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Thread: Muslim and Arab Self Critics

  1. #1
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    Muslim and Arab Self Critics

    I always believed that a sure sign for "seeing light at the end of the tunnel" will be once our antagonists too will be willing to look at themselves and be self critical (we sure do have our own share of critics from within). Well, while it's early days, I did come across the following Muslim and Arab critics who are doing a good job of "self examination" and criticism of the current Muslim and Arab culture. I think some already made made a good name for themselves while others are not as well known but I think they all do an important service for their own people and it's hopefully a good sign (or at least a start) for the rest of us as well: Here are a few links:

    http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/
    An extract:The Trouble with Islam Today is an open letter from me, a Muslim voice of reform, to concerned citizens worldwide -- Muslim and not. It's about why my faith community needs to come to terms with the diversity of ideas, beliefs and people in our universe, and why non-Muslims have a pivotal role in helping us get there.

    The themes I'm exploring with the utmost honesty include:

    the inferior treatment of women in Islam;
    the Jew-bashing that so many Muslims persistently engage in; and
    the continuing scourge of slavery in countries ruled by Islamic regimes.
    I appreciate that every faith has its share of literalists. Christians have their Evangelicals. Jews have the ultra-Orthodox. For God's sake, even Buddhists have fundamentalists.

    But what this book hammers home is that only in Islam is literalism mainstream.Which means that when abuse happens under the banner of Islam, most Muslims have no clue how to dissent, debate, revise or reform.

    Another link is:
    http://www.charityadvantage.com/sss/BRIGITTEGABRIEL.asp
    An Extract:Speaking as a native Arab and a professional journalist, Brigitte Gabriel offers a first hand account of her personal experiences in the opening salvos of Islamic Jihad towards the Western world in the Middle East.

    Ms. Gabriel grew up in South Lebanon as the only child of a retired Christian governing administrator of the region and a successful businessman. Her Arabic society, culture and media taught her that Israel and Jews were the devil. As she turned 10, war broke out pitting the combined forces of militant Moslems and Palestinians against the Christian Lebanese.

    In the Lebanon Civil War, Ms. Gabriel found herself in the first attack, beyond the Arab/Israel conflict, of Islamic Jihad against non-Moslems and the West. A barrage of Moslem rockets exploded in her house leaving her wounded and buried under the rubble. Her family lost everything and was forced to live the next seven years in an underground bomb shelter with little food, water or electricity.

    In 1982 Ms. Gabriel’s mother became seriously wounded; Israel was the only place to go for medical attention. For her mother, the trip to a hospital in Israel was a life-saving experience. For Brigitte it was a life changing-experience. She saw the Israelis demonstrate respect, humanity, compassion and generosity that she didn’t know existed beyond her immediate family.

    Ms. Gabriel realized she had been fed nothing but a fabricated lie for years by her government about the Jews and the Israeli people. She had to return to Lebanon to take care of her elderly parents but vowed that one day she would return to Israel. Brigitte kept that promise and more when she returned to Israel two years later and started working in Jerusalem as a journalist.

    And yet another Link is:
    http://www.noniedarwish.com/pages/745434/index.htm
    An Extract:Honest and in-depth analysis of current issues involving Mideast culture and politics from the perspective of a woman of Mideast descent. The point is not to criticize the religion of Islam, but rather to bring about understanding of the Mideast and encourage Arabs and Moslems to have open and mutually respectful dialogue without fear, oppression or retaliation. A religion is judged by the behavior of the people who practice it. It is up to Moslem/Arab people to seek either International respect or International fear of their Religion. There is a lot of silence from Arab/Moselms after 9/11 and little outrage. Ms. Darwish is not ashamed to express her dissapointment and anger over what happened by the very culture she grew up in. This is not disloyalty but love for her culture of origin. She realizes that many in the Mideast and Moslems in America need to do much honest soul-searching. Many need to recognize the magnitude of the horrific events of 9/11, and cease the denial of Arab/Muslim responsibility. Ms. Darwish cherishes her Mideast background but she will defend America and its Constitution as all US citizens should. She takes her pledge of allegiance to the US flag seriously. Nonie Darwish is a writer, former editor and translator. She was born and raised in the Middle East and lived in the USA for over two decades. She is married with 3 children.

    Nonie regularly gives speeches at universities and other venues. For booking

  2. #2
    Zlatorog
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    Somehow I don't like either. A video of Irshad I'm no expert in this, but here's the ugliest comment in Wikipedia

  3. #3
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    Why don't you like them Zlatorog ?

  4. #4
    Zlatorog
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reffo
    Why don't you like them Zlatorog ?
    Some of Irshad's statements are too ridiculous to be taken seriously. The same with Gabriel: When the Muslims and Palestinians declared Jihad on the Christians in 1975, they started massacring the Christians, city after city. I ended up living in a bomb shelter underground from age 10 to 17, without electricity, eating grass to live and crawling under sniper bullets to a spring to get water. My mother was wounded by a Muslim's shell and was taken into an Israeli hospital for treatment. When we entered the emergency room, I was shocked at what I saw. There were hundreds of people wounded - Muslims, Palestinians, Christian Lebanese and Israeli soldiers - lying on the floor. The doctors treated everyone according to their injury.

