What a beautiful story>
I've got a question as well, are there any Israel-Supporters in Holland left?
There used to be a pro-Israel site, but it is gone.
Home | What a beautiful story>
I've got a question as well, are there any Israel-Supporters in Holland left?
There used to be a pro-Israel site, but it is gone.
I don't know, you are from Holland aren't you ? What do you think ? Who do they support ?
Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem.
Author: John Galsworthy 1867-1933, British Novelist, Playwright
Here is an example of spinning by an NC clone, Uri Avnery (ex Israeli member of the Knesset and current head of Gush Shalom - Peace Movement). This is his spin about the 1967 Middle East War:Originally Posted by Sumud
Sure, and Nasser secretly loved Jews and Israel.........he was just joking when he said things like:Years later, it became clear to historians that there had been no real danger to the state, that the neighboring countries has not intended to attack but merely to bluff, that Israel's victory had been no miracle but the result of meticulous preparations, especially by the Air Force. But the myth survives to this very day.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/2654251.stmOn 27 May the President of Egypt, Abdel Nasser, declared: "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight."
Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem.
Author: John Galsworthy 1867-1933, British Novelist, Playwright
Holland and Europe as well support the Palestinians anywhere, anytime and anyplace! Why? I don't know! Are the Europeans just so stupid? I think so.
But they support the Palestinians because the are Muslims, that's for sure. If you ever come tho Holland< you will see this everywhere. We have one official language > Dutch and a language which is spoken in all major cities by everybody> Arabic! Even electricity bills and books are in Arabic. Schools teach in Arabic! This is insane, right?
Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali-born legislator has openly demanded that the Dutch intelligence service investigate the honor killings of Muslim girls.
http://ayaanhirsiali.web-log.nl/
Hirsi Ali's fight is against Islam's oppression of women.
Islamo-terrorists ritually killed Theo van Gogh, the producer of film Submission left a knife affixed to a five-page letter to the corpse promising the same treatment for Hirsi Ali.
Dutch Muslims, have accused her of stirring up Islamophobia on behalf of a cabal of right-wing politicians and columnists. Since the murder, a surprising number of native-born leftist Dutch intellectuals have come around to the Muslim point of view.
In a series of "Letters to Hirsi Ali" published this spring in the newspaper http://www.volkskrant.nl/ , several well-known, mostly male writers charged her with poisoning the political atmosphere with her strident attacks on Islam and the Prophet Mohammed.
They argued that by pandering to Dutch prejudices and putting Muslims on the defensive, she contributes to the very Islamic radicalization she claims to want to stop.
Muslims make up only 5.5 percent of the Dutch population, but they account for more than half the women in battered women's shelters and more than half of those seeking abortions. Muslim girls have far higher suicide rates than non-Muslim girls. Some Muslim girls, mostly African, are genitally mutilated in Holland.
As for Hirsi Ali, under several death Fatwas for pointing this out to the Dutch public – London and La Vegas bookies give her 5:3 odds that one of those fatwas will be carried out within a year.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali-born legislator has openly demanded that the Dutch intelligence service investigate the honor killings of Muslim girls.
Our intelligence service is so bad! They are in the newspapers almost every day> They make blunders every day! We give out millions for anti-terror measures and if we finally have some Muslim fundamentalist in custody, we realease them! Unbelieveble! Their top-blunder was that they were unable (on purpose?) to secure our to be president Professor Doctor Pim Fortuyn. He had the support of al the Dutch. And 5 minutes after he was shot there was an arrestation unit which arrested the suspect! Which normally takes half an hour in Holland. But the ambulances were refused to get to him! They had to wait until he was surely dead! Coincidence? I don't think so!
Hirsi Ali's fight is against Islam's oppression of women. Which is very good
Islamo-terrorists ritually killed Theo van Gogh, the producer of film Submission left a knife affixed to a five-page letter to the corpse promising the same treatment for Hirsi Ali.
Dutch Muslims, have accused her of stirring up Islamophobia on behalf of a cabal of right-wing politicians and columnists. Since the murder, a surprising number of native-born leftist Dutch intellectuals have come around to the Muslim point of view.
There are no worse people than left intellectuals, they occupy the goverment jobs. And kept lying to us. Happily I got out of their propaganda web, and developed my own opinion. So did many others! 80000 native Dutch leave Holland each year> and theire numbers are rising! And why? They al say that's because of the social climate. Every where you go you met Muslims! When you go out you must be with a group of at least 10 (in a very small city > 30000 inhabitants) otherwise you will be robbed (somethimes murdered) because you're not a Muslim (see Rene Steegmans).
