settlement were they provided with the financial wherewithal to do so.

[Mediocrates]

Why is it you believe you have more to dislike and fear from Haredi Jews than from secular Palestinians. Why do you, or do you believe that you won't have huge fractures in your society once/if the Palestinian problem goes away?



http://www.yaleisraeljournal.com/summ2004/stern.php

[Hierophant]

i gotta admit that i do too, sorta. I mean they are neo-kanna'im, in many ways. I dunno if they have their own Phinehas, maybe thats what they need. i dunno. There just seems to be so many parallels. but then i lack the jewish perspective to really say. JMHO.

[Ophra]

Why is it you believe you have more to dislike and fear from Haredi Jews than from secular Palestinians. Why do you, or do you believe that you won't have huge fractures in your society once/if the Palestinian problem goes away?

If it was just me Mediocrates we would not have the Shinui party with 15 seats in the Knesset .... now would we ?

If it was just me Mediocrates we would not have a majority support for pullout ..... now would we ?

See :
Poll shows majority support for pullout

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's "disengagement government," enjoys the support of the majority of voters, according to a poll carried out on behalf of Haaretz by Dialogue on Wednesday.

The poll, conducted under the supervision of Professor Camile Fuchs, shows that the majority of the population supports the new government and the disengagement plan, particularly the voters from the left and the center.

However, the poll also showed that while 38 percent of the public supports implementation of the disengagement plan, 38 percent also back a referendum on the issue.

Responding to this data, a spokesman from the Prime Minister's Office said that Sharon remained adamantly opposed to a referendum, which he believes will only further the division among the people and lead to violence.

The poll, taken following the formation of the new government, shows that were elections to be held now, Shinui would lose four of its 15 seats in the Knesset, while Yahad would strengthen from six to eight MKs. The Likud would lose three of its 40 MKs and the Labor Party's political strength would remain unchanged at 19 seats in parliament.

The prime minister's popularity grade has increased to 6.3 points (on a scale of one to 10), compared to the grade of 6.05 he received in a a poll conducted on behalf of Haaretz two months ago. Sharon is receiving the highest marks from Labor voters, who give him 6.9 points compared to the 6.72 he gets from his own Likud voters.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/527141.html

[Ophra]

As to the why .... here is the why :

Last chance for the two state solution
by Yossi Alpher

This week witnesses the election of Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) as chairman of the Palestinian Authority, and the installment of a new Likud-Labor governing coalition in Israel. In many ways, these two events signal the countdown for the last chance to rescue the two state solution.

For two years I have been writing that the clock is ticking on the two state solution. The reasons are geography--the deadly spread of the settlements and outposts, creating an increasingly unbreakable interlock between Israelis and Palestinians; demography--the Palestinians are winning the population war; hard line Palestinian positions on "existential" issues (for Jews) like the right of return; and the suicide bombings that have persuaded traumatized Israelis that there is no partner for a two state solution. All this, while during the past four years the leadership on both sides as well as in the United States lacked a realistic strategy for peace, or even for ending the violence.

Now the Palestinians have elected a leader who openly condemns the previous strategy of violence and advocates a non-violent campaign for Palestinian rights. Those "rights" still include demands unacceptable to Israelis. But at least Abu Mazen is trying to reverse one of the reasons for that ticking clock.

In parallel, in Israel a new government has emerged, led by a courageous prime minister who has, in the face of heavy opposition from his own right wing, reversed one of his most staunchly held positions: this government is uniquely dedicated to the cause of dismantling settlements. Not enough settlements, and unilaterally rather than through negotiation, but this too is a vital start in the right direction.

Ariel Sharon is in any case not a candidate for an "end of conflict" peace process with the Palestinians. And Abbas's positions on the right of return and the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif probably rule him out too as the Palestinian leader who will make comprehensive peace with Israel. Nevertheless, if the ticking clock was at five minutes to midnight a year ago, it has now been reset to 20 minutes to midnight. We have gained a little bit of breathing room.

