A tip to help you argue in support of the security fence

[NiekNL]

I've never heard of a country where immigrants - especially illegal immigrants - can obtain citizenship and have their children, grandchildren etc (who are all born and raised in the new country and are citizens) not learn one word of the native language let alone the culture - that country is Holland.

Yup, that's very very sad, but Bahia does seem to like it or?
Please Bahia explain the 'why', thank you.........

[Bahia]

to NiekNL,

I don't know where your e almost hate towards muslims come from as they never have attacked Holland, or want to destroy Holland. So for that reason I do not understand you wanting them to move back to their 'mountains' and such as you mentioned.

You have a retarded image of our muslim citizins. You mentioning they wear all Burka's, well that's not truth at all. A lot of modern muslim girls even do not wear veils. They are fully integrated.

Only a thin majority fallen into the hands of extremists thoughts really are a priority to handle.

[NiekNL]

to NiekNL,

I don't know where your e almost hate towards muslims come from as they never have attacked Holland, or want to destroy Holland. So for that reason I do not understand you wanting them to move back to their 'mountains' and such as you mentioned.

You have a retarded image of our muslim citizins. You mentioning they wear all Burka's, well that's not truth at all. A lot of modern muslim girls even do not wear veils. They are fully integrated.

Only a thin majority fallen into the hands of extremists thoughts really are a priority to handle.

Well, I am not positive about Muslims, but I never said I hated them>
And not wanting to destroy Holland what in all these mosques where they pray to hate us / kill us etc etc. So if a Muslim prays hate,they have to be send back! That's obvious don't you think so?

Fully intigrated? Why does 30% of the Muslims not even speak a word Dutch???

And only a few Muslims are extremists??? I don't know if you find 10% a few< but I think that 10% is MUCH!!! ( 10% of Dutch Muslims said to have no problems when ethnic Dutch are killed, and think that only Muslims shouls survive<survey from the: telegraaf, Hollands biggest Newspaper)
So I wonder why you still think positive about them>

[Bahia]

Why I like them?
The muslims I have met are friendly people, so I have no reason to dislike them.
As a country we have not been attacked by them, we are only facing difficulties with fundamentalist stupidity which also found it's way in Holland.
But we have other difficulties to face then f.e. Israël. Israël faces hostility from the Muslimfundamentalists. In that regard I have difficulties whith fundamentalist Muslimism and off course Israël has to defend itself from it.

But we in the west face difficulties of integration between the different cultures. And for us, I think it is no use to remain hostile towards Muslims from whereever, who's current generation try's it's best to be good citizens.

It's better to be in dialoque than to demonize the Dutch Muslim citizins.
And just be friends in some cases. May be we can help in Europe to accept
the muslims and prefend that certain Muslim younger people go to the fundamental site.

If we choose to be or remain hostile towards them, even though they have the Dutch Nationality, than we create an athmosphere were they tend to go the extremist way.

You have a better solution, besides moving them out to their former places?

[NiekNL]

As a country we have not been attacked by them, we are only facing difficulties with fundamentalist stupidity which also found it's way in Holland.
But we have other difficulties to face then f.e. Israël. Israël faces hostility from the Muslimfundamentalists. In that regard I have difficulties whith fundamentalist Muslimism and off course Israël has to defend itself from it.

Obvious>

But we in the west face difficulties of integration between the different cultures. And for us, I think it is no use to remain hostile towards Muslims from whereever, who's current generation try's it's best to be good citizens.

You think wrong twice>
First: We are not facing difficulties between cultures but between Muslims and Non-Muslims.
Second: The current generation is not doing his best> it is getting worse with every following generation, look to all the Muslim youth's who hang on the streets all day, refuse going to school> while many east asians are high educated and all try their best to study!

It's better to be in dialoque than to demonize the Dutch Muslim citizins.
And just be friends in some cases. May be we can help in Europe to accept
the muslims and prefend that certain Muslim younger people go to the fundamental site.

And I do not demonize them> I only discuss this with friends/ relatives and on this forum. And we do accept Muslims!!! They don't accept us!!!!!!!!! And Muslim youth's going to the fundamental side are being brain washed by the imam's etc etc to hate us murder us> we are not to blame>

If we choose to be or remain hostile towards them, even though they have the Dutch Nationality, than we create an athmosphere were they tend to go the extremist way.

You are turning the issue!!! They are hostile> they are extremists!!!
Bahia> please think about this>.................

You have a better solution, besides moving them out to their former places?

I don't have you?
Btw: why isn't this a good solution>
We get rid of them.
They can practise their Jihad's etc etc at home.
Everybody's happy..............

[Leon]

to NiekNL,

I don't know where your e almost hate towards muslims come from as they never have attacked Holland, or want to destroy Holland. So for that reason I do not understand you wanting them to move back to their 'mountains' and such as you mentioned.

You have a retarded image of our muslim citizins. You mentioning they wear all Burka's, well that's not truth at all. A lot of modern muslim girls even do not wear veils. They are fully integrated.

Only a thin majority fallen into the hands of extremists thoughts really are a priority to handle.

Bahia, whats comes out of the mosques of Europe not to mention my home country of Australia...and lets not forget the Middle East, should give us all a clear indication.

[NiekNL]

Bahia, whats comes out of the mosques of Europe not to mention my home country of Australia...and lets not forget the Middle East, should give us all a clear indication.

Exacly> so think and learn, it is not to late yet bahia.

[Bahia]

Off course one should be aware of those tendencies.
"But generalizing over the whole muslimcommunity, for me does not make sense!

[NiekNL]

Off course one should be aware of those tendencies.
"But generalizing over the whole muslimcommunity, for me does not make sense!

