Home | There has been a massive pro-Syria protest today in Beirut. JPost reports that 500,000 people have attended. The protest was called in by Hizbullah. So, in other words, could I dare say that the Phalangist Chrisitans don't like the Syrian presence while the Sunni and Shia do?
you can say it, but it won't be trueOriginally Posted by danholo
Let them have their fun!!!! I was truely dissapointed that there was no blood in Ukraine but Lebanon is raising my hopes.
Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.
Dream on,it is good for your paradoxical sleep
By the way,not many sunnis were reported in this "spontaneous "demonstration
Dr Golani MD
I find it unfortunate that Libanon continues to remain a fragmented heterogenic society as Iraq is. This has been one of biggest problems in the Middle East and worsened when old imperialist powers drew artificial borders putting warring tribes into one commonwealth.
Not only moslims but also many christians attained the demonstration. It shows Syria was a truly stabilising force in Lebanon and Syria has helpted to end the civil war and regain southern Lebanon. In the demonstration, far larger than any anti-syrian demonstration in Lebanon, many modern young people could be seen, which undermines all your cliché's about Syria and Lebanon alike. Lebanon's first ennemy is still Israel, in the mind of all Lebanese including the anti-syrian parties. Israel bombed and destroyed Lebanon, Israel created the palestinian problem in Lebanon and Israel really occupied a part of Lebanon, and unlike the syrian presence it was not autorised by any democratic government nor was it a stabilising presence to say the very least.
Lebanon has an elected government and this government has allowed syrian troops to stay. It's as simple as that, and if you don't accept it you should not propagate democracy in the region, and look at your old and solid friends in the region the Egyptian, jordanian and saoudi dictators. You understand nothing about the entire region, that's why you made such a mess in Iraq.
But tIsrael and the US do not want stability in Lebanon, civil unrest or war serve their interests much more, since it would present another tool against common ennemy Syria and it would destroy a relatively succesfull Arab state that escaped US-unfluence so far. (of course not all is moonlight and roses in Lebanon, but at least they made a great advance compared to only 2 decades ago)
I also noticed the many young people attending this demonstration.
Israel going into Lebanon was a mistake on their part, I agree, but staying there was the biggest one. But to blame Israel solely for Lebanon's problems, they really need to do some soul searching of their own. But of course when you are brought up to believe that all your problems are Israel's fault, surely you will back the people who are against it.
Since Arabs attacked Israel in 1948 which caused a war and massive population exchanges between both sides, many Palestinians went into Lebanon. Unfortunately Israel had NOTHING to do with the PLO making another state within a state during Arafat's "era", so either their history books are all messed up or the people are messed up.
But don't blame me, I'm not propagating democracy in the Middle East. In the Middle East democracy doesn't work. Everybody honest with themselves should acknowledge this. Unfortunately you can't make people in the ME like you when they have a hard time liking each other!
BS. Don't know about the US but Israel doesn't need another crazy neighbor. Israelis are quite happy that they have nothing to do with Lebanon anymore. I believe that the assassination of Hariri was a shock to the Israelis as well as for Lebanese. The Civil War effected Israel as well, you know. And no, the Civil War wasn't Israel fault and probably least so. It was everyone's fault in Lebanon, the Christians, Sunni, Shia, Syrians and then Israel came into play because of the PLO not because it wanted to invade it. Or maybe it was King Hussein's fault because he slaughtered PLO forces driving the bulk of it to Lebanon?! Or maybe we could just all blame France for making Lebanon into such a nice "Christian" country just to explode in the near future.But tIsrael and the US do not want stability in Lebanon, civil unrest or war serve their interests much more, since it would present another tool against common ennemy Syria and it would destroy a relatively succesfull Arab state that escaped US-unfluence so far.
I mean come on... Or are you talking about what the Lebanese think or what you think?
Something interesting I found off the Internet:
The only book I've read concerning Lebanon was Thomas Friedman's from "Beirut to Jerusalem". I'd like to find some other good books on the Civil War. It is a very interesting subject. Unfortunately Civil Wars tend to be the most brutal. But I won't touch a Robert "ISREAL IS T3H 3VIL" Fisk's works. Or maybe I will...Proponents of Syria’s tutelage over Lebanon—and, of course, Syria itself—frequently make the ridiculous claim that Syria is a “stabilizing factor†in Lebanon. In order to deflect pressure, they loudly warn that a Syrian withdrawal will only lead to an outbreak of “civil war†in Lebanon. But the true state of affairs is that Syria is not a stabilizing factor in Lebanon at all. In fact, the opposite is true. The fire of quote-unquote “civil strife†in Lebanon was ignited by Syria, and Syria fanned its flames. And it is those self-created flames which Syria points to as the reason its presence in Lebanon is necessary. In other words, Syria is both arsonist and firefighter in Lebanon. It starts fires, and then extinguishes them. And until recently, the international community has only thanked Syria for dousing the flames and has spared it the blame for starting the fires in the first place. Syria has been the main cause of divisions among Lebanese and the main obstacle for national reconciliation. I would like to stress that the Lebanese people are neither prepared nor interested in starting a civil war in Lebanon and are ready to coexist peacefully. The current environment in Lebanon is not conducive to any internal armed conflict. In addition, the Lebanese army is fully capable of maintaining internal stability, handling isolated troubled pockets, and preventing the flow of arms and terrorists into Lebanon.
