Chirac proposed an international tax

[KettleWhistle]

And of all things it is to fight AIDS. Not cancer--the #1 death-causing disease in the world, but AIDS. Well, I'd love to see it when he is told to shove it. These latest international-ish activities for the benefit of developing countries actually remind me of Soviet Union's world peace initiatives in the 80's. Could this signal streamlining decline of France, the Evil Empire's little whore? I sure hope so.

Chirac Seeks International Tax to Fight AIDS
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...aids_chirac_dc

DAVOS, Switzerland (Reuters) - French President Jacques Chirac outlined bold proposals on Wednesday for an international tax to help fight AIDS (news - web sites), saying such a measure could raise $10 billion each year.
"I propose today moving forward through the creation, in an experimental way, of a levy to finance the fight against AIDS," Chirac told the World Economic Forum (news - web sites) in Davos in a speech delivered by video link-up.

Chirac said the levy could be imposed on international financial transactions without hampering markets, but it could also be raised by taxing fuel for air and sea transport, or levying $1 on every airline ticket sold in the world.

"It would allow us to mobilize $10 billion a year," he said.

The French leader's radical proposals upstaged British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites), who was due to address the forum's opening session later on his plan for reducing global poverty, although Chirac was careful to endorse the British plan.

His ideas are likely to meet strong opposition from the United States and most other rich nations, as well as financial markets and airlines, but will be popular with anti-globalization campaigners and AIDS awareness groups.

Chirac insisted the proposed tax on financial transactions was not a new version of the tax first proposed by Canadian economist James Tobin to combat speculative capital movements.

"The international solidarity levy would be designed so as not to be an obstacle to normal market operation. It would be based on three main requirements:

-- a very low rate, of a maximum of one ten-thousandth

-- applied to a fraction of international financial transactions, which represent some $3 trillion per day

-- the levy would be based on cooperation between the major world financial markets, so as to avoid the effects of evasion."

As an alternative, he said states that maintain bank secrecy could be asked to partially compensate for the consequences of world tax evasion through a levy on flows of foreign capital in and out of their country.

Chirac's options for taxing kerosene or airline tickets seem bound to face hostility from the aviation industry, already facing tough business conditions due to high oil prices and tightened security measures since the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States

[goliath]

Chirac was asking to his minister advisers ,to find what kind of plan or genial idea ,he can propose in order to monopolize the attention of all the leaders and the mondial press, and to mask the huge decline of France ,our public debt is :b euros 1450 , $ b 1885. Which is more than a problematic
factor, in France no one is talking about that : it cost to the gov. : b euros 64 a year , b$ 83 a year ( 3.8% interest) which is unbearable on the long term for our country.
Kettle ,concerning the decline your deduction is good, and as usual nobody wants to give that kind of info to the public, the growth is negative , the figure of inflation gave officially is 1.80 /2.00 % ,but it's unreal statement,even the day before the Argentina crack , all the banks were smiling to customers and with a large one.
Chirac's higher dream ,is to be involved in the Israel/Pal negociations ,in order to win the confidence of a maximum of Arab countries.

[KettleWhistle]

Well, this one should definitely get the worlds attention:

French Vintners Hope to Destroy Surplus

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor..._too_much_wine

By MIKAEL G. HOLTER, Associated Press Writer

PARIS - It wouldn't quite be pouring good wine down the drain, but close.

Stuck with hundreds of millions of bottles they can't sell in a toughening global market, vintners want to distill some of France's winelake into industrial-use alcohol.

It wouldn't just be swill heading for destruction: Most of the 66 million gallons vintners hope to recycle is considered high-quality.

Such destruction would be unprecedented for "appellation" wines that carry France's AOC seal of origin and quality. Although nearly 71.3 million gallons were distilled into alcohol in 2002, that was second-rate table wine. This time, 267 million bottles of AOC wines would be boiled down in stills if vintners get their way.

"Generally, distillation is for the worst products," said Robert Beynat, chief executive of the Vinexpo international wine fair.

That vintners are clamoring to destroy stocks of wine that would nicely accompany a meal underscores their difficulties. Vintners, some bearing a mock coffin marked "Here lies the last winemaker," held protests in several cities last month to appeal for government aid.

The average Frenchman still downs 13.2 gallons of wine a year — but that is half as much as in 1961. A study for Vinexpo published Thursday predicted that the United States will overtake France as the leading overall wine consumer by 2008 — although the French would still lead on a per capita basis.

Pressured by Californian Chardonnays and other vintages from the new world, French wine exports fell by 6.6 percent in volume and 6.1 percent in value in the first 11 months of 2004.

