Intifada III

[Roland]

A shtetl is just a Jewish neighbourhood, or a small Jewish town.

"Shtetl" translates to "City". Looks and sounds like it a yiddish/german slang word.

[wellofvow]

Please don't go after orpha. She has done nothing wrong other than state an opinion you disagree with.

I am completely with Canajew, and not only about Ophra.

It is distressing to see this forum becoming a microcosm of Jewish society - either black or white, right or left, haredi or pig-eaters, completely correct or completely incorrect, and so on.

If a person votes for a party that you do not like, this does NOT make this him/her the personification of evil, or rotten to the core.

Members of this forum are showing intolerance, and this is increasing at an exponential rate.

It was completely uncalled-for to tell Ophra that if she disagrees with a right-wing government's solutions to horribly complex problems, she should leave Israel. No, I take that back. It is downright ugly, especially after putting down ALL Israelis who move to the States. Some move because they simply cannot find a job to support themselves and their families - and I am NOT talking about wanting to make $100,000 a year instead of $50,000, I am talking about being able to buy food. Some move for medical reasons. Some because of an elderly relative needs care.

The lack of tolerance and compassion being shown is very ugly indeed.

[goliath]

[QUOTE]

"Shtetl" translates to "City". Looks and sounds like it a yiddish/german slang word.[/QUOTE

If you like to learn Yiddish ,you can go near every" Goethe institut" in germany,the best is in Lubeck not for from your town..
shtetl is a village not a city.

[goliath]

[QUOTE][QUOTE=wellofvowI am completely with Canajew, and not only about Ophra

It is distressing to see this forum becoming a microcosm of Jewish society - either black or white, right or left, haredi or pig-eaters, completely correct or completely incorrect, and so on.[/QUOTE

I agree ,maybe it exist a possibility to convice some very excited people who are particularly vehement because they are sure to be right , which is not the best way to debate a subject,certainty doen't exist,or only for fanatic's religious, in all religions .
If a person votes for a party that you do not like, this does NOT make this him/her the personification of evil, or rotten to the core.
Absolutely, but here it's seems the more you are sarcastic ,the more people appreciate and "respect" because is sort of stage or shtetl theater.

Members of this forum are showing intolerance, and this is increasing at an exponential rate

And general speaking ,the interlocutor ,doesn't change his opinion even for an iota ,it's many times only to display " how much i'm educated " and my "knowledge on info" ..

It was completely uncalled-for to tell Ophra that if she disagrees with a right-wing government's solutions to horribly complex problems, she should leave Israel. No, I take that back. It is downright ugly, especially after putting down ALL Israelis who move to the States. Some move because they simply cannot find a job to support themselves and their families - and I am NOT talking about wanting to make $100,000 a year instead of $50,000, I am talking about being able to buy food. Some move for medical reasons. Some because of an elderly relative needs care

.
Ophra was showing a bit of agressivity at the begenning ,yes it can exist a lot of parameter who can be the major motivation in doing this or that.

The lack of tolerance and compassion being shown is very ugly indeed

.
I'm applying compassion and tolerance , I'm not sure that is the good path ,people on a forum desire mainly to be a brillant conversationnist , and display their so powerfull and accurate cultivated gray cells.
If you get some interest ,it's happen time to time ,so far so good,isn't it?

[Mediocrates]

It was completely uncalled-for to tell Ophra that if she disagrees with a right-wing government's solutions to horribly complex problems, she should leave Israel.

The lack of tolerance and compassion being shown is very ugly indeed.

Well maybe not leave, maybe just evicted, expelled, evacuated as she so pointedly and proudly cheers on. See the problem is that when all your Yesha Jews are relocated her intolerance and the intolerance of people like her will remain. One wonders what the solution will be at that point. What do you think will happen when all those people have been forcibly relocated. It's not as if they're going to suddenly become just like all the other modern secular jaded angry anti-settlers, is it? No they will again form their own communities that the Oprahs of your country will continue to seethe and rage against. Maybe you should start building refugee camps.

[Mira]

[QUOTE=goliath]

[QUOTE=wellofvow

And general speaking ,the interlocutor ,doesn't change his opinion even for an iota ,it's many times only to display " how much i'm educated " and my "knowledge on info" ..

Is this supposed to be a jab at me, goliath? If so, what exactly do you want from me on this board? My passport isn't for sale!

[goliath]

QUOTE=Interloper

Is this supposed to be a jab at me, goliath? If so, what exactly do you want from me on this board? My passport isn't for sale!