I know not all Muslims are the same.
But I wanna know why you blame the Dutch instead of the Muslims

[Bahia]

I am not blaming the Dutch, I am just self critical and as such looking to our society which has not have a past of accepting our Muslimcitizens as being eqaul to us the last 50 years. They were accepted only as low workers but not given the same treatment as fellow citizins, regarding towards workoppor-tunities. As long as they were doing the dirty jobs we accepted them.

By the way only in a very few Mosks hatred is spread and those Mosks are
being taken care of, those Imams have to leave the country. When there is
really the fact of hatred spreading then such a Imam has to be send back to where he came from. But no "whichhunting" and by law!

Extremist fundamentalist thoughts coming from whatever direction has to
be taken care of, we have to handle that. But putting a whole Muslim community in a corner of 'hatespreading' etc. is not right to do so, it simply is not truth, if you love truth and law, you ought to think about that!

Bye the way this will be my last post in this discussion with you NiekNL.
This thread does not handle Dutch inneraffairs but Israël inner affairs. I don't think we will ever agree, but I respect your opion.
See you somewhere else on the forum.

[NiekNL]

Bye the way this will be my last post in this discussion with you NiekNL.
This thread does not handle Dutch inneraffairs but Israël inner affairs. I don't think we will ever agree, but I respect your opion.
See you somewhere else on the forum.

okay

[Reffo]

The following letter was published in the latest edition of TIME magazine by a member of the chattering class ...

RE THE FALL OF THE BERLIN WALL 20 YEARS ago, I pray that I will see the day that the world manages to force Israel to demolish the wall of hate it has erected illegally. That wall and Israel's illegal settlements are making a peaceful resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict virtually impossible. You recollect that President Reagan famously urged Moscow to "tear down this wall". It is high time President Obama and Western Leaders to say exactly those same words to Israel - and to impose sanctions if it doesn't comply.

Wow .... what a mouthfull! Now let's look, dispationately at each item which is highlighted in bold, in the above letter and lets discuss it logically rather than emotively (which is the style that this member of the chattering class uses - come to think of it, they ALL do) ...

"force Israel to demolish the wall of hate": OK then, force the nations in the list below to demolish their "wall/s of hate" ...

1. The Great wall of Morocco (2720Km long) which is designed to stop infiltration and attacks by the Polisario Front ..
2. South Korea's wall between it and North Korea ..
3. Saudi Arabia's security wall between it and Yemen
4. Saudi arabia's 900km wall between it and Iraq
5. Turkey's wall in Cyprus to separate the Turkish and Greek sides..
6. The 75Km wall between Thailand and Malaysia designed to stop Muslim terrorist infiltration from Malysia
7. The wall that is currently being erected by the USA in the Mexican border, designed to stop the inflow of illegal immigrants..
8. Spain's wall which was designed to stop the entry of illegal immigrants from Morocco
9. Various walls in Ireland which seperate Catholics from Protestants..
10. The wall that Botswana erected between it's border and Zimbabwe
11. Last but not least, the wall which Pakistan erected between it's border and Afghanistan..

Israel's wall is no less justified than those walls. In fact it is more justified because it was built in response to murderous homocide bombings of Israeli civilians by Islamist terrorists. And indeed the wall reduced the fatalities of Israeli civilians by 98.5% so it has been a roaring success!

"illegally": Really? Israel's wall is illegal? So be it .... homocide bombing of civilians is illegal too!

"a peaceful resolution": Will ONLY happen when Palestinian Arabs and their supporters will regain their senses and will REALLY accept Israel as the state of the Jewish people and will REALLY give up on their idea of eliminating the Jewish state (whether by direct violence or by stealth by forcing it to accept suicidal political solutions like the so called Right of Return..).

"famously urged Moscow to "tear down this wall": This one is a master stroke it elicits the idea of us (Reagan, the US and the Palestinian Arabs) and them (Israel and the Soviets). However it is a falsification of history: It was the Palestinians who were the staunch allies of the Soviets and Israel was vilified by the Soviets ..

And another thing which is wrong with it: The Berlin wall separated ONE people, the GERMAN people. Israel's wall separates two peoples: The Jewish nation and the Arab nation ...

"and to impose sanctions if it doesn't comply": This seems to be a recurring wet dream of the Palestinian Arabs and their motley assortment of supporters..

PS
I am getting frustrated with TIME magazine (I am one of their subscribers - for now). While I am not against seeing views opposed to mine but it seems to me that this magazine tends to, at least lately, publish ONLY views which are invariably critical of Israel and not in a fair way but by using subtle propaganda, not necessarily lies but distortions, half truths, ommissions and reporting without proper context. Such tactics are as good as lies especially if they use endless repetition to reinforce their message and never publishing alternative points of view.

[Mediocrates]

Planetologists want to run a wall across the entire Sahara to prevent desertification.

[ProZionist]

Here are some more tips about the barrier:

The places where the barier diverges from the green line are mostly due to two reasons:
- to enclose the largest settlements, which will in any case remain Israeli in an eventual treaty swap
- to prevent the barrier from being lower than the surrounding terrain, making Israeli patrols sitting ducks.

There are more than two dozen separation barriers world-wide, including one constructed by the UN and one under construction by Iran:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_barrier

[radioilluminati]

I could use some help with this site please.

There are people infiltrating it and they try to spread anti israeli propaganda. I believe they are agents of the New World Order that controles the mainstream media in the propaganda war against Israel.

The site needs some truth to expose all the lies the mainstream media says about Israel

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=4

I am not Jewish, Israeli or Christian by the way