Vintners say distilling wine into alcohol would cut surplus stocks — which were swelled by a bumper harvest last year — and help restore the balance between supply and demand.

But because of European Union (news - web sites) regulations, the process requires getting not only French but also European official approval. [Gotta love the EUrocracy!--K.W.]

The proposal from the Confederation of French Wine Cooperatives — which represents 110,000 winemakers who account for half of France's wine production — would require the French government to ask the EU's executive commission for a "crisis distillation."

The measure is designed to partly finance winemakers struggling with surpluses. Vintners would get an EU-fixed price for wine sold to distillers, who in turn would get an EU pledge to buy up the alcohol they produce.

The government's wine office, Onivins, says AOC producers in France, whose wines are generally more marketable because they age and taste better, have never before resorted to an EU crisis distillation — which would be a last resort.

AOC vintners would get only one-fifth of the usual market price if they sell to distillers — better than nothing but still "an extremely low compensation of the winemakers' work," said Roland Feredj of the Interprofessional Council of Bordeaux wines, which groups winemakers and wholesalers from that famous viticultural region.

The government has not said if it will approach the EU commission for help. Agriculture Minister Dominique Bussereau said this week that the proposal needs to be discussed first with the wine industry. He plans to hold talks next week with wine representatives about how to help the struggling sector.


And for whoever likes to accuse Americans of being fat: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...par10101271826
(BTW, the guy on the right should consider a new career playing Portos in the Three Musketeers and other movies based on Alexander Dumas' writings.)

[Luke90]

And of all things it is to fight AIDS. Not cancer--the #1 death-causing disease in the world, but AIDS.

Yes, but the thing about AIDS is it increases exponentially, it more often leaves orphans, it affects the young and healthy just as much (if not more than) the elderly and we actually have the tools to stop it.

[Mil]

Posted by Luke:


Yes, but the thing about AIDS is it increases exponentially, it more often leaves orphans, it affects the young and healthy just as much (if not more than) the elderly and we actually have the tools to stop it.

I don't mind the tax but how would the money be managed exactly? Would it be 100% vested into research, drug subsidies, or just benefit France?

If France wants to give a grant to some particular research institution I am all for it otherwise bug off. I am done paying taxes for idiotic world organizations especially given that US somehow always ends up the largest donor.

By the way my Mommy works for Abbot Laboratories and drug subsidies in third world countries is not good for her employment. The best protection from AIDs is abstinence; changing social trends does not cost billions of dollars.

[Canajew]

I would support a tax, but it would have to be a voluntary initative under the purview of the various national governments, who would be free to use the funds as they wish and who would be accountable to their voters.


taxes with labels attached to them sometimes work at raising awareness and giving people a sense of satisfaction that they are not just going into the big black hole.

That way, it is essentially governments giving money but then deciding which of their taxes they want to label as dedicated to that cause.

Ties into another pet idea of mine, emissions taxes. Kyoto will do squat. Everybody knows it. An effective kyoto like agreement will involve allocating rights worth trillions over hundreds of countries, and the chances of that ever happening are zero. but an international regime of emissions taxes, bringing private costs in line with social costs, would affect behaviour very well. And the taxes could be levied by national governments and used by national governments, allowing them to remove other distortionary taxes. it will only work if the largest economies undertake it together, and would be fairly cumbersone (whether as much as the current tax system, I'm not sure).

but giving some supra-national entity taxation rights over people is just dumb.

[Mediocrates]

$10 billion/yr to do what exactly?

As long as countries like Zimbabwe, Kenya, Tanzania are run by fools who scream that sex can't spread HIV infection, that condoms are evil and AIDS drugs are a secret plot by the west to take them over, what's the point? Even in this country, a poll recently done concluded that about half of African Americans believe AIDS is a manmade weapon built to wipe out all the black people. The latest Nobel peace prize winner said the same thing and then retracted it. I mean as long as people are convinced it's not their problem then what's the point?

As an aside note that in much of subsaharan Africa rape is a weapon of war. Therefore in some countries up to 70% of the army is HIV+. This means that your most heavily armed and impossible to manage population is also the sickest. The next wave of brush wars in Africa will be fought for AIDS drugs, not food or oil or religion.

[Canajew]

$10 billion/yr to do what exactly?

As long as countries like Zimbabwe, Kenya, Tanzania are run by fools who scream that sex can't spread HIV infection, that condoms are evil and AIDS drugs are a secret plot by the west to take them over, what's the point? Even in this country, a poll recently done concluded that about half of African Americans believe AIDS is a manmade weapon built to wipe out all the black people. The latest Nobel peace prize winner said the same thing and then retracted it. I mean as long as people are convinced it's not their problem then what's the point?