I never use the jab at no one ,boxing is not my kind , and in general it's not the favourite sport in our community .
It was not a jab , sort of test, kind of catch as you can..so I'm completely transparent , and can't play the ghost for the pumkin fest , sight..
The day I do really will be in need of you ausweiskarte ,we will renegociate the condition ,hehe, ya evreiisskii !
I expect everething and nothing from you ,and I'm glad to see your words again on line , I remember all the little hint you've gave us , L.A. not very far from Beverley Hills ,I have got a little hut there , who nows maybe one day I will come and say hello to the house kepper?
ps. anyway 25.000 shekel was a good bargain.......to him !

[minusthejihad]

I agree with Wellofvow as well as Medio.

And I don't know if WellofVow had it confused, but Ophra said "Jews who leave Israel are beyond contempt". Seeing that I am trying to have my cousin come here to work and breathe easy for a couple of years after completing his service in the IDF and college, I am repulsed by her attitude. Likewise, someone called me a "martyr" because I was going to intermarry. A few days later and especially after reading Ophra's post, it reminded me that a "martyr" is all in perception as it could be argued that:

Jews who stay in Israel even though they would like to experience another lifestyle matyr themselves for the cause, just as a Jew who marries someone they are not in love with only because they are Jewish could also be considered a martyr. As far as I know, anyone that sacrifices their own selfish needs for those of the "cause" whether it be preserving a Jewish majority or preserving a Jewish lifestyle can be considered a martyr.

But on the whole, a lot of this infighting is pointless and I think weakens us in general as a political, religious, or ethnic group. That is all our enemies need, and they hate settlers as well as secular Jews with just as much passion. Go ahead, throw stones at me, but I'll still love you as my own, just like a family member, but I'm not going to throw any back this time as I have no intention to give our enemies any more firepawer than they already have.

[KettleWhistle]

I am completely with Canajew, and not only about Ophra.

It is distressing to see this forum becoming a microcosm of Jewish society - either black or white, right or left, haredi or pig-eaters, completely correct or completely incorrect, and so on.

I really couldn't agree more. As told Canajew in a PM, I'm not "after" Ophra, but I do think she crossed the line with several posts that were straight-up cut-n-paste from electronic intifada, or some other like sites. Either way, it's besides the point. But we indeed need to cut down on this sort of propaganda. I know that wellofvow voted for Rabin before. I think she said that in one of her posts. But as much as I detest him and what he has done, I wouldn't hold it against wellofvow because she is obviously an open-minded person, who can admit being mistaken, and can see past black-and-white or for-peace-or-against-peace kind of thinking. I respect that.

The intolerance of anyone who dares to disagree is a whole other issue. This is a debate forum, not one where people come to agree with each other. And the articles from Haaretz that demonize a part of the Israeli population in order to pit other Jews against them are just disgusting. It is this kind of trash that causes the divisions among us, and makes some Jews hate others. I tend to think that it isn't that hard to accept the fact that there is more than one way to achieve peace, and disagreeing with the arguably undemocratic actions of Israeli government doesn't make you against a peace settlement and doesn't put one against secular Israelis.

[Ophra]

I agree with Wellofvow as well as Medio.

And I don't know if WellofVow had it confused, but Ophra said "Jews who leave Israel are beyond contempt". Seeing that I am trying to have my cousin come here to work and breathe easy for a couple of years after completing his service in the IDF and college, I am repulsed by her attitude. Likewise, someone called me a "martyr" because I was going to intermarry. A few days later and especially after reading Ophra's post, it reminded me that a "martyr" is all in perception as it could be argued that:

Jews who stay in Israel even though they would like to experience another lifestyle matyr themselves for the cause, just as a Jew who marries someone they are not in love with only because they are Jewish could also be considered a martyr. As far as I know, anyone that sacrifices their own selfish needs for those of the "cause" whether it be preserving a Jewish majority or preserving a Jewish lifestyle can be considered a martyr.

But on the whole, a lot of this infighting is pointless and I think weakens us in general as a political, religious, or ethnic group. That is all our enemies need, and they hate settlers as well as secular Jews with just as much passion. Go ahead, throw stones at me, but I'll still love you as my own, just like a family member, but I'm not going to throw any back this time as I have no intention to give our enemies any more firepawer than they already have.

I think this is about the last time I am going to explain myself on here ... from now on if you don't like what I say then tuff.

I have NEVER initiated a personal attack on anyone here .... what I do is retaliate... with good cause.

Now minusthejihad if you would please go back and see to which post I made that statement you might understand better .