    I don't have time for this

  5. #5
    Ariksan
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    What is wrong with Gabriel's statement? This is how she was experiencing the war.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by zlatorog
    Some of Irshad's statements are too ridiculous to be taken seriously.
    Read her book and you will change your mind. She is actually not critical of Islam but she is critical of how many Muslims interpret and practice it today.

    Quote Originally Posted by zlatorog
    I don't have time for this
    I would hope that you make time to inform yourself. Otherwise, if you are not even willing to read a bit further, then you could be accused that your dismissal of what these women say is ill informed.

  7. #7
    Zlatorog
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    I have zero interest in these two, I already read the most retarded islamist website with threads like: An attack on a mosque - a Muslim one! I get to watch lots and lots of jihadist videos almost daily. Islam here however is extremely politicised and bureaucratic, with no scandals, although so far we've only got a jewish translation of the Koran. I don't consider Irshad to be capable of solving anything like this because from the start, she has no business in a country that traditionaly had no filth in the madressas. Even wahhabism there was strictly about wahhabism, with no room for anything else - I used to read that, but it was abolished in 98. In my opinion Irshad cooked a soup of pretty much everything and the only thing I can say is keep cooking.

    Muslims have to solve their own problems. Right now they should

    1. Keep Al Qaida out of Iraq
    2. Protest against the mistreatment of the Afgani refugees in Iran
    3. Stop the AIDS epidemics in Syria

  8. #8
    abdullah
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zlatorog
    so far we've only got a jewish translation of the Koran.
    Could anyone point me to this translation? I'd like to read it. I've read a number of other translations and would like a Jewish view to help form a better opinion.

  9. #9
    Formula
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    I'm personally never a fan of either self-critics. They usually do what they do and say what they say simply out of spite or for attention/money.

  10. #10
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    They may do it out of spite, to seek attention, to gain money or all of these reasons. If so, it still does not negate the message that they are saying which may or may not be valid. In my opinion, at least some of their messges appear to be valid but if you don't think so, it would be more logical for you to look at their messages and to dismiss these by logical arguments rather than by casting doubt on their motives. For example, one of Irshad's messages is that modern Islam is held back by the lack of self analysis and the tendency to blame external factors (Jews, Christians, Colonialism etc) for their problems. Instead, she advocates that true Islam does encourage self analysis and honesty (I think she calls this Itsjihad ?). What have you got to say about this message ? It certainly does not sound to be wrong to me.

  11. #11
    Zlatorog
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    Quote Originally Posted by abdullah
    Could anyone point me to this translation? I'd like to read it. I've read a number of other translations and would like a Jewish view to help form a better opinion.
    It was translated by a multitalented anthropologist, 3000 copies, 609 pages. One of our minorities is preparing their own.

  12. #12
    abdullah
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    But can you tell me the name and the author so I can obtain a copy?

  13. #13
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    There have been 4 Hebrew translations of the Quoran published in the last century. I remember reading that there was just recently a new one. You'd have to look.

  14. #14
    Cato
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    You guys should read Irshad Manji's book.

  15. #15
    Marjeyoun
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reffo

    Another link is:
    http://www.charityadvantage.com/sss/BRIGITTEGABRIEL.asp
    An Extract:Speaking as a native Arab and a professional journalist, Brigitte Gabriel offers a first hand account of her personal experiences in the opening salvos of Islamic Jihad towards the Western world in the Middle East.

    Ms. Gabriel grew up in South Lebanon as the only child of a retired Christian governing administrator of the region and a successful businessman. Her Arabic society, culture and media taught her that Israel and Jews were the devil. As she turned 10, war broke out pitting the combined forces of militant Moslems and Palestinians against the Christian Lebanese.

    In the Lebanon Civil War, Ms. Gabriel found herself in the first attack, beyond the Arab/Israel conflict, of Islamic Jihad against non-Moslems and the West. A barrage of Moslem rockets exploded in her house leaving her wounded and buried under the rubble. Her family lost everything and was forced to live the next seven years in an underground bomb shelter with little food, water or electricity.

    In 1982 Ms. Gabriel’s mother became seriously wounded; Israel was the only place to go for medical attention. For her mother, the trip to a hospital in Israel was a life-saving experience. For Brigitte it was a life changing-experience. She saw the Israelis demonstrate respect, humanity, compassion and generosity that she didn’t know existed beyond her immediate family.

    Ms. Gabriel realized she had been fed nothing but a fabricated lie for years by her government about the Jews and the Israeli people. She had to return to Lebanon to take care of her elderly parents but vowed that one day she would return to Israel. Brigitte kept that promise and more when she returned to Israel two years later and started working in Jerusalem as a journalist.
    Brigitte is GREAT


    Her Website is

    http://www.americancongressfortruth.com/

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