What are the tests that confront Abbas and Sharon? And where can Bush offer vital help and support?

Abbas thinks he can succeed in ending the violence by persuading Palestinian militants, including from his own Fateh movement, to lay down their arms rather than by confronting them with force. Problematic as this tactic looks, he should be given the opportunity, because this is by far the best way for Palestinians to resolve their differences. With Yasser Arafat no longer sabotaging his efforts behind his back, and if Sharon can exercise the right degree of restraint, Abbas just might succeed.

Sharon has to make good on his promise to remove the settlements of Gaza and the northern West Bank. The settler opposition is dedicated to turning this into the most traumatic domestic event in 56 years of Israeli history. Abbas, who will receive additional territory in return for nothing and who will witness the beginning of the roll back of the settler movement, has every reason to see this as a Palestinian opportunity rather than an Israeli conspiracy, and to persuade his constituents accordingly. He must make every effort--by stopping violence and cooperating with the disengagement plan--to enable Sharon to succeed.

Progress regarding security and settlements--this is all that can happen in the coming year. But it is a lot. Settlement proliferation and lack of security are the two main reasons why the peace process collapsed in the first place. Any attempt to rekindle a roadmap-based peace process during this time will not only fail, it is liable to sabotage disengagement. Abbas must persuade his new constituency that disengagement, stability and reform are for the time being a sufficient quid pro quo for ending the violence. Like Sharon in the security field, the best move Abbas can make for his cause at the political level is to exercise restraint.

Sharon can help him by offering incentives and confidence-building measures like prisoner release. Bush can help too by pressuring Sharon to make the necessary gestures, and by leading a campaign to aid the Palestinians economically. Finally, Bush must lead the international community, particularly the European Union, in stepping back from the roadmap, thereby hopefully allowing Israelis and Palestinians to step back from the brink of endless conflict.

A year or so from now Israel will almost certainly hold new elections. Meanwhile, in the coming months Palestine itself faces more elections: for the legislative council and, perhaps most important, within the Fateh movement. When the smoke has cleared from all the momentous events of the coming year we will have a much better idea where we are heading. If by then the attempts to move in the right direction have failed, it may well be too late.

[Ophra]

More whys from the article you posted :

"" ..... no use for its Jewish supremacist ideology, for its political and religious extremism, for its natural bent toward conspiracy theories and violence.

But for all the above, I don't want anybody to misunderstand – I'm not switching sides, not at all. Right is right and wrong is wrong, and the settler movement is wrong, and destructive, and we can't go on like this. I seriously hope that scores of settlements ultimately get taken down and that the ideology of the movement gets defeated.

But if that happens, I also hope the human and communal spirit of the settlements lives and grows – over here, on the Left's side of the Green Line. If the settlers were to resettle and rededicate themselves inside the borders of a democratic, Jewish country, I, as an Israeli leftist, would no longer see them as an obstacle to anything......... ""

[Mediocrates]

Yes yes I understand falling over one's self to provide a carpet for Palestinian feet to trod over. What I wonder about, baffled really is how you think your own disgust hatred and loathing of the Haredi will magically disappear. It's not really as simple, as in a dictatorship, as simply waving your arms and declaring them all non persons, is it? You'll still have to deal with them even if it means marginalizing them and slowly erasing the Jewish character of Israel. And that process I imagine is bound to be as messy as the intifada. And then of course there will certainly be another group of disposable untermenchen you'll need to address behind them, and behind them and so on.

[Ophra]

Whatever.
Your opinion will never change.
Those out there reading this forum should be aware though ...that the religious right living within Israel make up only 20% of the population... and that we the secular majority are sick to death of them ... that's a fact.. you make of that what you will .

[Mediocrates]

And yet if stood up and declared that 20% of Americans should be herded into boxcars because they're a threat to national unity I'd be called what......a hero?


Fact is, your Haredi problem won't go away just because you want to dictate where they live. And if you get your wish and they are all brought back to Israel won't you have an even bigger problem with them than before? I'm not sure that being sick of them is a real answer.