Interloper made a very bitchy post about my Tel Aviv friends ( who she doesn't know from Adam ) and my comment was in response to that and was qualified by this " Those Israelis that run to America looking for the quick buck or an easier life are beyond contempt " .... I was not referring to people who take a break or go to study or for all the reasons wellofvow gave.
My comment was in regard to the kind of people that Interloper was trying to insinuate that my friends are and I guess myself. She started to be bitchy out of the blue...... she got bitchy back .

I want to debate .... everytime I try I am attacked because many on here don't like to hear another point of view except their own.
I suggest you all get over me... and get back to debating the issues ... which is what this place is supposed to be for.

[Ophra]

I really couldn't agree more. As told Canajew in a PM, I'm not "after" Ophra, but I do think she crossed the line with several posts that were straight-up cut-n-paste from electronic intifada, or some other like sites. Either way, it's besides the point. But we indeed need to cut down on this sort of propaganda. I know that wellofvow voted for Rabin before. I think she said that in one of her posts. But as much as I detest him and what he has done, I wouldn't hold it against wellofvow because she is obviously an open-minded person, who can admit being mistaken, and can see past black-and-white or for-peace-or-against-peace kind of thinking. I respect that.

The intolerance of anyone who dares to disagree is a whole other issue. This is a debate forum, not one where people come to agree with each other. And the articles from Haaretz that demonize a part of the Israeli population in order to pit other Jews against them are just disgusting. It is this kind of trash that causes the divisions among us, and makes some Jews hate others. I tend to think that it isn't that hard to accept the fact that there is more than one way to achieve peace, and disagreeing with the arguably undemocratic actions of Israeli government doesn't make you against a peace settlement and doesn't put one against secular Israelis.

I have NEVER posted anything from " electronic intifada " .... PROVE IT !!

What kind of " propaganda " ???? .... news from reputable Israeli sources that you don't agree with KW ????????

" undemocratic actions of Israeli government "............. LMAO .

[Mira]

I think this is about the last time I am going to explain myself on here ... from now on if you don't like what I say then tuff.

I have NEVER initiated a personal attack on anyone here .... what I do is retaliate... with good cause.

Now minusthejihad if you would please go back and see to which post I made that statement you might understand better .

Interloper made a very bitchy post about my Tel Aviv friends ( who she doesn't know from Adam ) and my comment was in response to that and was qualified by this " Those Israelis that run to America looking for the quick buck or an easier life are beyond contempt " .... I was not referring to people who take a break or go to study or for all the reasons wellofvow gave.
My comment was in regard to the kind of people that Interloper was trying to insinuate that my friends are and I guess myself. She started to be bitchy out of the blue...... she got bitchy back .

I want to debate .... everytime I try I am attacked because many on here don't like to hear another point of view except their own.
I suggest you all get over me... and get back to debating the issues ... which is what this place is supposed to be for.

My comment came directly after your very bitchy comment about Mediocrates, it was done with humor, and it was a direct response to a snippy little comment that you made. Want some more?

[Ophra]

Well maybe not leave, maybe just evicted, expelled, evacuated as she so pointedly and proudly cheers on. See the problem is that when all your Yesha Jews are relocated her intolerance and the intolerance of people like her will remain. One wonders what the solution will be at that point. What do you think will happen when all those people have been forcibly relocated. It's not as if they're going to suddenly become just like all the other modern secular jaded angry anti-settlers, is it? No they will again form their own communities that the Oprahs of your country will continue to seethe and rage against. Maybe you should start building refugee camps.

I would very much like to debate the settler issue with you Medio.... if you could cut the and cynical comments... I have much to say about why my country is in this situation .

[KettleWhistle]

"Shtetl" translates to "City". Looks and sounds like it a yiddish/german slang word.

"Shtetl" is an Yiddish word that originally described a small, exclusively, or almost exclusively Jewish town or village in Eastern Europe. My grandmother from a place like that, which was a small, backwards town of some 200 Jewish families, and one Russian family.

Nowadays, it often used to describe Jewish neighbourhoods or Jewish parts of the cities. In L.A., there is an area that Jews call "shtetl" in the Pico-Robertson area. It's a small part of city that has a couple dozen of synagogues, numerous kosher restaurants, and mostly populated by Jews. Similarly, Crown Heights in New York can be refered to as "shtetl," although I don't know if anyone calls it that.

[minusthejihad]

Those Israelis that run to America looking for the quick buck or an easier life are beyond contempt

I don't agree with that either. People have free will and an obligation to their family's well-being as well as the freedon to pursue their personal happiness. If Jews leave Israel for any reason except perhaps to join in fighting against Israel I think its wrong to feel contempt for them. We are individuals in fact, not a collective, and I strongly believe in Objectivism.

And don't forget, I am a secular Jew.