And on the streets Muslim many woman walk in Burka's!
In a series of "Letters to Hirsi Ali" published this spring in the newspaper http://www.volkskrant.nl/ , several well-known, mostly male writers charged her with poisoning the political atmosphere with her strident attacks on Islam and the Prophet Mohammed.
They argued that by pandering to Dutch prejudices and putting Muslims on the defensive, she contributes to the very Islamic radicalization she claims to want to stop.
Muslims make up only 5.5 percent of the Dutch population, but they account for more than half the women in battered women's shelters and more than half of those seeking abortions. Muslim girls have far higher suicide rates than non-Muslim girls. Some Muslim girls, mostly African, are genitally mutilated in Holland.
5,5% is officially there are many many more but they are illegals.
And some girls are genitally mutilated? Make that many.
As for Hirsi Ali, under several death Fatwas for pointing this out to the Dutch public – London and La Vegas bookies give her 5:3 odds that one of those fatwas will be carried out within a year.
Conclusion: Holland is a terrible country. Never visit it! And for those wo are here already> flee now it's still possible!
I have an idea what led to this:
- Because of the fanaticsm and shortsighted policies of their leaders, ordinary Palestinians are seen on TV to be living in poverty, violence and suffering.
- The left leaning media report on the Middle East simplistically, with very little context and often in a partisan and biased way.
- Pro Palestinian media reports are further re-enforced by the one sided stance of the UN General Assembly which automatically supports the Arab's view of the world. This is because of the votes of 22 Arab countries, the Islamic nations, the non aligned nations, the rest of the appeasers who don't want their oil supply to be interrupted or their trade to suffer.
- Their own countries, in most of Europe, because of commercial self interest, tend to adopt a pro Palestinian stance and oppose Israeli policies (even policies involving only self defense such as the security fence).
- Ordinary people are not really well informed, they are not really interested in the Middle East and they probably don't really like either the Arabs or the Jews (they never did like the Jews), but because of the non stop media preoccupation with Palestinians, they tend to favour the side which is presented to be the underdog, namely the Palestinians.
Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem.
Author: John Galsworthy 1867-1933, British Novelist, Playwright
You can't discount the fact that antisemtism and antizionism have become identified with social concience activism. It's more than hate, it's self righteous hate.
I don't disagree with that either. Some people also adopt this feeling of righteousness as a means of atoning for the past treatment of European Jews by being able to feel and say things like: "See, the Jews too are unfair, they are racist, just see how they treat the Palestinians". This makes them feel that the past treatment of Jews was not all that wrong....
Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem.
Author: John Galsworthy 1867-1933, British Novelist, Playwright
Doesn't Abbas' institution of the death penalty disqualify the PA from EU financial aid?
Oh dear......you mean you want the EU to become moral and consistent ?......No, I think they would just prefer to be pragmatic and looking after their percieved self interest.......I suppose that is true of most of us humans.
Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem.
Author: John Galsworthy 1867-1933, British Novelist, Playwright
I tend to agree with you, nevertheless it's good to see that at least some of them, at least the ones who live in the US, are starting to think in more pragmatic terms. Ray Hanania is an American/Palestinian (you may have heard of him ?) who seems to have recognized the need for Palestinians must battle their extremists to achieve peace. Here is a copy of an article that he wrote on May 1, 2005:
Palestinians must battle their extremists to achieve peace
By: Ray Hanania*
Palestinian and Israeli peace is threatened by a growing movement of uncompromising rejectionists nourished by the ongoing conflict.
Extremists can’t afford to let the conflict end.
Many Israelis are thwarted by an inability to distinguish between the criticism of Palestinians moderates and the criticism of extremists.
Palestinians suffer under two occupations, the occupation by Israel and the occupation of Palestinian extremists who believe that continued suffering is a better alternative to compromise.
Palestinian moderates face dual obstacles, not the least of which are Israel’s sentinels. Conditioned to defend Israel at all cost, they fail to distinguish between Palestinian moderation and extremism focusing instead on issues of differences that results in a destructive debate.
But the greater threat to peace is the challenge facing Palestinian moderates from within their own confused and battered community.
Palestinians are too defensive and consumed with their suffering and anger. The hatred sometimes produced prevents them from seeing past these emotions. Yet they must see beyond.