[Mediocrates]

UPCOMING ACTIVITIES

The last two weeks we have witnessed an increase in incitement by the Prime Minister and his entourage against the heroic pioneers and their supporters. In order to justify the government's acts of violence and crimes against them and us - they are spreading lies and blood libels against the best element in our society, claiming we are violent and dangerous. Minister Olmert even called to "cut their hands off'- speaking about those who oppose Sharon's expulsion plan. All this should not scare us. At the contrary - it should strengthen us for we see Sharon is in total panic. He realizes he is incapable of implementing this plan. The majority of the people in Israel oppose his plan more and more. The campaign that scares the government the most is our successful campaign signing up soldiers saying they will not give a hand to the crime of the uprooting. Thousands of soldiers continue to sign, despite the witch hunt by the government. Women in Green is proud to be part of THE campaign that will, please G-d, prevent Sharon from implementing his evil decree. Join Women in Green in all our upcoming activities!

1) Sunday, January 16,2005

9:30am- at the entrance to the Jerusalem Central Bus station-

signing up soldiers and reservists on the "I will not give a hand to the patently illegal order of uprooting Jews and handing over our homeland to the enemy" petition.

(If the weather is stormy and raining- the signing up will be cancelled)

2) TU BISHVAT Tuesday January 25, 2005

Join Women in Green on an exciting morning of tree planting and chizuk to the outpost of Maon, in the southern Hebron hills, where 6 wonderful young families live in tents and work the land. Leaving the Laromme hotel in a BP bus at 9:00am. Return approximately 1:00pm.

Fee- 45 NIS which includes the busfare and part of buying trees.

Call to reserve seats on the bus: Anita 050-5-777254 or Nadia 050-5-500834

3) Zviki Koretzki's parents have set up a website- <http://www.freezvi.com>

It is now mostly in Hebrew- the English will be put up soon, too.

(Reminder: Zviki is that officer sitting in jail instead of having received a medal for his military action against Arab terrorists who were planning to send a suicide car into one of Israel's major cities.)

4) In Case You Are Arrested!

As promised- Women in Green has, as a public service, translated into English, the sheet written by the "Legal Center (Moked Hamishpati") detailing what to do in case one is arrested at the many upcoming demonstrations against Sharon's criminal expulsion plan.

"First Aid" Sheet for Those Arrested during Demonstrations and Protests against the Disengagement Plan:

We are entering a period of demonstrations and other protest activities, during the course of which arrests will most likely be made.

The Legal Center has assumed responsibility for providing detainees with legal and logistic support. This "first aid" sheet contains guidelines that should be studied carefully.

The Legal Center hot line (manned 24 hours a day): 0505-502111

Preparations before the demonstration:

It is advisable to come to the demonstration with the following items:

- a camera (which we recommend passing to a friend, in the event you are arrested)

- paper and pen (which we recommend keeping, to record everything from the time of your arrest to your release)

- cell phone (that will be confiscated as soon as you are officially under arrest, but very useful before and after detention)

- enter the Legal Center hot line number into the memory of your telephone

- Arrestee Card (attached), with a brief summary of the advice on this sheet

The Arrest:

Being arrested is not a disaster. It is part of the price of the struggle for the Land of Israel, and not such a steep price - maybe not very pleasant, but not so terrible. (Arrests usually have media impact that actually aids the struggle.)

Resisting arrest: only "passive resistance" to arrest is permitted. In other words, you don't have to make things easy for the police, but you are not to attack them or to use violence against them; if you do so, you will only garner further charges. The general rule: even if a police officer acts with you in an illegal manner - refrain from a physical confrontation with him. Try to document the event (details of the police officer, names of additional witnesses, injuries you sustained, etc.) for filing a complaint afterwards.

If your friend is arrested: if you see your friend being arrested, report this to the Legal Center hot line. It is important to remember our priorities: the demonstration is what is most important. It is inadvisable to interrupt the demonstration to interfere with, or attempt to prevent an arrest. Your friend will not be left on his own, the Legal Center emergency team will take care of him.