As an aside note that in much of subsaharan Africa rape is a weapon of war. Therefore in some countries up to 70% of the army is HIV+. This means that your most heavily armed and impossible to manage population is also the sickest. The next wave of brush wars in Africa will be fought for AIDS drugs, not food or oil or religion.

but shouldn't we do something?

[Mediocrates]

Like what? We've watched 4 decades worth of Palestinians piss away 15+ billion dollars down the rathole because we felt we needed to do 'something'.

Just throwing money at AIDS isn't going to do anything not as long as you have corrupt voodoo cannibal kings running things and western do-gooders screaming about how they don't get to micromanage everything. For instance. DeBeers gave AIDS drugs to their own employees but to very few if any of those employees' family members. So what happens? Committees and Handwringer NGOs swoop in and demand that DeBeers either gives those drugs to everyone or no one. Guess which one they're talking about doing.
Monsanto gives, gives, a huge amount of specially built GM grain to Zimbabwe and Mugabe does, can you guess....? He turns it down. Says famine is a better alternative than being in debt to the west.

I'm afraid that Chirac's tax would be like their oil for food program - a honeypot for corruption.

[Canajew]

Like what? We've watched 4 decades worth of Palestinians piss away 15+ billion dollars down the rathole because we felt we needed to do 'something'.

Just throwing money at AIDS isn't going to do anything not as long as you have corrupt voodoo cannibal kings running things and western do-gooders screaming about how they don't get to micromanage everything. For instance. DeBeers gave AIDS drugs to their own employees but to very few if any of those employees' family members. So what happens? Committees and Handwringer NGOs swoop in and demand that DeBeers either gives those drugs to everyone or no one. Guess which one they're talking about doing.
Monsanto gives, gives, a huge amount of specially built GM grain to Zimbabwe and Mugabe does, can you guess....? He turns it down. Says famine is a better alternative than being in debt to the west.

I'm afraid that Chirac's tax would be like their oil for food program - a honeypot for corruption.

that's why I think under no circumstances should an international body handle the collection and distribution of funds. It should be driven by national governments.

As for all the problems you raised, maybe we should do something about that too.

[KettleWhistle]

that's why I think under no circumstances should an international body handle the collection and distribution of funds. It should be driven by national governments.

It's being done already both by the U.N., individual governments (Bush actually increased the amount of help to Africa by $15 billion,) and by private organizatoins.

As for all the problems you raised, maybe we should do something about that too.

But this is what I see as a problem because many in the third world refuse to do anything, knowing that we will have to do it for them. I'd say the best thing to do is to force them to take responsibility for themselves. Chirac's proposal is, of course, a publicity stunt, but something of the sort would not help anything, and would also establish a potentially dangerous precedent for international taxation.

[Luke90]

I'm not sure if an international tax is the way to go but I certainly would like to see something being done.
It is a huge problem and it isn't the fault of most of the people affected.

[Mediocrates]

To. DO. What?


AIDS is a BL-4 agent. It is, for all practical sense, 100% terminal, like Rabies. It has a low indicidence of contagion. It is slow moving. It is not highly treatable. It is extremely expensive to manage. It leaves lots of orphas. Prevention is the only viable useful approach. Prevention, education and even draconian isolation. For God's sake it's an STD. People are going to have sex, protected or not. So you have to bang into their heads - prevention, protection, safe sex. A 50 cent condom is more effective than a $50,000 immunosuppressant cocktail.

[Luke90]

To. DO. What?

you have to bang into their heads - prevention, protection, safe sex.

I think you just answered your own question.
Education, provision of condoms (and also the orphans need looking after by someone).

[Canajew]

To. DO. What?


AIDS is a BL-4 agent. It is, for all practical sense, 100% terminal, like Rabies. It has a low indicidence of contagion. It is slow moving. It is not highly treatable. It is extremely expensive to manage. It leaves lots of orphas. Prevention is the only viable useful approach. Prevention, education and even draconian isolation. For God's sake it's an STD. People are going to have sex, protected or not. So you have to bang into their heads - prevention, protection, safe sex. A 50 cent condom is more effective than a $50,000 immunosuppressant cocktail.

drugs can essentially turn hiv into a chronic illness. And the longer onset of AIDS is delayed, the longer those suffering from HIV can be productive and support their children.

There is no reason not to allow generic pharmaceutical providers to make patented drugs that would otherwise be to expensive for African patients who need it.

And I am aware of the incentive effects of patent rights. just I don't think that R&D into AIDS drugs, which is driven by AIDS and demand in developed countries, would be at all affected by el;iminating a market which was pretty small anyways.