Absolute proof of Syria’s destabilizing influence in Lebanon is its treacherous actions in the southern part of Lebanon. Israel has withdrawn completely from South Lebanon, and this withdrawal has been certified by the United Nations, which has demanded that Lebanon deploy its army along the border with Israel. But the Lebanese puppet government—on orders from Syria—has refused to comply with this requirement. Instead, they let Hizballah roam free along the Lebanese border with Israel, stirring up trouble which can erupt at any time into a regional or international conflict.
Anybody have suggestions?
How many ethnic syrians and "ethnic palestinians" and hezbollah members came to this rally....? it was all about Hezbollah, like a party rally. I haven't heard anywhere near 500,000, but I have heard the impressive figure of 200,000.
I guess members on Amazon did the job well on suggesting good books. Fortunately I don't have to touch a work by Fisk and seems like the best books on this subject are by Israelis themselves! At least according to an Arab who has read them.
A very good take of a reader review on the book "Israel-Lebanon War" by Ze'ev Shiff and Ehud Ya'ari:
And another one by the same reader on The War for Lebanon, 1970-1985 by Itamar RabinovichThis bestseller book serves two purposes. On the one hand, it documents one of the biggest military adventures in the Middle East while on the other hand, it is a lesson for Western leaders who intend to use military might to change political realities in the region.
According to the book, this military adventure consumed itself and its engineer then Defense Minister Ariel Sharon, who circumvented Israel's democracy by withholding information about his true plan of invasion from Israeli politicians then unsuccessfully meddling in Lebanese internal politics.
The book is a survey of rapidly unfolding military events and a deep analysis into their immediate political consequences.
Since the book was published shortly after the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982, the authors should consider publishing an updated version that should cover the period of Israeli occupation thereafter and the consequent withdrawal in 2000.
The authors display mastery in understanding the mosaic picture of Lebanese politics. They also succeed in painting an accurate portray of Sharon, the General/politician who always called for a military solution for the Middle East's conflict. This, however, proved to be much more complicated than to be solved in an Israeli blitzkrieg strike against Lebanon in 1982.
The book also sheds a light on the determined and shrewd personality of late Syrian dictator Hafez Assad who succeeded, as in most complicated issues that faced him, in prevailing victoriously. Assad simply displayed more skill in understanding Arab politics than his Israeli counter parts, a fact whose end result was the complete Syrian domination of Lebanon, more than two decades after Israel's Lebanon war.
American policy makers behind the liberation of Iraq should read this book in order to refresh their memory on Arab politics and remind themselves of the magnitude of regional intervention of neighboring Arab countries in Iraq affairs.
Both reviews are credited to Hussain Abdul-Hussain, a member of Amazon.com, and resides in Arlington,VA.Itamar Rabinovich's The War for Lebanon is by far one of the most authoritative works on the Lebanese civil war. It is a quick survey that gives background information about most of the players, whether international, regional or domestic.
The account is concise, however, and sacrifices some details for the sake of brevity and coherence. Rabinovich's style is rich and attractive. For readers familiar with the Middle East, the book would serve as a fresh reminder and wouldn't take more than a couple of evening to finish.
Another drawback is that the book covers the period 1975-1984 without covering the rest of the civil war that ended on 1990. Perhaps an updated version with the war's conclusion and perhaps some analysis of the aftermath of the war are currently needed.
If you are looking for the history of the Lebanese civil war, this book is the one you are looking for. If you want some more history of the war, get Kamal Salibi's A House of Many Mansions as a supplement. Between the two books, you would have a complete and comprehensive idea of the Lebanese modern politics and its history.
Thank you Hussain!
Last edited by danholo; 03-16-2005 at 08:44 AM.
I just got the 500,000 number from various sources.
Yesterday JPost said "500,000". Of course this is an inital prediction by the police.
There were all kinds of people at the rally. Not all girls were wearing a hijab even. But most of them seemed like Hizbullah members/fans.
That has got to be the biggest piece of bull I've seen. The "Palestinian problem in Lebanon" was created by the Jordanians, who kicked the PLO, along with hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, out of Jordan during the infamous Black September events (when the Palestinians tried to assassinate king Hussein and take over Jordan) in 1970-1971. A few years later, the Palestinians already ignited a civil war in Lebanon, acting on Syria's behalf. In 1975, the pro-Syrian Palestinian Liberation Army (a.k.a.Sai'qa) entered Lebanon from Syria. In 1976 they massacred the entire population of two Lebanese towns- Damour and Jiyeh.
Seeing as the rally in question was completely Hizbullah controlled, I'd say that people who came there came mostly out of fear. If Syria is forced out of Lebanon, they are likely to use the Hizbullah to commit another Damour or two, and I don't think the Lebanese are eager to be subjected to massacres. Yes, Syria's withdrawal may indeed spark a new civil war in Lebanon- but this is a self-fulfilling prophecy, because those who start this war will most likely be acting on behalf of Syria.
Womble,
You're missing the simple logic! If Israel wouldn't be there in the first place, none of this would've happened. Arafat would be living his life as an engineer and his secret private life with his boyfriend!
Blood!!!!!!!!! I Want To See Blood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.
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