The arrest of minors: the arrest of children under the age of 12 is illegal. If you see such an arrest, immediately inform the policeman or officer that this is a child under legal age, who must be released immediately. At the same time, inform the Legal Center hot line.

"Detention" [ikuv] or "arrest" [ma'atzar]: If you are not expressly told that you are "under arrest" [atzur], then you are only "detained" [me'ukav]. Detention can last no longer than 3 hours, after which time, in accordance with the law, you (usually) will be released.

Making use of the "minute before": as long as you are not explicitly told that you are "under arrest" [atzur], you should be able to continue using your cell phone. It is important to make use of these precious minutes in order to call the Legal Center hot line, and deliver a detailed message about your condition, and the condition of others who were seized together with you.

Message about arrest: every arrestee is entitled to 2 telephone calls, one to his family, and one to a lawyer. (The police often "forget" this right, and they should be reminded!) In order to receive legal aid, it is recommended to call the Legal Center hot line.

It is important to know: from the moment you are arrested, you have legal backing!

Medical examination and recording of physical injuries: if you were injured by violence during your arrest - demand, first of all, to be examined by a doctor. Make sure that all the injuries you suffered are documented (in writing and in photographs), and that this is included in your case file [tik ha-chakirah]. Demand a copy for yourself, as well. In any instance of refusal, record with whom you spoke and his response. (If it is not possible to record this in writing, try to remember, and ask your friends to remember.)

Behavior during the arrest: we recommend keeping in good spirits, don't be pressured, and try to find pleasant ways to pass the time. It is important to transmit the message that arrests will not break us.

Attacks by police during the course of the arrest: do not consent to be attacked, neither physically nor verbally. In any case of such an attack, demand the details of the attacking policeman, from the policeman himself or from his commanders (refusal by a policeman to give his details also is an offense).

Police behavior (general): it is important that the police understand that your presence at the police station is liable to be harmful for them: you will be able to collect the names of policemen without name tags, policemen who smoke in the station (a public place), curse, engage in improper behavior, and the like.

[Mediocrates]

The Interrogation

The following advice is meant for "fresh" interrogatees, who lack legal experience and/or knowledge. If you are already "experienced" in this area, use the experience you have gained.

When you are about to be interrogated, remember 4 rules:

1) you are obligated to give your details (name and identity card number)

2) you have the right to remain silent during the interrogation

3) you have the right to consult an attorney

4) the interrogator is more experienced and more sophisticated than you are

The giving of details: the giving of identifying details (name and ID number) is obligatory and legal, and it is recommended to do so fully, in order not to accumulate an additional offense. Notwithstanding, it is recommended not to add anything beyond these minimal details.

The interrogation itself: our advice is to state only a single sentence during the interrogation:

"This is a political investigation, and therefore I have nothing further to say."

The following is an explanation and further details concerning this recommendation:

- make use of the right to remain silent: during the course of the interrogation, it is recommended not to give any version of the events. Anyone being interrogated has the right to remain silent, and it is recommended to take full advantage of this right. You should know: according to the law, you are not required to aid the interrogation. Therefore, do not be frightened by the investigator's threats that refraining from cooperating with him is liable to harm you. This is simply not true.

- give a reason for your silence: it is highly recommended to give a reason, in principle, for your silence (such as: "This is a political investigation") so that your silence will not be interpreted to your detriment. After giving this reason, it is recommended to be silent.

- don't be a "wise guy": despite the common jokes about policemen, it is important to recall: the investigator is usually more sophisticated than you are. Therefore, if you have no legal experience or knowledge - don't try to be a "wise guy." It is better to simply remain silent.

Complains against the police: if you have a complaint against the conduct of the police during the course of the demonstration or the arrest - it is recommended not to file it during the course of the interrogation, even if the investigator suggests that you do so. The names of the policemen, the names of witnesses, and the like, are to be recorded, and given over to the Legal Center hot line, in order to file an orderly complaint.