In recent months, leaders of the American based al-Awda movement, the organization advocating for the return of all Palestinian refugees to Israel, have unleashed a campaign of hate against moderates seeking to compromise with Israel. Targeted are Palestinians who dare to speak out against unreasonable policies of rejectionism.
There is a conspiracy of doctrine that unites the extremists. They attack those who question the faults of their policies and those who speak out against violence, denounce terrorist organizations like Hamas and denounce suicide bombings as immoral.
As Palestinians strive to define the moderate voice and speaking out against anti-Semitism, extremists are responding with stronger and more forceful campaigns to discredit them.
The most difficult hurdles facing the creation of two states are the sharing Jerusalem and the Palestinian refugee problem. In addressing the refugee problem, Palestinian moderates are seeking to end the suffering of the refugees and their disenfranchised descendents.
To salvage Palestinian rights and to achieve statehood, Palestinians must find the courage to speak to these difficult issues and to prevail over the uncompromising ideologues.
The al-Awda extremists are exploiting not fighting to end Palestinian suffering. They need that suffering to continue, just as all extremists need the conflict to rage on endlessly.
These rejectionists have a direct stake in the conflict. If it ends, they end, too. They have created an industry of exploitation that thrives on the suffering. They have jobs, salaries, lives and a soapbox from which they can continue to preach uncompromising hatred to their choir of disillusioned, disheartened and lost.
For more than half century, this unholy brotherhood has imprisoned the Palestinian refugees in their camps. To prevent peace, they will use any tool including violence that goes far beyond the boundaries of legitimate resistance.
They have duped many well-intentioned supporters of human rights who want to help the Palestinians, but who have no other voices to support.
The average Palestinian is living in a Diaspora of emotion and injured national pride that cannot easily be overcome to see the truth. Rather than challenge the extremists, most Palestinians remain silent, empowering the extremists. It’s a cycle of viciousness that must be broken.
Rather than receiving full support from moderate Israelis and Jews, they are being challenged, not on issues of larger substance but on smaller issues of vanity.
The Palestinian-Israeli conflict has generated two separate historical narratives that will never meet, not even after a peace accord is achieved. The solution, though, is to recognize that while we cannot agree on details of history, we can agree on the details of a future based on mutual respect, security and sovereignty.
Peace does not mean we cannot criticize each other. We can and we should. But we can criticize policies, not people. Events, not emotions.
Instead of looking back at history to find reasons why we cannot come together, Palestinians and Israelis must turn away and look toward a future, and work together to overcome all extremists working together.
Before this can happen, though, Palestinians must find their true independence. They have to break free from the choke hold of fanaticism that is eroding their future. They must find the courage to face the unreasonable stridency that smothers Palestinians under a more vicious occupation.
Supporters of Israel can either standup and support this effort, or they can continue to remain silent wrongly believing that this debate undermines the strength of the Palestinian cause.
At some point, Israelis and Jews must also standup to the extremists who also exist in their community.
Then and only then can the future be free of violence and Palestinians and Israelis can live in peace and dignity in two states.
*Ray Hanania is the former national president of the Palestinian American Congress. An award winning journalist and author living in Chicago.
Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem.
Author: John Galsworthy 1867-1933, British Novelist, Playwright
Yup, these are the reasons,
I just wanna ad one more.
Not only the media brainwash people, also the left politicians.
When people seeing theire favorite politician 'praying' to boycot Israelis and support the Palestinians, they tend to take that opinion over.
A few years ago mrs Duisenberg the wife of the ex-director of some important bank started a Pro-Palestina movement in Holland. She collected signatures of people in Holland and she also has put al signatures of important people together. She had a list which included half the Dutch parlement. (tweede kamer). including the prime-minister and fraction-leaders!
And there was nothing yo could do about it, al newspapers took this opinion over. And all Dutch were brainwashed even more
She is still in the news somethimes, when she is thrown out of Israel again
Yes, I have heard about her, wasn't she the one who put up the Palestinian flag on her house ? What happened to her ? Is she still in the news ?
Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem.
Author: John Galsworthy 1867-1933, British Novelist, Playwright
What is the Queen of Palestine (Yasser Arafat use to refer to her as “Her Excellencyâ€) Gretta Duisenburg up to lately? Wife of the former head of the European Central Bank – given the EuroWreck of last month, perhaps they went into hiding.
Last I heard of the Queen was when she claimed that the Israeli occupation of the disputed territories is worse than the Nazi occupation of Holland.
Probably “Gretta Duisenberg†changed her name to "Regrettable Douchebag" to avoid the news. (I know....I know that wasn’t very nice – sorry : )
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