Photographing and fingerprinting: the police always demand this of the arrestee, but the law permits you to refuse. It is recommended to oppose this demand, at least until you receive other instructions from a lawyer. Give a reason for your opposition: "I will consult with the Legal Center [Ha-Moked ha-Mishpati]."

Release from Arrest

During the release stage, and the preparation for release, your cell phone will (probably) once again be available to you, and you will be able to call us directly for advice.

Release on bail: release on bail, without any restrictions, is essentially a formal procedure, and it is recommended to consent to this, to sign, and be released (in order to return to the struggle). Pay attention: read carefully everything that you sign, and make sure that all the sections in the bail form are filled before you sign (to prevent the police from filling them in afterwards).

Release with restrictions: expulsion from the area of the event / from Judea, Samaria, and Gaza / house arrest, etc. - it is recommended to oppose this and not sign, at least until receiving advice to the contrary from a lawyer.give a reason for your opposition: "I will consult with the Legal Center [Ha-Moked ha-Mishpati]."

The court session: don't be frightened by the threats of the police, that "if you don't sign, you will be taken to court." The lawyers of the Legal Center will come to represent you there, and will act for your release.

If you are informed of a court session, demand that the police also inform your attorney, and give them the telephone number of the Legal Center hot line.

Documentation after the arrest: if you are released, inform the Legal Center hot line (to remove you from the list of people on whose behalf it is working). Devote time and care to recording the injuries you suffered (go to a doctor, be photographed, collect the names of witnesses, etc.), and give this material, in an orderly fashion, to the Legal Center.

Arrest Card-cut out and keep in your wallet

You've been arrested? Remember:

- immediately inform the Legal Center hot line, and consult with the Legal Center about any questions you have.

- refrain from a physical confrontation with the police. Document any injury they cause you.

- retain the right to remain silent, but give a reason for your silence:

"This is a political investigation, and I have nothing further to add."



- oppose being photographed and fingerprinted.

- oppose release on condition of expulsion.

- document any medical injury.

Complaints are to be filed with the Legal Center, and not with the police.

The Legal Center hot line number: 0505-502111



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[Ophra]

And yet if stood up and declared that 20% of Americans should be herded into boxcars because they're a threat to national unity I'd be called what......a hero?

Mediocrates Please !!!!!! ........

Stop with the Holocaust rhetoric.... "boxcars !!" .... bimet !!

Fact is, your Haredi problem won't go away just because you want to dictate where they live. And if you get your wish and they are all brought back to Israel won't you have an even bigger problem with them than before? I'm not sure that being sick of them is a real answer.

Then let them stay where they are ..... I don't want my children dying defending racists ... as Daniel Pipes said " Let them defend themselves"

As for your "UPCOMING ACTIVITIES"....... once again.... whatever Bring in the whole Diaspora to help.. won't work .

[Mediocrates]

That's probably true but they won't go away either. Even if you plan on abandoning them they won't go away. I'm not trying to convince you since you've already made up your mind who is worthy of citzenship and who is not. I'd just ask you to make sure moving forward you let your fellow countrymen know what the specific criteria are and which steps you take to strip them of citizenship should your rules ever be broken.

At any rate so I heard you'd just as soon abandon a quarter million Israelis. Fair enough. But I imagine that quite a few will come back, yes? Let's say 200,000 come back. Then what? Other than sneering I mean. Do you extend any olive branch to them? Outlaw all their political parties? Tell them they can't establish their own communities even inside Israel? Give them the old "hey it's a free country and you are free to starve to death" Libertarian speech?

Or alternatively if they don't come back and they simply fight on, to the death or dispersal, then what? Who do you think will support or believe much of what Israel has to say to its own Israelis? Who's next? E Jerusalem? Golan? The Jewish minority of Haifa?

If the Sharon government woke up and declared that the Ethiopia experiment just wasn't working out, it was too expensive and they weren't making any progress so all the Ethiopians had to go back to Ethiopians would that be another necessary evil you would get behind?